UNION NO!!! in Garner, North Carolina

[ColdHardTruth]

Rightists vote the way wealthy people tell them to vote, not in their best interests. They think wealthy people must be intelligent and they want to appear intelligent themselves by agreeing with them.
A rightist who twists wrenches for a living will vote anti-union because wealthy people say he should. A rightist who loves to hunt and fish will be against environmental issues because wealthy people tell him to be.

This needs to be investigated.

I bet Bezos and his goons interfered.

 

[Phys251]

Some of us have to be on the contrary side.

Keep smashing the working party and see how well that works out for you.

 

[Safiel]

Keep smashing the working party and see how well that works out for you.

It actually doesn't matter to me at the moment since I am not supporting MAGA Republicans.

And even if Democrats change rules to be more favorable to unions, I see little more than minimal union growth.

 

[Safiel]

Unions ****ed THEMSELVES in the winter of 1945/1946 went they went bat shit crazy with power. That winter of strikes directly led to Taft/Hartley and unions never recovered from that.

At this point, even if they substantially repeal Taft/Hartley, unions will never recover to what they were.

 

[ataraxia]

Let me help out.

Private unions, good
Public unions bad.

It is really this simple.

Hmmm, are you sure about it being that simple?

Why the Republican Party Wants to Destroy Labor Unions | Common Dreams

The GOP sees unions and their supporters as enemies to be politically and economically destroyed.

www.commondreams.org

I think it's simple, but more because they will call good or bad whatever Trump tells them to. And then change their minds when he tells them to. It's really a weird cult.

 

[Grand Mal]

On net you will always be worse off with artificially high labor costs. Labor is not a benefit, it is a cost, and setting up labor cartels in order to monopolize the entire labor supply would drastically increase that cost. If you think high labor costs are good, just look at the American healthcare industry. Doctors are the highest paid profession in the country. Nurses average $50 per hour. Artificially making goods and services more expensive results in a net loss overall.

America was best, most prosperous, when it's union membership was highest. Everything an American could want or need was Made In America. Made In Japan was a euphemism for cheap junk. Then manufacturing industry was lured south with Right to Work laws and it was just the first step on the road to Mexican maquiladora zones and child-labour sweatshops in Sri Lanka.
Goods were more expensive but they were top quality, they lasted. Remember hand-me-down shoes and clothes? That said two things- the products lasted for generations and cost too much to throw out when they were still useful. Things were passed among friends and related families in my childhood. Major appliances lasted decades.
It's all cheap shit now. Disposable.

 

[bomberfox]

Unions ****ed THEMSELVES in the winter of 1945/1946 went they went bat shit crazy with power. That winter of strikes directly led to Taft/Hartley and unions never recovered from that.

At this point, even if they substantially repeal Taft/Hartley, unions will never recover to what they were.

Umm no. By 1945, union membership had more than doubled, reaching 14.5 million

Episode 5 – Strike Wave | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

In 1945-46, to demand better working conditions, more than five million Americans create a massive strike wave--with unforseen repercussions.

www.nationalww2museum.org

In the weeks and months after the end of WWII, Americans working in industries across the country began to walk off the job in protest of poor wages and unsafe working conditions. After upholding a no-strike pledge during the war, many workers expected a return to regular hours, pay, and benefits that existed before the start of the war, but industries - including petroleum, coal mining, automobiles, and public utilities - failed to returning working conditions to the expected status quo, in spite of rising profits. With the end of the wartime no-strike pledge, workers expressed their frustration through a series of strikes that came to involve over 5 million Americans from the end of 1945 and into 1946.

Its like the soldiers that got screwed out of their bonus forming the bonus army.

 

[aociswundumho]

America was best, most prosperous, when it's union membership was highest.

So you are referring to the 50s and 60s.

Europe and Japan were still rebuilding from the war. Global competition was very low, and the U.S. had no rivals. That prosperity was due to a very unique geopolitical situation. It wasn't because of unions.

Union membership has been falling for decades, yet the US economy and overall wealth keeps rising.

Everything an American could want or need was Made In America.

That is definitely false.

 

[Peter]

No, they're only good for the members of the labor cartel, which is what a union is. Everyone else loses. Consumers pay higher prices, and other workers aren't allowed to compete for work which has been monopolized by the union.

Unions are a good way to give employees some extra bargaining power for wages and benefits but all you seem to care about is corporate profits.

 

[Grand Mal]

So you are referring to the 50s and 60s.

And 70's. And later. Prior to southern states enacting 'right-to-work' laws to attract manufacturing to non-union environments.

Europe and Japan were still rebuilding from the war. Global competition was very low, and the U.S. had no rivals. That prosperity was due to a very unique geopolitical situation. It wasn't because of unions.

Yet Europe and Japan are prospering in union environments.

Union membership has been falling for decades, yet the US economy and overall wealth keeps rising.

Overall wealth? Do you really want to go there? The wealthy of billionaires divided between the population makes America look prosperous, alright.

That is definitely false.

That is definitely true. When I was growing up everything manufactured was made in North America. Bananas came from elsewhere, and sugar and coffee, but imported goods were a rarity, something wealthy people indulged in.

 

[RF667799]

And 70's. And later. Prior to southern states enacting 'right-to-work' laws to attract manufacturing to non-union environments.

Yet Europe and Japan are prospering in union environments.

Overall wealth? Do you really want to go there? The wealthy of billionaires divided between the population makes America look prosperous, alright.

That is definitely true. When I was growing up everything manufactured was made in North America. Bananas came from elsewhere, and sugar and coffee, but imported goods were a rarity, something wealthy people indulged in.

76-80 or so, I had a good paying UAW job building frames for full size GM cars. Then more and more Datsuns, Honda, and Toyotas started showing up in the plant parking lot, and the plant closed.

