US ISIS envoy resigns

[Fishking]

You're the only person you're fooling.

Boring.

 

[Fishking]

I have a question for you Fishking.

Do you ever think about Earth, or do you just think about the U.S.? Do you have any love for this planet and do you have any plan for keeping this planet safe for all of us, or do you just want to build a wall around the U.S. and keep everyone out. Spend every last penny that we have for defense and security and try to cower in fear while the world around us caves in and makes the planet dangerous and unsafe to live in. Is that your game plan?

I think about the Earth a lot....and our policies and actions are making it worse and less safe. How's Libya doing after out intervention? How's Syria? Yemen? Iran?

 

[Mr Person]

Lol. The US pulls out of a Middle Eastern conflict and liberals lose their **** over it.

Do you find equally amusing he flip-flop resulting when same people who defended Bush Jr. on the Iraq issue (before it became passe) and attacked Obama for a gradual withdrawal as seemed appropriate for the level of stabilization now have no problem with an abrupt withdrawal against military advice?

(must also note that each type of withdrawal has happened in unique circumstances)

Should the US be in Syria fighting?

At this point, we owe the Kurds. And even if we didn't owe them, we'd probably ask for their help again. Its downright stupid to abruptly betray one of our few allies in the ME and deliver them to slaughter by Turkey. (Edit: not only stupid, but inhuman...or perhaps too human).

Nevermind that if you break it, you buy it.

Or, I suppose you could break it, blame the other side for not buying it, then say something like "eh, who cares about that? Silly liberal!"

 

[Rogue Valley]

I think about the Earth a lot....and our policies and actions are making it worse and less safe. How's Libya doing after out intervention? How's Syria? Yemen? Iran?

Like ISIS (Syria/Libya) and Al-Queda (Afghanistan) and the Houthis (Yemen) and Hezbollah (Syria) would have played nice without a US presence.

Geezus, you're terminally naive.

 

[Fishking]

Cowering in the closet will not solve any problems. Yes, the world is a mess because humankind is a mess. Nonetheless, this is the way it has always been and will always be. What it takes is for someone who is a hero (like Lincoln) to stand up and do something about it. Did Lincoln get rid of racism? No, he didn't solve that problem but he did make it illegal for there to be racism. The only thing that any of us can do it try to make it better. It won't always occur but if we cower in the closet (as you suggest), it is a guarantee that things will get worse.

Ah...another false dichotomy. There is nothing about not blowing up other nations and making matters work that makes anyone a coward. It's like calling someone a coward because they don't go down to the local bar to start fights. If that's the type of idiocy you're going to go with then you're sorely over your head here and you should walk away.

 

[Fishking]

Like ISIS (Syria/Libya) and Al-Queda (Afghanistan) and the Houthis (Yemen) and Hezbollah (Syria) would have played nice without a US presence.

Geezus, you're terminally naive.

Yay! Time for a pro-bono history lesson.

1. ISIS, as they came to be, was a result of our intervention in Syria, creating a power vacuum that let them branch out and grow. AKA...out intervention.
2. AQ in Afghanistan came about due to you intervention there as a proxy war against Russia.
3. Hezbollah being in Syria is also related to #1 and therefore has already been covered. The undermining of the Syrian government meant they had to reach out to more people/groups to ensure their survival.

I swear...the walking around zombie ignorance on foreign policy and history here is just astounding.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

With the total Syria withdrawal and the 50% withdrawal from Afghanistan, I predict ISIS or AQ (maybe both) will strike the mainland US within a year.

That's what Trump wants. It will keep him in the White House, or so he thinks.
That's what the Syria withdrawal is about. That's what the Af-Pak withdrawal is about, that's what all of it is about.
Trump wants and needs another 9/11 to cement his position.

I'm surprised no one else sees this.

 

[Luckyone]

I think about the Earth a lot....and our policies and actions are making it worse and less safe. How's Libya doing after out intervention? How's Syria? Yemen? Iran?

Yeah, that is what I am saying, what about those countries. What you are saying is to get out of them and leave them to their own fate. How is that going to help the world?

 

[Luckyone]

Ah...another false dichotomy. There is nothing about not blowing up other nations and making matters work that makes anyone a coward. It's like calling someone a coward because they don't go down to the local bar to start fights. If that's the type of idiocy you're going to go with then you're sorely over your head here and you should walk away.

