US Urges Beijing to Cease Its Military Coercion (Barrage) Against Taiwan - Is This an 'Act of War' Against Taiwan by Beijing?

[jdog]

Guys who attempt sex with goats are nuts!!! Goats w/horns would be dangerous to wrangle and penetrate with a flaying dingus in the wind! I'd not want my vulnerable and precious ding dong (or any part of my body) horned by those maniac goats! I say - leave them the hell alone as they're intended to be.

Yeah, once upon a time, our great nation decided to hook China up to our economy - they prospered like the fast spread of COVID-19 and the rest is history. We borrowed big time from China. Now, China's military and nuclear threat is real. But, after playing peace ball with China for so many years decades, their ego has become inflated like a beach ball. So much, they've not only decided to smack little Taiwan (S korea and Japan as well) around, but have also set out to control shipping/fishing boats in the Indo Pacific. They absolutely don't treat their own select population well either. Things went downhill between the US and China during 2020 and it's truly not getting any better.

I can agree that it won't be pretty if a full scale war breaks out between the West and China + ?. My hope is that a diplomatic solution takes place bringing China to behave beyond its borders. If not, then I hope that an inevitable small conflict (on one of the unpopulated islands if possible) may only last a couple of weeks that would then bring China and the West to the table with open hands ready to shake on a peace deal that benefits all concerned. Unfortunately, we're at a point in living history where something man made ugly will happen. It's simply difficult for me to believe that all will remain harmlessly good heading into the near future. This planet has collectively fallen down (again) post WWII collectively banging our heads causing serious brain damage known as the norm today. Yeah, all the while chanting "Go nuclear, baby!" China's been waiting and wanting its chance to rule from the top. So, here we are.

Unfortunately, we find ourselves staring right down the barrel of a 4th turning, and there has not been a 4th turning in the past 250 years that has not included major war. WW2, the Civil War, and the Revolutionary War have all been 4th turnings, and they have all involved wars where our status as a nation was at stake. This will probably be no different. It is a good time to be an old man...

 

[Tangmo]

What is clear is that the US Government has sold out to China long ago, and that we are now powerless to do anything to oppose them. Hell, we just got run out of Afghanistan by a bunch of men who have sex with goats...

What's worse is the Chinese have sex with one another.

It keeps continuous the thousands year unbroken chain of stupidity.

Chinese never change from a dictatorship because they never learn from their mistakes. Uneducable is the term used in Western education circles. Every century in China is Groundhog Century. Indeed, every dynasty has failed.

The fatal error is that when the going gets tough as is occurring now throughout the CCP economy they give more power to the emperor and his wrecking crew. With more power and authority the people mucking up the works proceed to run the place into the ground. Then the next gang of idiots moves in to rinse and repeat. Hell, it's a dead giveaway CCP-PRC are there now that Xi Jinping has become emperor for life. Xi had already become commander & chief. And so on.

The bottom line in the present times is that the only thing more dangerous than a rising China is a falling China.

October 1st was the National Day of the PRC that was founded by the CCP in 1949 hence the madcap swarm of military aircraft around Taiwan that Chinese across the mainland are eating right up. Chinese can't get enough of it. They want Xi to seize something somewhere and Xi knows this acutely. Methinks he's going to have to make a move very soon to satisfy the mass thirst to assert the power the population perceives China as having.

 

[Tangmo]

Pres Biden has issued a statement to confirm that if Beijing takes a military dump on anything Japan, the US military will respond. (<- My words).

I mentioned yesterday that I would present a question to our active participants here. Because of our commitment(s) to Taiwan, Beijing's very aggressive activity in, near or over Taiwan territories and the US's own occasional presence (Naval/Aircraft) in the Taiwan Strait and near or possible over Taiwan territories, doesn't that suggest that if a 'physical confrontation' breaks out between Taiwan or China, that the US military will be there? Or, if a 'physical confrontation breaks out between the US and China lets say on or near or over one of China's real or fabricated islands, COULD THE US REQUEST TAIWANESE MILITARY ASSISTANCE AT THAT TIME? I almost want to answer that myself with a yes, but knowing that it's not been agreed to on paper that the US and Taiwan militaries are allowed to fight side by side against a common foe, I wonder if there's a 'maybe so' piece of paper that would allow that military cooperation to take place in case of an emergency?

Joe Biden Vows to Defend Senkaku Islands If Attacked by China

www.msn.com

John Feng 6 hrs ago

Joe Biden became the third American president to publicly pledge to defend the disputed Senkaku Islands on Monday, as Japan adapts to an alarming increase in Chinese government vessels in and around the islets in the East China Sea.




