US Post Office.....what is really going on?

[specklebang]

The USPS in absolutely useless. Your medicines can come by FedEx or UPS or DHL or ????. I try not to order anything that goes USPS because they tend to just leave a notice and then I have to drive to the Post Office cleverly located 1/4 mile from the street entry and 8 lanes to cross over to get there - a death-defying adventure.

Sure, its cool that you can send a letter 4000 miles for 46¢ but as a business model? If a letter was $2.00 they could stay in business.

If ever an organization's business model was a piece of crap, it's the USPS. It's going to go the way of the dinosaur, just not fast enough. With electronic delivery, we don't even NEED first class mail. The only thing they're going to be delivering shortly is junk -- which no one wants anyway.

Just imagine a system where a guy walks his route on the sidewalk, lugging crap in a pouch -- walking up and down the steps at every house placing mail in a mail box fastened to the wall of each house's porch. Then walking back to his truck or a deposit box to pick up another pouchful. How absolutely ridiculous.

I hate it too, but it's an easy process.

Put strait into recycle anything that is presort standard. Just keep the first class.

Some of these people depend on getting medicine packages through the mail.

No, it doesn't work, except for maybe some low volume mailings. It ends up being more costly for the senders of large volume. The USPS allows companies to blanket a carrier route cheaper than they used to. To remove addresses is now more costly.

 

[Mason66]

The USPS in absolutely useless. Your medicines can come by FedEx or UPS or DHL or ????. I try not to order anything that goes USPS because they tend to just leave a notice and then I have to drive to the Post Office cleverly located 1/4 mile from the street entry and 8 lanes to cross over to get there - a death-defying adventure.

Sure, its cool that you can send a letter 4000 miles for 46¢ but as a business model? If a letter was $2.00 they could stay in business.

If the post office goes away there will be no way to send a package internationally.

Compare the prices of the USPS with Fed Ex or UPS for international packages.

There is no comparison.

 

[specklebang]

Correct. No comparison. That's why USPS loses money and UPS and FedEx make money.

As far as I know, you can send a package anywhere in the world by UPS and FedEx. But I take your point. Maybe USPS just needs to charge more money for their services?

If the post office goes away there will be no way to send a package internationally.

Compare the prices of the USPS with Fed Ex or UPS for international packages.

There is no comparison.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Correct. No comparison. That's why USPS loses money and UPS and FedEx make money.

As far as I know, you can send a package anywhere in the world by UPS and FedEx. But I take your point. Maybe USPS just needs to charge more money for their services?

Do you know what you are saying?

The USPS isn't designed to make a profit...

I forget which table, but if you go to the OMB website, one of those tables has the USPS in it. Any revenue the USPS makes, goes into the government coffers. The current losses, aren't really losses, because they are payments for future benefits.

I believe that congress conspired to get this 75 year prepayment in for employees, knowing that future improvements in efficiency will cut the workforce of the USPS. Now they have all this extra revenue to spend as they please, that retirees will never get to use.

 

[Mason66]

Correct. No comparison. That's why USPS loses money and UPS and FedEx make money.

As far as I know, you can send a package anywhere in the world by UPS and FedEx. But I take your point. Maybe USPS just needs to charge more money for their services?

Those of us that use the international service are footing the bill for everyone else.

The médium flat rate box used to be around $40.00 it is now up above $60.00 and that happened in a short amount of time. I am sure it will keep going up too as the USPS needs to find a way to get into the black.

 

[Henrin]

That's great you don't need it but others do. Since it doesn't cost you, assuming you don't buy stamps, what's the exact problem?

That I still get service when I don't desire it for what appears to be for the exact reason that I hate the service. If I could opt-out of postal service I would be very happy.

 

[ocean515]

Do you know what you are saying?

The USPS isn't designed to make a profit...

I forget which table, but if you go to the OMB website, one of those tables has the USPS in it. Any revenue the USPS makes, goes into the government coffers. The current losses, aren't really losses, because they are payments for future benefits.

I believe that congress conspired to get this 75 year prepayment in for employees, knowing that future improvements in efficiency will cut the workforce of the USPS. Now they have all this extra revenue to spend as they please, that retirees will never get to use.

The GAO studied the prepayment issue and determined there was no prepayment issue involved.

Here is a link to their report.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/585739.pdf

 

[Henrin]

You have never recieved anything through the mail from a purchase on EBay?

