Use of deadly force

[chuck71]

No, I was just wondering if $500 was worth a human life to him. Or if it was a thousand or a couple of thousand. It was not spin just getting directly to the point. and this post really aint spin either, it just makes no sense.

:mrgreen: What about when he says "My house is insured, so I cannot defend it, or my family in it?

 

[chuck71]

nah, just a lot of people that will not leave the world as a victim, unlike yourself.

:mrgreen: Why couldn't you have made that statement, leaving out the jibe, unlike yourself. It would have been so much better.

 

[CanadaJohn]

:mrgreen: Canada, What do you mean when you say "Since we're not talking about legal rights here" (partial quote)? Do you mean in Canada or in the U.S.A? In the U.S.A "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" implies you can use your gun to defend your life. I realize that gun control laws try to nullify that, but the Framers intended self defense. There's an old saying "I'd rather walk into a courtroom under the power of my own legs and feet and explain to 12 men and women why I used a gun to successfully defend my life, then be carried out of a church under the power of six pallbearers because I didn't have my gun when I needed it to save my life. I too, would be haunted if I killed someone when wounding or scaring would have sufficed.

I don't disagree with you - when I was saying, "since we're not talking about legal rights here" I was referring to the premise in the OP where the author asked "regardless of the law", so I was responding, regardless of the law, just from a personal perspective.

 

[mak2]

Did you read my post? I was trying to determine the dollar amount he placed on human life. Apparently it is about the same as his deductible. The not being able to defend his house/family was a pretty mindless strawman.

:mrgreen: What about when he says "My house is insured, so I cannot defend it, or my family in it?

 

[ttwtt78640]

:mrgreen: Then you're defending your means of livelihood as well as your tools.

Exactly. I actually know people that value their motorcycle more than they do their girlfriend. The best advice that I can give folks is do not mess with other people or their property, you never know how likely they are to protect either themselves or their property.

 

[mak2]

I really like my bicycle, if I see someone attempting to steal it, should I just shoot them?

Exactly. I actually know people that value their motorcycle more than they do their girlfriend. The best advice that I can give folks is do not mess with other people or their property, you never know how likely they are to protect either themselves or their property.

 

[chuck71]

The John Wayne comment is in regards to the blase attitude to taking another's life. The person I was responding to was talking about the gravity of taking another life.

Not sure how you got the idea that my post was targeted at the act of self defense.

:mrgreen: In fairness to 'The Duke', In his movies he usually had a good reason for taking another's life. I don't buy the 'blasé attitude' thing. Your post is NOT targeted at the act of self defense.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I really like my bicycle, if I see someone attempting to steal it, should I just shoot them?

Maybe say stop first, to be sure not damage the bicycle too much.

 

[mak2]

Goodness.

Maybe say stop first, to be sure not damage the bicycle too much.

 

[chuck71]

In Washington State as someone walks onto my property they are trespassing and I have the legal right to shoot them.

:mrgreen: They don't have to be intending harm to you? What if they just got lost, or are a 9 year old child. Washington state seems kinda harsh.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Exactly. I actually know people that value their motorcycle more than they do their girlfriend.

Probably because a motorcycle never says you can't ride today honey.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Probably because a motorcycle never says you can't ride today honey.

He would let you take his girlfriend for a test ride (if you paid his bar tab), but never his mototrcycle.

 

[chuck71]

Depends on what "menacing" is. If they cross that line and you feel threatened...you are justified and likely won't be arrested. Especially if they have the means and motive to carry out violence.

One thing is for certain. If you threaten someone when they are at their home...you deserve no sympathy for getting shot.

:mrgreen: By "menacing" I mean what you mean: "If you threaten me and I feel fear for my life or the life of my family".

 

[windowdressing]

I agree. If someone is in my house, I dont know them and I cannot tell if they are armed or not, shoot them. How bout if they are standing on my front porch looking mean?

I'd say no to the front porch. Think for a moment one of your children going to a friend's house, but can't find it and ends up on someone's front porch lost and they look mean or threatening to the person in the house ... O.K. to shoot?

 

[ttwtt78640]

:mrgreen: In Florida, if you shot someone 'menacing' in your back yard, would the police arrest you?

If he looked like Obama's son, then yes.

 

[windowdressing]

I really like my bicycle, if I see someone attempting to steal it, should I just shoot them?

normally, or at least there was a time, that you couldn't shoot someone for stealing your bike if they weren't trying to run you over with it ...

 

[CanadaJohn]

He would let you take his girlfriend for a test ride (if you paid his bar tab), but never his mototrcycle.

After he rides his motorcycle all day, she never asks if she can borrow his credit card to do a little shopping.

 

[chuck71]

I don't disagree with you - when I was saying, "since we're not talking about legal rights here" I was referring to the premise in the OP where the author asked "regardless of the law", so I was responding, regardless of the law, just from a personal perspective.

:mrgreen: I gotta go back and re-read your post, but I think were cool.

 

[ttwtt78640]

After he rides his motorcycle all day, she never asks if she can borrow his credit card to do a little shopping.

You only have to feed a motorcycle when you ride it.

 

[chuck71]

Did you read my post? I was trying to determine the dollar amount he placed on human life. Apparently it is about the same as his deductible. The not being able to defend his house/family was a pretty mindless strawman.

:mrgreen: We may have to agree to disagree, but I think the point he's making is that His life and His family's lives are PRICELESS!

 

[chuck71]

Exactly. I actually know people that value their motorcycle more than they do their girlfriend. The best advice that I can give folks is do not mess with other people or their property, you never know how likely they are to protect either themselves or their property.

:mrgreen: you definitely have a right to defend your property, even if it's a 20 dollar watch your Father left you in his Will. The sentimental value is worth far more than $20.

 

[chuck71]

I really like my bicycle, if I see someone attempting to steal it, should I just shoot them?

:mrgreen: I think He's saying that when you attempt to steal from someone you never really know what their disposition is inside. I'm damn sure not gonna try and steal a motorcycle belonging to a 'Hells Angel'!

 

[SMTA]

No, you do not. The standards for a "credible threat" are pretty common to most states and well known. There has to be jeopardy behavior or an indication of intent, plus the ability and opportunity to carry out the threat or apparent threat.

A few years ago I knew a fellow who shot a gasoline thief dead in his yard. The guy had a screwdriver in his hand, acted aggressive, moved forward.... bam, one shot, dead on scene. Homeowner not charged nor taken into custody.

Other than my house, with family in it, I personally don't believe in killing over property.

I believing in stopping any threat towards me or my family.

I will continue to shoot until the threat stops being a threat.

Being disabled and unable to move quickly also adds a different perspective, as flight is not possible for me.

I prepare myself according to these simple rules.

A screwdriver, a rock, or even physical menacing with fists count as threatening in my book.

 

[chuck71]

If he looked like Obama's son, then yes.

:mrgreen: Your talking Trayvon right? And they DID arrest George!

 

[CRUE CAB]

:mrgreen: In Florida, if you shot someone 'menacing' in your back yard, would the police arrest you?

Nope, not if you felt that your life was in danger. Now if they were on the other side of a fence or were of a size that a threat was not possible. Then you may have more serious questions coming your way.