Guess what this means to me? If there's not enough agreed documentation that allows the US military to fight side by side with the Taiwanese military, then whatever conflict that may break out between the US and China over the Senkaku Islands, that Japanese territorial 'spillover' may open the door for Taiwan and the US to join forces.

Of course the U.S. isn't going to want any kind of military assistance or support by Taiwan nor does it need any. Nor would Taiwan want to do any such thing. It would be unnecessarily provocative to CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing. The Boyz might sever diplomatic relations for a while (before eventually restoring 'em).

It's radical enough the U.S. has for the first time invited Taiwan to the U.S. sponsored biannual Rim of the Pacific largest international nava/airl exercises of the world, off Hawaii and southern California while disinviting Beijing. This is excellent for Taiwan for numerous reasons, one being Taiwan military leaders and commanders can establish first contacts with the military leaders and commanders of the two dozen nations that participate and also team up with the 50 or so ships that engage in the exercises. Nearly everyone in Taiwan leadership both civilian and military is fluent in English; likewise for Japan, SK, Phils, Thailand and so on and so on.

The Senkaku is an easy one for a Potus so we can check that box and move along. Australia former PM Tony Abbott arrived in Taiwan the other day as perhaps the final link to Taiwan joining the TPP that Japan is leader of since Trump withdrew USA from it despite it being a USA initiative. Biden won't participate either, mostly because organized labor is against it along with a huge mass of unorganized labor, so that's that for the U.S. and TPP. TPP is very likely to tell Beijing it's lost all possibility of being accepted as a member, given especially the new idea in the West is to isolate Beijing rather than continue to pursue the impossible, ie, to integrate Beijing into the global system.

Australian intelligence btw believes Xi will move to seize an outer islet of the Pratas islets but not Pratas itself, leaving that for a later date. Beijing is refocused on Pratas for a couple of reasons. One, it's strategically located at the Bashi Channel between Taiwan and the Phils that is the only direct route the PLA Navy South Fleet at Hainan island has to the open western Pacific; South Fleet is the largest of the PLAN three fleets. Related is that Beijing needs Pratas because it's accepted that U.S. will stop Beijing occupying Scarborough Shoal in the Phils EEZ off Luzon and Manila which Beijing needed to do to close its still open SCS triangle of the Paracel islands off VN and the Spratlys off Indonesia down south. Beijing taking the Pratas up in the northeast would indeed close the CCP triangle in the SCS so I doubt very very much the U.S. would accept it. If the U.S. won't accept Beijing seizing and possessing Scarborough, it certainly won't accept Beijing possessing Pratas. Neither is the U.S. going to change on this.

 

[ouch]

Unfortunately, we find ourselves staring right down the barrel of a 4th turning, and there has not been a 4th turning in the past 250 years that has not included major war. WW2, the Civil War, and the Revolutionary War have all been 4th turnings, and they have all involved wars where our status as a nation was at stake. This will probably be no different. It is a good time to be an old man...

"This" has all the markings of a possible ending of all things normal known to civilized man. It's been suspected for several decades that a WWIII will conclude what ignorance and greed brings. However, when you speak of a 4th Turning that points my attention and concern to the divide occurring in our country that DJT has excellerated for the purpose of chaos and suffrage that supports dictatorial power - his. Because of such a diabolical plan, this 'plan' has dangerous elements in our society with further intentions to congregate and collaborate with said insane individual who seeks endless power all with desires to excommunicate approximately one half part of the divide to cement the actions of a dictator. His. Resistance will be expected that brings considerable damage and harm to those vulnerable in this civil unrest and possibly war within our borders. Famine and disease will play it's role in this deliberate unrest.

As I just described what's probably ahead for US citizens in the not to far off future, the Taiwanese are faced with a similar dilemma. A dictatorial country from which they have separated themselves to be independent and free of is close to bombing them to Hell and back. Even with such a sizable Taiwanese military force to inflict substancial damage on China during the invasion, the Taiwanese will sink into severe struggle for its own life and existence on their home island. Of course, we expect US / UK military forces to intervene at some point of the invasion, but to what degree we simply don't know. To try to get aid to the Taiwanese. How successful will that be? Again, unknown. Since the US is struggling with its own problems and possible an earlier than expected civil unrest that may require our own military to help out with, to some degree, Taiwan's fate is faced with a possible 'turning' moment. To remain free and maybe die or surrender to the dictatorial rule of China to do as they say but possibly live. Upon that point in time in Taiwan's dilemma, their divide may face fighting each other during that decision to stay free or be ruled over - 'til death do us part.