No, I haven't. I have never actually done business with EBay. I have absolutely no interest in getting spam mail and from I hear they do a damn good job of that.

 

[Mason66]

That I still get service when I don't desire it for what appears to be for the exact reason that I hate the service. If I could opt-out of postal service I would be very happy.

I am having a Sienfeld flashback.

 

[Captain Adverse]

How could you guys even THINK of eliminating the Postal Service!!! Don't you realize how important it is????




We need The Postman. I am ashamed of your un-American attitudes. :usflag2:

LOL

 

[specklebang]

OK Gentlemen, one of you is probably right. But who and in what way, I don't know.

The USPS really is an outdated model. Would we start a USPS today, as either a business or government service? I seriously doubt it.

Once upon a time, starting with the Pony Express, the delivery of mail across the nation was a cohesive force, a part of the UNITED States. Today, with the advent of computers, email and cell phones, ot barely serves any important purpose.

What percentage of people send out international packages? What percentage of people receive their medications by USPS because there is no UPS service? I'll guess, not much. Yet the USPS attrempts to function as if this was 1953, not 2013. The services could be wrapped into UPS (or similar) or USPS could charge more, deliver less (Saturday?) and centralize stations.

If I were in charge of winding down USPS (I'm not - don't worry) I would turn parts of it over to private enterprise with the condition that they employ some of the USPS workers, do this gradually, and raise the price of a letter to $1.00. If you worry about keeping this antiquated service, then I propose a tax of .01¢ per email to subsidize it - might cut back on spam at the same time.

Do you know what you are saying?

The USPS isn't designed to make a profit...

I forget which table, but if you go to the OMB website, one of those tables has the USPS in it. Any revenue the USPS makes, goes into the government coffers. The current losses, aren't really losses, because they are payments for future benefits.

I believe that congress conspired to get this 75 year prepayment in for employees, knowing that future improvements in efficiency will cut the workforce of the USPS. Now they have all this extra revenue to spend as they please, that retirees will never get to use.

Those of us that use the international service are footing the bill for everyone else.

The médium flat rate box used to be around $40.00 it is now up above $60.00 and that happened in a short amount of time. I am sure it will keep going up too as the USPS needs to find a way to get into the black.

 

[Mason66]

OK Gentlemen, one of you is probably right. But who and in what way, I don't know.

The USPS really is an outdated model. Would we start a USPS today, as either a business or government service? I seriously doubt it.

Once upon a time, starting with the Pony Express, the delivery of mail across the nation was a cohesive force, a part of the UNITED States. Today, with the advent of computers, email and cell phones, ot barely serves any important purpose.

What percentage of people send out international packages? What percentage of people receive their medications by USPS because there is no UPS service? I'll guess, not much. Yet the USPS attrempts to function as if this was 1953, not 2013. The services could be wrapped into UPS (or similar) or USPS could charge more, deliver less (Saturday?) and centralize stations.

If I were in charge of winding down USPS (I'm not - don't worry) I would turn parts of it over to private enterprise with the condition that they employ some of the USPS workers, do this gradually, and raise the price of a letter to $1.00. If you worry about keeping this antiquated service, then I propose a tax of .01¢ per email to subsidize it - might cut back on spam at the same time.

It is not even so much sending out international packages, it is recieing them.

If there was no USPS that would stop a lot of international trade. I can't afford to send a 2 pound box through Fed Ex or DHL for $60.00 US Dollars when it costs $11.00 for the USPS to get to the US.

 

[specklebang]

It is not even so much sending out international packages, it is recieing them.

If there was no USPS that would stop a lot of international trade. I can't afford to send a 2 pound box through Fed Ex or DHL for $60.00 US Dollars when it costs $11.00 for the USPS to get to the US.

Mason. I'm a little confused. Are you in or out of the US? If you're overseas, it might or might not be a problem for you. I buy a lot of stuff from all over the world and indeed, it comes to me via USPS. It is mailed in, say, Poland's Postal System and is delivered to the USPS. I don't know how the USPS makes anything doing this, presumably the Polish PO gets the income and this all works by international agreement.

I don't think it's wise or plausible to eliminate the USPS. However, it uses an antiquated business model and that could be corrected. What if the USPS no longer delivered mail but had a reasonable number of mail receiving and sending stations? What if they charged more for letters? What if they worked something out with commercial carriers who charged a moderate fee?