It wasn't all the fault of those foreign cars. The union had a hand in it as well. In fact, I always thought there was collusion between the local union and plant management.

 

[NJBob]

76-80 or so, I had a good paying UAW job building frames for full size GM cars. Then more and more Datsuns, Honda, and Toyotas started showing up in the plant parking lot, and the plant closed.

It wasn't all the fault of those foreign cars. The union had a hand in it as well. In fact, I always thought there was collusion between the local union and plant management.

Of course it was the fault of the foreign cars and the companies that built them. It was also the fault of the American companies that built bloated, unpopular cars.

Don’t blame the unions or plant managers for poorly designed cars that didn’t meet the needs of car buyers. Blame GM, Ford and Chrysler.

 

[RF667799]

Of course it was the fault of the foreign cars and the companies that built them. It was also the fault of the American companies that built bloated, unpopular cars.

Don’t blame the unions or plant managers for poorly designed cars that didn’t meet the needs of car buyers. Blame GM, Ford and Chrysler.

Did you work there?

 

[NJBob]

Did you work there?

How would “working there” change the fact that American cars of the 70s and 80s sucked? The car buying public knew it and bought imports instead.

 

[cpwill]

It’s sad that workers are scared to the point that they act against their own best interests.

I think it's interesting that - without knowing anything about them - you can confidently claim they voted against their own interests in this instance.

Guess they didn't want to take a payout in order to have an additional layer of management.

 

[NJBob]

I think it's interesting that - without knowing anything about them - you can confidently claim they voted against their own interests in this instance.

Guess they didn't want to take a payout in order to have an additional layer of management.

I’m simply making an observation. Do you think I’m wrong?

 

[RF667799]

How would “working there” change the fact that American cars of the 70s and 80s sucked? The car buying public knew it and bought imports instead.

"Working there" would be the difference between making statements based on experience, and making statements rooted in ignorance.

 

[cpwill]

America was best, most prosperous, when it's union membership was highest

...there are a lot of versions of how you define "best", but, we were absolutely not at our most prosperous.

. Everything an American could want or need was Made In America.

Juche!

I’m simply making an observation. Do you think I’m wrong?

Yup. I live in the broad area, and drove by this facility during this drive. There were.... maybe a dozen people out front in t-shirts with signs (they were cooking burgers), and a steady stream of people driving and walking by without engaging, or politely waving and then continuing moving. We drove back an hour or so later and the people out front were gone (still mid-late afternoon/evening time frame). The vote numbers being as lopsided as they are don't really surprise me.

 

[Safiel]

(snipped)

Yup. I live in the broad area, and drove by this facility during this drive. There were.... maybe a dozen people out front in t-shirts with signs (they were cooking burgers), and a steady stream of people driving and walking by without engaging, or politely waving and then continuing moving. We drove back an hour or so later and the people out front were gone (still mid-late afternoon/evening time frame). The vote numbers being as lopsided as they are don't really surprise me.

Over the years, I have been involved (from the corporate side) in a number of union certification/decertification attempts.

If a union gathers petition signatures from 30% of the proposed bargaining unit, then an NLRB election must be held.

Many workers will sign the petition cards to get the organizers off their back.

Then when the NLRB election is held (in a secret and secure voting booth where neither union nor company knows how they voted) some workers who previously signed cards may turn around and vote no on the union.

In one case at one of our facilities, with around 200 potential members, the union turned in about 70 petitions, right about at the number needed. When the NLRB election was held, the result was about 40 yes to 160 no, meaning that around 30 of the people that signed petitions ended up voting no.

Which I is why I will never sign a neutrality agreement and why I oppose card check. The petition process is open and the union knows who signed and who didn't and can pressure non-signers. In an NLRB election, employees are free to vote their conscious without fear of reprisal, either by the company or union.

And if the union does win, it was because they genuinely had worker support, not because of coercion.

 

[NJBob]

"Working there" would be the difference between making statements based on experience, and making statements rooted in ignorance.

Really? So you think American cars of the 70s and 80s didn’t suck?

I didn’t have to work at an American auto plant to know that. And didn’t you say you did? How did you miss the fact that the product you were involved in producing was shit?

 

[bomberfox]

...there are a lot of versions of how you define "best", but, we were absolutely not at our most prosperous.



Juche!




Yup. I live in the broad area, and drove by this facility during this drive. There were.... maybe a dozen people out front in t-shirts with signs (they were cooking burgers), and a steady stream of people driving and walking by without engaging, or politely waving and then continuing moving. We drove back an hour or so later and the people out front were gone (still mid-late afternoon/evening time frame). The vote numbers being as lopsided as they are don't really surprise me.

Ahhh i see you know what Juche means . That took me while to figure it out.

 

[bomberfox]

Really? So you think American cars of the 70s and 80s didn’t suck?

I didn’t have to work at an American auto plant to know that. And didn’t you say you did? How did you miss the fact that the product you were involved in producing was shit?

Maybe because it wasnt shit to him and the people who bought it?

 

[RF667799]

Really? So you think American cars of the 70s and 80s didn’t suck?

I didn’t have to work at an American auto plant to know that. And didn’t you say you did? How did you miss the fact that the product you were involved in producing was shit?

So you think your post was some sort of valid response to my post. What sucks is to be so horribly wrong. See ya'.

 

[RF667799]

Maybe because it wasnt shit to him and the people who bought it?

That's true, but I never said anything in support of American cars vs foreign cars in my post anyway.

 

[NJBob]

Maybe because it wasnt shit to him and the people who bought it?

No, there’s no two ways about it, those cars were complete shit.

How many K-Cars do you still see on the road? How many Citations, how many Mustang IIs?