 

[ouch]

Of course the U.S. isn't going to want any kind of military assistance or support by Taiwan nor does it need any. Nor would Taiwan want to do any such thing. It would be unnecessarily provocative to CCP DictatorTyrants in Beijing. The Boyz might sever diplomatic relations for a while (before eventually restoring 'em).

It's radical enough the U.S. has for the first time invited Taiwan to the U.S. sponsored biannual Rim of the Pacific largest international nava/airl exercises of the world, off Hawaii and southern California while disinviting Beijing. This is excellent for Taiwan for numerous reasons, one being Taiwan military leaders and commanders can establish first contacts with the military leaders and commanders of the two dozen nations that participate and also team up with the 50 or so ships that engage in the exercises. Nearly everyone in Taiwan leadership both civilian and military is fluent in English; likewise for Japan, SK, Phils, Thailand and so on and so on.

The Senkaku is an easy one for a Potus so we can check that box and move along. Australia former PM Tony Abbott arrived in Taiwan the other day as perhaps the final link to Taiwan joining the TPP that Japan is leader of since Trump withdrew USA from it despite it being a USA initiative. Biden won't participate either, mostly because organized labor is against it along with a huge mass of unorganized labor, so that's that for the U.S. and TPP. TPP is very likely to tell Beijing it's lost all possibility of being accepted as a member, given especially the new idea in the West is to isolate Beijing rather than continue to pursue the impossible, ie, to integrate Beijing into the global system.

I am guilty about forgetting about Australia's role in this high stakes chess game taking place between Taipei and Beijing - Taipei and Tokyo concerning military strategies and economics. Further understanding Pres Biden's role in this as well. Recently, he's announced our stance that if Beijing doesn't back the hell off or God forbid, China strikes Taiwan, the US military will more than likely make the leap into the mix in the S China Sea and Taiwan Strait. Of course I hope like Hell Biden pushes more for diplomacy over the iron fist. If the iron fist is the only option, than so-be-it.

Australian intelligence btw believes Xi will move to seize an outer islet of the Pratas islets but not Pratas itself, leaving that for a later date. Beijing is refocused on Pratas for a couple of reasons. One, it's strategically located at the Bashi Channel between Taiwan and the Phils that is the only direct route the PLA Navy South Fleet at Hainan island has to the open western Pacific; South Fleet is the largest of the PLAN three fleets. Related is that Beijing needs Pratas because it's accepted that U.S. will stop Beijing occupying Scarborough Shoal in the Phils EEZ off Luzon and Manila which Beijing needed to do to close its still open SCS triangle of the Paracel islands off VN and the Spratlys off Indonesia down south. Beijing taking the Pratas up in the northeast would indeed close the CCP triangle in the SCS so I doubt very very much the U.S. would accept it. If the U.S. won't accept Beijing seizing and possessing Scarborough, it certainly won't accept Beijing possessing Pratas. Neither is the U.S. going to change on this.

It would be pretty much a certainty that (if) once Beijing occupies Scarborough and that piece of Pratas islet, there would be a meeting of Western warships and fighter jets with Beijings'. Once again, I ponder what, if any, would it be proper to bring the Taiwanese Marines along for the bang 'em up party. My answer would be yes but not sure what the rule books state, when an adversary's military presence goes this far by, first, sticking that toe in the water. I've yet to read or hear anything about it being acceptably legit that the Taiwanese military is allowed to actively join the US military in any actions against a similar foe. Any thought on that matter?

 

[Higgins86]

The United States is "concerned."

The United States "urges."

Whoa!

Those dyed-hair tyrants must be shaking in their boots at such tough talk.

If we had a real President and a real Congress, China would be told in private (so that they do not lose face) to stop it, or the United States would take vigorous action, such as recognizing Taiwan as an independent nation.

Bullies -- whether they be nations or common predators that prowl our city streets 24/7 -- understand only one thing: the iron fist.

Your last president sat down and legitimized an unhinged dictator from a hermit nation.

 

[danielpalos]

It's clear what's taking place over Taiwan. This activity in Taiwan's air space is increasing. By all rights, isn't this an act of war and eventually, if not very soon, should Taiwan try to peacefully guide one or two of China's fighter jets to land (doubt said fighter jets would cooperate) or simply down one or two of those fighter jets? Is this too irrational and dangerous to attempt? Will it spark war between Taiwan and China? While on that subject, isn't that the intentions of Beijing too have a physical war with Taiwan by this time?

US concerned by China military jets near Taiwan

"The United States is very concerned by... China's provocative military activity near Taiwan, which is destabilizing, risks miscalculations and undermines regional peace and stability," the US state department said.

"We urge Beijing to cease its military, diplomatic and economic pressure and coercion against Taiwan."