Sorry, but you have to explain your meaning. I do not understand what "calling someone a coward because they don't go down to the local bar to start fights" has to do with standing up for what is right and defending that ideal.

 

[Fishking]

Yeah, that is what I am saying, what about those countries. What you are saying is to get out of them and leave them to their own fate. How is that going to help the world?

Our intervention brought about, or at least significantly contributed to, the current dynamics. I'm saying stop that but you want to keep doing it. You're literally supporting the very things that's making it worse.

 

[Fishking]

Sorry, but you have to explain your meaning. I do not understand what "calling someone a coward because they don't go down to the local bar to start fights" has to do with standing up for what is right and defending that ideal.

You think we do what we do because we are standing up for what is right? That's cute. Tell me...what is right about our close relationship with Saudi Arabia, one of the biggest human rights violators and oppressors in the world, and helping them commit war crimes in Yemen? What was right about overthrowing the democratically elected Iranian government and installing a dictator?

 

[digsbe]

Do you find equally amusing he flip-flop resulting when same people who defended Bush Jr. on the Iraq issue (before it became passe) and attacked Obama for a gradual withdrawal as seemed appropriate for the level of stabilization now have no problem with an abrupt withdrawal against military advice?

(must also note that each type of withdrawal has happened in unique circumstances)







At this point, we owe the Kurds. And even if we didn't owe them, we'd probably ask for their help again. Its downright stupid to abruptly betray one of our few allies in the ME and deliver them to slaughter by Turkey. (Edit: not only stupid, but inhuman...or perhaps too human).

Nevermind that if you break it, you buy it.

Or, I suppose you could break it, blame the other side for not buying it, then say something like "eh, who cares about that? Silly liberal!"

I do disagree with Trump's withdrawal. I think the US should focus more so on east Asia to counter China but I think we should have at least some presence in Syria. I just think it's a little silly that many criticize the president over withdrawal from a Middle Eastern conflict when that would more so align with what they would want when it comes to foreign policy (assuming the criticism on the War on Terror stays consistent).

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Further, there are a measly 2-3,000 troops in Syria, mostly support roles.
The idea that this will change anything at all that much or its anything more than a publicity stunt by Trump Corp is foolhardy. McGurk and Mattis resigned over Trump's misuse of the office of the president, and the symbolic gesture he has made to our allies that he doesn't give a **** about anyone other than himself.

 

[Luckyone]

Our intervention brought about, or at least significantly contributed to, the current dynamics. I'm saying stop that but you want to keep doing it. You're literally supporting the very things that's making it worse.

So you are suggesting that the forces there now, such as ISIS, the Taliban and Iran get control of the region, which ultimately would mean that Israel would become a target, especially since we have not only withdrawn our troops but have shown no further inclination to even get involved in the middle east. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Luckyone]

You think we do what we do because we are standing up for what is right? That's cute. Tell me...what is right about our close relationship with Saudi Arabia, one of the biggest human rights violators and oppressors in the world, and helping them commit war crimes in Yemen? What was right about overthrowing the democratically elected Iranian government and installing a dictator?

Yeah, well the thing with Saudi Arabia is all on Trump. He is making money hands over fist and money is what draws Trump to it. Does this mean you are against Trump?

 

[Fishking]

So you are suggesting that the forces there now, such as ISIS, the Taliban and Iran get control of the region, which ultimately would mean that Israel would become a target, especially since we have not only withdrawn our troops but have shown no further inclination to even get involved in the middle east. Is that what you are suggesting?

You're so far off that you don't even know that your comments are divorced from reality. Our intervention in Syria made ISIS possible and our continued intervention has kept them around longer. Try again.

 

[Fishking]

Yeah, well the thing with Saudi Arabia is all on Trump. He is making money hands over fist and money is what draws Trump to it. Does this mean you are against Trump?

Uhhh…."all on Trump"? WTF rock you been living under? The support for SA has been going on for decades and multiple administrations. The assistance to them and their unethical war in Yemen started with Obama. But so far as what Trump has done with it from that point forward, yes, I'm against Trump on that.

