Ukrainian Sovereignty Was The Paramount "Western Value" That Was The Driver In Western Support Of The War. ( until it wasn't )

[Jredbaron96]

No, he had to attack because he saw that warmongers were arranging to attack his country.

Nobody was arranging to attack Russia.

 

[sanman]

Nobody was arranging to attack Russia.

Absolutely they were. The whole purpose of regime change in Ukraine was for the purpose of using it as springboard to attack Russia. The immediate targeting of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, to ethnically cleanse them from the only soil they have ever known, is prima facia evidence. These are well-known age-old predatory games that have happened before, and are glaringly obvious to the Russian people.
Your lack of knowledge and awareness is the problem, if not feigned ignorance.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Absolutely they were. The whole purpose of regime change in Ukraine was for the purpose of using it as springboard to attack Russia. The immediate targeting of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, to ethnically cleanse them from the only soil they have ever known, is prima facia evidence. These are well-known age-old predatory games that have happened before, and are glaringly obvious to the Russian people.
Your lack of knowledge and awareness is the problem, if not feigned ignorance.

Excellent points Comrade Sanman!

 

[sanman]

Excellent points Comrade Sanman!

You're the guy from the crooked socialist party camp, and you're deriding other people as comrade?
You should address yourself in the mirror that way.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Absolutely they were. The whole purpose of regime change in Ukraine was for the purpose of using it as springboard to attack Russia.

How many divisions and aircraft wings did NATO forward deploy to Eastern Europe in preparation for this attack?

The immediate targeting of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, to ethnically cleanse them from the only soil they have ever known, is prima facia evidence.

There was no campign of ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians in Ukraine. The head of Ukraines is an ethnic Russian.

These are well-known age-old predatory games that have happened before, and are glaringly obvious to the Russian people.
Your lack of knowledge and awareness is the problem, if not feigned ignorance.

This is a complete fabrication as there is no evidence NATO was preparing for an attack on Russia.

 

[Fledermaus]

Absolutely they were. The whole purpose of regime change in Ukraine was for the purpose of using it as springboard to attack Russia. The immediate targeting of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, to ethnically cleanse them from the only soil they have ever known, is prima facia evidence. These are well-known age-old predatory games that have happened before, and are glaringly obvious to the Russian people.
Your lack of knowledge and awareness is the problem, if not feigned ignorance.

OMFG.....

Conspiracy Theory Heaven.....

Regime change?

Spring board for attacks on Russia?

Ethnically cleansed Russians in Ukraine?

 

[sanman]

How many divisions and aircraft wings did NATO forward deploy to Eastern Europe in preparation for this attack?

The goal was to use NATO as a shield to hide behind, while using subversion thru NED/USAID/etc for creating ethnic strife and "color revolutions".
Ukraine would have soon been hosting strategic missiles to strike Russian soil (later under Zelensky it soon did)

There was no campign of ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians in Ukraine. The head of Ukraines is an ethnic Russian.

Only because Zelensky needed to fire Zaluzhny, who was more sanguine about sacrificing Ukrainians in unlimited numbers.
Zelensky doesn't mind unlimited sacrifice as long as it's not his own kith and kin.
His own family have to be sheltered in luxurious mansions abroad, for their more important duties of Vogue photoshoots.

This is a complete fabrication as there is no evidence NATO was preparing for an attack on Russia.

NATO has certainly been used as a tool of aggression before, such as its invasion of Serbia to carve out Kosovo.

 

[Fledermaus]

The goal was to use NATO as a shield to hide behind, while using subversion thru NED/USAID/etc for creating ethnic strife and "color revolutions".
Ukraine would have soon been hosting strategic missiles to strike Russian soil (later under Zelensky it soon did)



Only because Zelensky needed to fire Zaluzhny, who was more sanguine about sacrificing Ukrainians in unlimited numbers.
Zelensky doesn't mind unlimited sacrifice as long as it's not his own kith and kin.
His own family have to be sheltered in luxurious mansions abroad, for their more important duties of Vogue photoshoots.


NATO has certainly been used as a tool of aggression before, such as its invasion of Serbia to carve out Kosovo.

So now Ukraine wasn't a springboard of attacks?

And color revolutions required no US prodding.

The USSR sucked so bad all the former Republics wanted out.

 

[Jredbaron96]

The goal was to use NATO as a shield to hide behind, while using subversion thru NED/USAID/etc for creating ethnic strife and "color revolutions".

[Citation needed]

Ukraine would have soon been hosting strategic missiles to strike Russian soil (later under Zelensky it soon did)

Ukraine already had strategic missiles.

Only because Zelensky needed to fire Zaluzhny, who was more sanguine about sacrificing Ukrainians in unlimited numbers.
Zelensky doesn't mind unlimited sacrifice as long as it's not his own kith and kin.

This makes no sense as there's been no unwillingness to send formations of Ukrainians to fight.

His own family have to be sheltered in luxurious mansions abroad, for their more important duties of Vogue photoshoots.

What luxurious mansions?

NATO has certainly been used as a tool of aggression before, such as its invasion of Serbia to carve out Kosovo.

The Kosovo the Serbs were ethnically cleansing?

 

[sanman]

[Citation needed]

Citations are useless for the close-minded, as they'll be reflexively rejected

Ukraine already had strategic missiles.

Then why did it need NATO?

This makes no sense as there's been no unwillingness to send formations of Ukrainians to fight.

Zelensky doesn't want to put his views to the test through popular elections. That's why he's extended his rule indefinitely in perpetuity. That's also why he sacked Zaluzhny

What luxurious mansions?

What siphoned aid? What money?