On Saturday, a total of 39 Chinese military jets flew into the same area in two waves during the day and evening. It was the largest incursion by Beijing to date.

On Friday, four H-6 bombers, which can carry nuclear weapons, and an anti-submarine aircraft were among the 38 that flew in two waves over the course of the day.

We should upgrade Taiwan's economy so they reunite with the mainland on better economic terms.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I give it a year before Taiwan falls.

 

[ouch]

We should upgrade Taiwan's economy so they reunite with the mainland on better economic terms.

Sounds good but wouldn't that encompass the will of the Taiwanese to accept living under a Pres Xi rule and other rulers who follow Xi's place after he leaves or dies? So far since 1949, the Taiwanese have decided to reject living under China's rule.

 

[Tangmo]

I give it a year before Taiwan falls.

We should upgrade Taiwan's economy so they reunite with the mainland on better economic terms.

You guyz must be French or something like that.

A part of 21st century Vichy America.

Gen. Milley is the most feared U.S. general since Patton.

Low probability of China trying to seize Taiwan in near term, says top US general​

Reuters​

WASHINGTON—The top US general said on Thursday there was a low probability that China would try to take over Taiwan militarily in the near-term as Beijing has some way to go to develop the capabilities needed. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley told lawmakers that while Taiwan was still a core national interest of China, "there's little intent right now, or motivation, to do it militarily. There's no reason to do it militarily, and they know that. So, I think the probability is probably low, in the immediate, near-term future," Milley said during a Congressional hearing.

"My assessment in terms of capability, I think China has a ways to go to develop the actual, no-kidding capability to conduct military operations to seize through military means the entire island of Taiwan, if they wanted to do that," he added. The United States is Taiwan's strongest international backer and main source of arms, which angers China. Democratic and Republican members of the U.S. House of Representatives will introduce legislation this week seeking to boost U.S. support for Taiwan, part of an effort in Congress to take a hard line in dealings with China. NATO leaders, encouraged by U.S. President Joe Biden, warned at a summit on Monday that China presents “systemic challenges,” taking a more forceful stance towards Beijing.

Low probability of China trying to seize Taiwan in near term, says top US general

The United States is Taiwan's strongest international backer and main source of arms, which angers China.

news.abs-cbn.com

The strategy of the West toward China has changed toward the negative, beginning rather mildly and to a limited extent during Obama's second term. Trump came on to stiffarm Beijing with hard hitting tariffs and a proliferation of restrictions on technology that drove many firms to Third World economies in SE Asia and Africa to also include Mexico. The West is in agreement with Biden -- who has retained nearly all of Trump's hits against Beijing -- that the only realistic approach toward the CCP-PRC is to isolate it. And to begin seriously to integrate Taiwan into the extant global system.

Taiwan rejects absolutely integrating with the mainland by any means, of becoming subjects under its overbearing dictators and becoming a part of its feeble minded yet willful population that's been closed to world civilization for 5000 years.

 

[Grand Mal]

Nobody is going to do anything until a decision is made with regard to how to blame this whole thing on Trump. Once the Biden administration has that sorted out and has the media firmly in line (unlike the way they handled Afghanistan) they will notify China that it's OK to take Taiwan.

We're too busy coming up with ways to blame you on Trump.

 

[Lutherf]

We're too busy coming up with ways to blame you on Trump.

Like I said, all our allies can go suck an egg as long as we can blame whatever happens to them on Trump. Biden has the situation well in hand!!

 

[Grand Mal]

Like I said, all our allies can go suck an egg as long as we can blame whatever happens to them on Trump. Biden has the situation well in hand!!

Ally? Taiwan? Yeah, right. Such a firm ally that you don't even recognize their sovereignty for fear of pissing off the PRC.
"We don't support your right to be a country, we just want continued access to your cheap-labour industrial production."

 

[Lutherf]

Ally? Taiwan? Yeah, right. Such a firm ally that you don't even recognize their sovereignty for fear of pissing off the PRC.
"We don't support your right to be a country, we just want continued access to your cheap-labour industrial production."

I guess you're right. **** 'em. The world needs a lot less freedom and a lot more control anyway. Communism, baby, it's what's for dinner!!

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I guess you're right. **** 'em. The world needs a lot less freedom and a lot more control anyway. Communism, baby, it's what's for dinner!!

China is not communist anymore.

Private companies do not exist under communism and China has plenty of private companies.

The growth in China was driven by the profit motive. They all wanted to get rich or have others die trying ( ie pollution, producing milk with melamine to artificially increase protein content, make rebar thinner to make more money)

 

[Grand Mal]

I guess you're right. **** 'em. The world needs a lot less freedom and a lot more control anyway. Communism, baby, it's what's for dinner!!