 

[Luckyone]

You're so far off that you don't even know that your comments are divorced from reality. Our intervention in Syria made ISIS possible and our continued intervention has kept them around longer. Try again.

Prove it

 

[Luckyone]

Uhhh…."all on Trump"? WTF rock you been living under? The support for SA has been going on for decades and multiple administrations. The assistance to them and their unethical war in Yemen started with Obama. But so far as what Trump has done with it from that point forward, yes, I'm against Trump on that.

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So tell us your game plan. What would you do if you were President?

 

[Airyaman]

Trump: We've defeated ISIS in Syria!

One of the lead persons on the US side in the fight against ISIS/L resigns.

Trump: Don't know the guy!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1076655729820471296

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

Brett McGurk, who I do not know, was appointed by President Obama in 2015. Was supposed to leave in February but he just resigned prior to leaving. Grandstander? The Fake News is making such a big deal about this nothing event!

5:48 PM - 22 Dec 2018

I think I see the problem.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Dem senator: Trump saying he doesn’t know his top ISIS envoy ‘should scare the hell out of every American’

Trump says he defeated ISIS. Yet he says he "doesn't know" his top envoy in the fight against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), Brett McGurk.

Geezus. We are in deep trouble.

 

[Fishking]

Prove it

When the Arab Spring (should be called winter) there were some protests in Syria as well. The Syrian government started cracking down on it and the U.S. (and other western powers) intervened and started undermining the Syrian government, via logistical support, military support, weapons, ect. We supported extremists groups that we had no real clue as to their disposition, or maybe we didn't care and just wanted any ant-Syrian gov forces getting strong. This created a power vacuum for extremists to fill and so elements of AQ in Iraq branched out into Syria and this is when they saw huge growth and expansion and set up their Islamic State, taking and controlling land.

Here's a nice article but it just scratches the surface.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

This shouldn't have been a surprise to people because it was predicted by the Defense Intelligence Agency (also mention in the article but linked below):

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...12-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

I can only lead a horse to water so far as education in this area, though it has been in my field of profession for 15+ years, because people will only believe what they want to and the ignorant narratives that have programmed our culture is very pervasive.

 

[Fishking]

Dem senator: Trump saying he doesn’t know his top ISIS envoy ‘should scare the hell out of every American’

Trump says he defeated ISIS. Yet he says he "doesn't know" his top envoy in the fight against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), Brett McGurk.

Geezus. We are in deep trouble.

Yes....we should be really scared the "evil Hitler authoritarian Trump" is doing less war instead of more war. Amazing!

 

[Fishking]

So tell us your game plan. What would you do if you were President?

Stop trying to intervene in areas where we can't fix or make matters worse. Understand that a certain level of oppressive governments in that region are currently how things need to be as it's the only thing that keeps the various religious sects and ethnicities from killing each other. Start reducing our support and relationship with Saudi Arabia, the country most responsible for global terrorism, which can start with not selling them more arms to commit war crimes in Yemen.

Don't really need to do a lot to make improvements or, at the very least, not get blood all over our hands and creating more enemies.

 

[Luckyone]

When the Arab Spring (should be called winter) there were some protests in Syria as well. The Syrian government started cracking down on it and the U.S. (and other western powers) intervened and started undermining the Syrian government, via logistical support, military support, weapons, ect. We supported extremists groups that we had no real clue as to their disposition, or maybe we didn't care and just wanted any ant-Syrian gov forces getting strong. This created a power vacuum for extremists to fill and so elements of AQ in Iraq branched out into Syria and this is when they saw huge growth and expansion and set up their Islamic State, taking and controlling land.

Here's a nice article but it just scratches the surface.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

This shouldn't have been a surprise to people because it was predicted by the Defense Intelligence Agency (also mention in the article but linked below):

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...12-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

I can only lead a horse to water so far as education in this area, though it has been in my field of profession for 15+ years, because people will only believe what they want to and the ignorant narratives that have programmed our culture is very pervasive.

Whether you are right or not, the situation is that now getting out of Syria will mean we are giving it to Russia and to Iran and having them there in control is not of help to us, to Europe and much less to Israel.

Pointing out the errors made in the past is no solution to the existing problem. When errors are made, you need to consider the consequences as they are right now.