As it is now, the USPS no longer even tries to deliver my international packages. They just drop a notice in my box which is shared by a section of the community I live in. Theoretically, they could make me come to the station - since that's what they do anyway. In the era of tracking numbers, if I bought a widget from you, you could give me the tracking number and I could check (or have an app check) if my package was in and go pick it up. For now, you're basically requesting that all Americans subsidize lower shipping costs for your customers. While nobody wants to pay $60 to get a cat coin in the system from Fiji, we don't have to make the cost be tiny. Say $11 or $20?

Instead of this massive postal system delivering 6 days a week, something smaller, tighter and more practical can be done whether by the government or some regulated private enterprise.


This is what I collect and 80% of my purchases are from overseas

 

[poweRob]

FYI, I have some friends who works for them. That doesn't seem to be the case. It's a pretty weak union, and doesn't do much. There is a no strike policy, and people are not overly paid. The benefits aren't even as good as many corporations with no unions. The postal service supports itself just fine except for the billions annually congress decided to extort from them. The postal service doesn't cost tax payers anything.

I also was a mailman. The postal service has a few unions in it. The one I was in was extremely weak-sauce while the one for the regulars was pretty strong.

 

[Mason66]

Mason. I'm a little confused. Are you in or out of the US? If you're overseas, it might or might not be a problem for you. I buy a lot of stuff from all over the world and indeed, it comes to me via USPS. It is mailed in, say, Poland's Postal System and is delivered to the USPS. I don't know how the USPS makes anything doing this, presumably the Polish PO gets the income and this all works by international agreement.

I don't think it's wise or plausible to eliminate the USPS. However, it uses an antiquated business model and that could be corrected. What if the USPS no longer delivered mail but had a reasonable number of mail receiving and sending stations? What if they charged more for letters? What if they worked something out with commercial carriers who charged a moderate fee?

As it is now, the USPS no longer even tries to deliver my international packages. They just drop a notice in my box which is shared by a section of the community I live in. Theoretically, they could make me come to the station - since that's what they do anyway. In the era of tracking numbers, if I bought a widget from you, you could give me the tracking number and I could check (or have an app check) if my package was in and go pick it up. For now, you're basically requesting that all Americans subsidize lower shipping costs for your customers. While nobody wants to pay $60 to get a cat coin in the system from Fiji, we don't have to make the cost be tiny. Say $11 or $20?

Instead of this massive postal system delivering 6 days a week, something smaller, tighter and more practical can be done whether by the government or some regulated private enterprise.

View attachment 67151684
This is what I collect and 80% of my purchases are from overseas

I am in Mexico and while a 4 pound package costs me $17.00 US to send to the US it costs somebody in the US $40.00 to send that same package back to me.

Why is there such a difference in the Price? It can't be for the actual service. It has to be all the extras the USPS has to pay that the Mexican Postal Service doesn't.

I wasn't saying the USPS makes money off of international package sent to the US, but that there would ne service to deliver the package to residents in the US if the USPS was closed. The other services are just too expensive to be viable, so US residents would not be able to buy anything outside the US and that restricts whan is available to US residents.

I sell things on EBay that nobody else has, as they are made here in Mexico so my customers in the US would not be able to restore their cars because those parts are not available anywhere else.

You have cats sent in from out of the country?

 

[specklebang]

I am in Mexico and while a 4 pound package costs me $17.00 US to send to the US it costs somebody in the US $40.00 to send that same package back to me.

Why is there such a difference in the Price? It can't be for the actual service. It has to be all the extras the USPS has to pay that the Mexican Postal Service doesn't.

I wasn't saying the USPS makes money off of international package sent to the US, but that there would ne service to deliver the package to residents in the US if the USPS was closed. The other services are just too expensive to be viable, so US residents would not be able to buy anything outside the US and that restricts whan is available to US residents.

I sell things on EBay that nobody else has, as they are made here in Mexico so my customers in the US would not be able to restore their cars because those parts are not available anywhere else.

You have cats sent in from out of the country?

Sure, some compromise needs to be worked out so the fundamental services can be facilitated but it doesn't need to be the huge, sloppy system it is now. There was a time when you had to communicate with you family, friends and loved ones by mail. Long distance was prohibitively expensive. There was no internet or email. Now, we live in a completely different world. Your package needs to be sent at a fair cost but maybe it will take a day longer or your customer will have to pick it up or opt for a surcharged home delivery. But having grizzled old guys pulling up to your mailbox 6 days a week? For 46¢?