Too bad for Tibet that they don't produce anything more valuable than yak butter and felt yurts.

 

[Lutherf]

China is not communist anymore.

Private companies do not exist under communism and China has plenty of private companies.

The growth in China was driven by the profit motive. They all wanted to get rich or have others die trying ( ie pollution, producing milk with melamine to artificially increase protein content, make rebar thinner to make more money)

Which is why we need to allow them to do whatever they want with Taiwan!!! Now I understand. Thank you so much.

 

[Loulit01]

Let's remember that we flew spy planes over the USSR, and anywhere else we wanted including over our allies, without telling anyone anything. Until Gary Powers, anyway. We still fly spy planes, including modified U2s.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Which is why we need to allow them to do whatever they want with Taiwan!!! Now I understand. Thank you so much.

I did not say that, all I said is that it is not communist anymore. It is more like Taiwan prior to 1990

 

[danielpalos]

Sounds good but wouldn't that encompass the will of the Taiwanese to accept living under a Pres Xi rule and other rulers who follow Xi's place after he leaves or dies? So far since 1949, the Taiwanese have decided to reject living under China's rule.

Not if they re-united on better capital terms. Economics matters.

 

[Loulit01]

Not if they re-united on better capital terms. Economics matters.

Hong Kong was reunited under better capital terms. How did that work out?

 

[danielpalos]

Hong Kong was reunited under better capital terms. How did that work out?

Hong Kong did not keep the nationalist flag. We can proclaim Taiwan is simply better at capitalism.

 

[ouch]

You guyz must be French or something like that.

A part of 21st century Vichy America.

Gen. Milley is the most feared U.S. general since Patton.

Low probability of China trying to seize Taiwan in near term, says top US general​

Reuters​

WASHINGTON—The top US general said on Thursday there was a low probability that China would try to take over Taiwan militarily in the near-term as Beijing has some way to go to develop the capabilities needed. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley told lawmakers that while Taiwan was still a core national interest of China, "there's little intent right now, or motivation, to do it militarily. There's no reason to do it militarily, and they know that. So, I think the probability is probably low, in the immediate, near-term future," Milley said during a Congressional hearing.

"My assessment in terms of capability, I think China has a ways to go to develop the actual, no-kidding capability to conduct military operations to seize through military means the entire island of Taiwan, if they wanted to do that," he added. The United States is Taiwan's strongest international backer and main source of arms, which angers China. Democratic and Republican members of the U.S. House of Representatives will introduce legislation this week seeking to boost U.S. support for Taiwan, part of an effort in Congress to take a hard line in dealings with China. NATO leaders, encouraged by U.S. President Joe Biden, warned at a summit on Monday that China presents “systemic challenges,” taking a more forceful stance towards Beijing.

Low probability of China trying to seize Taiwan in near term, says top US general

The United States is Taiwan's strongest international backer and main source of arms, which angers China.

news.abs-cbn.com

The strategy of the West toward China has changed toward the negative, beginning rather mildly and to a limited extent during Obama's second term. Trump came on to stiffarm Beijing with hard hitting tariffs and a proliferation of restrictions on technology that drove many firms to Third World economies in SE Asia and Africa to also include Mexico. The West is in agreement with Biden -- who has retained nearly all of Trump's hits against Beijing -- that the only realistic approach toward the CCP-PRC is to isolate it. And to begin seriously to integrate Taiwan into the extant global system.

Taiwan rejects absolutely integrating with the mainland by any means, of becoming subjects under its overbearing dictators and becoming a part of its feeble minded yet willful population that's been closed to world civilization for 5000 years.

That report and another one this evening has me feeling a lot better. Pres Biden is to speak with Xi within the next 11 to 12 weeks. I'd feel much better if it were within the next 2 weeks, but at least some talks are scheduled fairly soon.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Loulit01]

Hong Kong did not keep the nationalist flag. We can proclaim Taiwan is simply better at capitalism.

How man troops come with that proclamation?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Hong Kong did not keep the nationalist flag. We can proclaim Taiwan is simply better at capitalism.

Actually

The UK had leased land from China, which reverted back to China in 1999. That leased land was pretty much mandatory to keep Hong Kong viable as a city, providing the water, the airport for Hong Kong. China was not going to accept any extension on that lease. The UK would have had to spend billions each year to keep Hong Kong from collapsing. So instead it made the deal to return the island of Hong Kong which was not part of the lease back to China.

Taiwan was not part of a foreign country and was founded by the former leader of China.