The Kosovo the Serbs were ethnically cleansing?

You mean like the Kyiv Ukrainians were?

 

[Jredbaron96]

Citations are useless for the close-minded, as they'll be reflexively rejected

This sounds like a cop out. Do you have a source or not?

Then why did it need NATO?

Why do you think long range missiles are a substitute for an alliance?

Zelensky doesn't want to put his views to the test through popular elections. That's why he's extended his rule indefinitely in perpetuity. That's also why he sacked Zaluzhny

Zelenskys approval rating is over 50%, his own political opponents say they shouldn't run elections.

What siphoned aid? What money?

Your dodging; what mansions are you talking about?

You mean like the Kyiv Ukrainians were?

No, because ethnic Russians were not being ethnically cleansed in Donbas. If they were you would have provided proof of it.

 

[snakestretcher]

Trump is also a subset of the totality of "western values". Putin as well. Marine le Pen as well.

Fascism is a "western value"? The Le Pen family are notorious far-right fascists and holocaust deniers. And Putin? Don't make me laugh; his idea of "western values" is a return to the joys of the USSR which was as vehemently anti-west as any state you can name.

 

[snakestretcher]

Citations are useless for the close-minded, as they'll be reflexively rejected


Then why did it need NATO?



Zelensky doesn't want to put his views to the test through popular elections. That's why he's extended his rule indefinitely in perpetuity. That's also why he sacked Zaluzhny




What siphoned aid? What money?



You mean like the Kyiv Ukrainians were?

NATO Article 5. That's why NATO exists; to mutually defend against aggressors. Attack one member state and you'll have all the rest to deal with (except America, if Trump has his way).

 

[Juin]

Fascism is a "western value"? The Le Pen family are notorious far-right fascists and holocaust deniers. And Putin? Don't make me laugh; his idea of "western values" is a return to the joys of the USSR which was as vehemently anti-west as any state you can name.

Whose value is fascism then?

 

[sanman]

NATO Article 5. That's why NATO exists; to mutually defend against aggressors. Attack one member state and you'll have all the rest to deal with (except America, if Trump has his way).

The United States has already said it's not going to send troops to defend Ukraine. Even Biden didn't do that. So you can forget about it.

NATO is going bye-bye anyway.

 

[sanman]

NATO Article 5. That's why NATO exists; to mutually defend against aggressors. Attack one member state and you'll have all the rest to deal with (except America, if Trump has his way).

Here - take a tip from a fellow Brit - sound advice

 

[snakestretcher]

Here - take a tip from a fellow Brit - sound advice

Gorgeous George? That idiot? He has about as much political credibility as the moron calling himself your 'president'. Galloway isn't even in government and was a keen supporter of and apologist for Saddam Hussein.

Letters: Why the media are critical of Galloway

Letters: Roy Greenslade's famous talent for cool analysis deserted him in his apologia for George Galloway (No need for balance, May 13).

www.theguardian.com

 

[beancounter]

Oh, no worries, Russia will just take Ukraine and then stop there.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Russia has cucked the Republican Party.

 

[sanman]

Gorgeous George? That idiot? He has about as much political credibility as the moron calling himself your 'president'. Galloway isn't even in government and was a keen supporter of and apologist for Saddam Hussein.

Oh, so Saddam was your big demon in the 2000s. Your big "Hitler" of the day, before you shifted to Putin.
Remember the Downing Street memorandum?

My, how easily you "Liberals" flip flop

 

[Fledermaus]

Oh, so Saddam was your big demon in the 2000s. Your big "Hitler" of the day, before you shifted to Putin.
Remember the Downing Street memorandum?

My, how easily you "Liberals" flip flop

Didn't Saddam invade his neighbors and participate in ethnic cleansing and gassing civilians?

 

[sanman]

Didn't Saddam invade his neighbors and participate in ethnic cleansing and gassing civilians?

Didn't Bush-Cheney invade Iraq on the manufactured pretext that he was developing nuclear weapons -- oh, excuse me, "WMD" (your weasel word of that day)
Didn't you leftists support Obama because he was the only one who voted against the invasion while in the US Senate?
My, my - how the worm has turned - the Left are now all defending their precious warmongers

 

[Fledermaus]

Didn't Bush-Cheney invade Iraq on the manufactured pretext that he was developing nuclear weapons -- oh, excuse me, "WMD" (your weasel word of that day)
Didn't you leftists support Obama because he was the only one who voted against the invasion while in the US Senate?
My, my - how the worm has turned - the Left are now all defending their precious warmongers

You stated something about "Saddam was your big demon in the 2000s" and compared to Hitler....

I gave reasons why that was so.

 

[sanman]

You stated something about "Saddam was your big demon in the 2000s" and compared to Hitler....

I gave reasons why that was so.

And I'm giving you reasons why it's hypocrisy on the part of the Left to have rallied against the war and its propaganda, only to embrace the very same methods when it later suits them.
Putin is now your Great Satan whom you will cite as your pretext for every stunt and crooked action you pull.
Ukraine is a ridiculous hill to die on, as you venture further and further into reviving all ethnic hatreds in Europe for your own ends.

 

[Fledermaus]

And I'm giving you reasons why it's hypocrisy on the part of the Left to have rallied against the war and its propaganda, only to embrace the very same methods when it later suits them.
Putin is now your Great Satan whom you will cite as your pretext for every stunt and crooked action you pull.
Ukraine is a ridiculous hill to die on, as you venture further and further into reviving all ethnic hatreds in Europe for your own ends.

Putin has in invaded their neighbor and has blatantly butchered civilians....

Seems like a good enough reason to help Ukraine.