No, I collect cat coins. From every country that makes them. I have a fair size collection in various metals.

Heres one I own and one I covet. You can guess which is which

 

[Lord of Planar]

The GAO studied the prepayment issue and determined there was no prepayment issue involved.

Here is a link to their report.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/585739.pdf

Well, very fer people are left under CRCS. Most are now retired. The FERS has always been in surplus, and the USPS did have an annuity that congress seized as well. Since congress seized the annuity, and is spending the money as the USPS makes it, the future liabilities come out of a non existence, no interest setup. Congress destroyed the retirement system, and made it more expensive for the USPS.

There are disputed claims about the CRCS as well, claiming the government owed the USPS billions in unused CRCS contributions.

That's a large document. 60 pages. I hate it when people link large amounts of material without the courtesy to give a page, partial quote, etc. I usually ignore such inconsiderate people. I don't know what you are referring to since I'm not going to read 60 pages to find it. The 75 year prepayment is real.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Sure, its cool that you can send a letter 4000 miles for 46¢ but as a business model? If a letter was $2.00 they could stay in business.

The catch is Congress mandating that 75 year buffer on benefits that has to be paid inside of 10 years. That's unprecedented for anyone. It made me wonder why Congress would do such a thing except to drive USPS into the red and make it look bad.

 

[MoSurveyor]

That I still get service when I don't desire it for what appears to be for the exact reason that I hate the service. If I could opt-out of postal service I would be very happy.

Remove your mailbox.

 

[MoSurveyor]

The GAO studied the prepayment issue and determined there was no prepayment issue involved.

Here is a link to their report.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/590/585739.pdf

Suggest you read the USPS rebuttal to that study, which is included in the *.pdf file.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Instead of this massive postal system delivering 6 days a week, something smaller, tighter and more practical can be done whether by the government or some regulated private enterprise.

The USPS has suggested several changes, one of which was eliminating Saturday mail. Congress has consistently turned down their ideas for saving money. Don't blame the USPS, blame Congress.

 

[Henrin]

Remove your mailbox.

That wouldn't actually work due to the idiotic government using the mail service to send me things that if I don't respond to I will get fined.

 

[ocean515]

Well, very fer people are left under CRCS. Most are now retired. The FERS has always been in surplus, and the USPS did have an annuity that congress seized as well. Since congress seized the annuity, and is spending the money as the USPS makes it, the future liabilities come out of a non existence, no interest setup. Congress destroyed the retirement system, and made it more expensive for the USPS.

There are disputed claims about the CRCS as well, claiming the government owed the USPS billions in unused CRCS contributions.

That's a large document. 60 pages. I hate it when people link large amounts of material without the courtesy to give a page, partial quote, etc. I usually ignore such inconsiderate people. I don't know what you are referring to since I'm not going to read 60 pages to find it. The 75 year prepayment is real.

The GAO summerizes their reports on Page 1. Usually withing the first few paragraphs they present their conclusions. The rest of the report contains the specifics.

 

[ocean515]

Suggest you read the USPS rebuttal to that study, which is included in the *.pdf file.

It makes sense the USPS would reject the results of the GAO's study. I think the GAO did a good job explaining the rational behind the pension payment requirement.

I thought this line from page 2 of the GAO's report was particularly relevant.

"Congress considered that USPS was to be self-sustaining and that the
federal government, which had no control over USPS pay increases, should not
be liable for pension benefits attributable to those increases."

 

[polgara]

It makes sense the USPS would reject the results of the GAO's study. I think the GAO did a good job explaining the rational behind the pension payment requirement.

I thought this line from page 2 of the GAO's report was particularly relevant.

"Congress considered that USPS was to be self-sustaining and that the
federal government, which had no control over USPS pay increases, should not
be liable for pension benefits attributable to those increases."

If the federal government had no control over federal employees' pay increases, who did? I thought those were civil service jobs. Who is responsible for the pay grades in place? I definitely think I am missing something here. :wow:

Besides, asking any entity, government or business, to figure out how to prepay years of future pensions is a tad unreasonable. Why was the USPS singled out? Most everyone uses the Post Office from time to time, and I'm happy they are there! :thumbs: