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U.S. taps half-billion German phone, internet links in month:

Dragonfly

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U.S. taps half-billion German phone, internet links in month: report

BERLIN (Reuters) - The United States taps half a billion phone calls, emails and text messages in Germany in a typical month and has classed its biggest European ally as a target similar to China, according to secret U.S. documents quoted by a German newsmagazine.

The revelations of alleged U.S. surveillance programs based on documents taken by fugitive former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden have raised a political furor in the United States and abroad over the balance between privacy rights and national security.


America!! America!!!!!! MerikA!!!!! MERIKA!!!!!

F yeah....

So who is going to defend this (if it proves to be true)?
 

Dragonfly

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From CNN:

Europe furious, 'shocked' by report of U.S. spying - CNN.com

Best quote about this comes, from all places, RUSSIA:

"It's not a matter of Snowden's usefulness to Russia, it's a matter of principle," Alexei Pushkov -- who heads the international affairs committee at the Duma, the lower house of parliament -- said on Twitter.

"He is a political refugee and handing him over is morally unacceptable," he said.


He is a political refugee and handing him over is morally unacceptable

Bravo...
 

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U.S. taps half-billion German phone, internet links in month: report




America!! America!!!!!! MerikA!!!!! MERIKA!!!!!

F yeah....

So who is going to defend this (if it proves to be true)?

I don't know who can defend it. And I think we should remember that this probably isn't the full extent of what's going on. More to come from Snowden, I'd bet.

Does anyone really know what to make of this? What's going on? The whys? I don't think so. I just know that it appears our government is out of control.

This reminds me of what I've noticed throughout my life. Give a committee a "charge" and they will, by human nature, grow it to push all sides of the envelope and eventually go well beyond it. It's why our government is growing exponentially. Authority given isn't as important as authority taken. And without checks on the systems, each committee, if you will, strives to grow ever larger, more influential and powerful. It's human nature.

An unchecked government is dangerous. And that's what our governments -- at all levels -- have become. Give these government entities the power to print money, manipulate markets, operate in a clandestine fashion, borrow with impunity, and here's what we've got.

The biggest bubble of all.
 

Dragonfly

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The flip side of all this comes down to something very simple:


Is anybody really surprised?
 

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Guess the government can't bitch too much when China tries to hack the Pentagon from here on out.
 

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Guess the government can't bitch too much when China tries to hack the Pentagon from here on out.

But but but..... when 'Merika does it they do it for the "good of the people", not for nefarious reasons....."we" do it for all the "right" reasons.
 

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But but but..... when 'Merika does it they do it for the "good of the people", not for nefarious reasons....."we" do it for all the "right" reasons.

I don't think that's what he is trying to say. While I certainly don't condone this, the difference is we aren't hacking the government to get this information, while on the flipside China is hacking us.

EDIT: nevermind, we spied :/
 

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The flip side of all this comes down to something very simple:


Is anybody really surprised?

I suspect the German people are surprised.

I'm not and you're not, but probably they are. Now they know just how dirty the 800 pound Gorilla actually is.
 

Helix

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But but but..... when 'Merika does it they do it for the "good of the people", not for nefarious reasons....."we" do it for all the "right" reasons.

It's exhibit 12,335,562 for the argument that America should just go back to being a country for a while. This global superpower bull**** is more trouble than it's worth.
 

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Yes, it's certainly not okay.

Hope they'll do something about it. But my guess is Merkel will just crouch into Obama's ass and start defending this surveillance program.
 

Dittohead not!

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There is nothing new about spying.
There is nothing new about the US or any other nation denying that it is spying.
There is nothing new about people not believing their government when it denies spying.
The only thing new is the technology that allows spying to become so all encompassing.
 

Fisher

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U.S. taps half-billion German phone, internet links in month: report

as well.......


America!! America!!!!!! MerikA!!!!! MERIKA!!!!!

F yeah....

So who is going to defend this (if it proves to be true)?

I will assume it is true. They are not Americans and therefore are not entitled to the privileges and protection of American citizenship, so screw them.

That is pretty simple enough to defend. Now, it would be nice if Americans were to receive the privileges and protections of their citizenship in this regard, but that is wishful thinking thanks to George and Barack.
 

German guy

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I will assume it is true. They are not Americans and therefore are not entitled to the privileges and protection of American citizenship, so screw them.

That is pretty simple enough to defend. Now, it would be nice if Americans were to receive the privileges and protections of their citizenship in this regard, but that is wishful thinking thanks to George and Barack.

I would hope that being very close US allies inside NATO would mean something.

But it's not like the US govt is not doing it to their own citizens ...
 

Fisher

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I would hope that being very close US allies inside NATO would mean something.

But it's not like the US govt is not doing it to their own citizens ...

If you want to stop it, boycott General Motors cars until it is stopped. All US policy begins or ends with GM.
 

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If one were to take the shock and sense of betrayal that these Euro FM's are expressing at face value, one would have to conclude that European intelligence agencies are inept.
 

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So then, it's safe to say that amongst and between governments, trust is an oxymoron, an impossible situation?
 

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Thoreau72

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Trust, but verify.

Trust implies alot. It's either trust or it's not. Trust but verify is certainly smart, but trust implies that one party is not bugging the other's room or intercepting his emails.
 

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U.S. taps half-billion German phone, internet links in month: report

So who is going to defend this (if it proves to be true)?

I'm not going to defend it, but I will point a few huge fingers at congress. It's not first or foremost a partisan issue. It's an issue, to me, of the checks and balances system not working. Congress should be able to put a stop to this, but they're not doing it. Well, maybe that isn't surprising because they're really the ones who got this ball rolling. Members of congress know (and already knew when we found out) what's happening and they're not putting a stop to it! Mr. Smith is nowhere to be found, apparently.

The most ardent supporter of this kind of garbage is McCain. McCain is the guy who, time and time again, does the whole "this is a war" schtick. What congress needs to do is repeal the entire authorization nonsense (the AUMF). Every time the White House or Congress wants to do something illegal, they justify it by pointing at the AUMF and showing that these kind of tactics were legal when used against the Axis during WWI and WWII, so it should be legal when used against terrorists now. I'm guessing we all know this, but there is no state called Terrorististan. Without an enemy defined by borders or a common language or even arguably a common cause, the government's powers are being applied to everyone.

We're not going to see change happen in the White House. Every president strives for more power. This change has to happen in congress, and if that's not happening, we need to get rid of 'em. Get rid of McCain, Arizona. Please.
 

trfjr

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And you thought the world hated Bush At least they feared him, Now the world will hate Obama and not fear him If you going to have some one hate you its better that they fear you also
 

Mr. Invisible

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It's exhibit 12,335,562 for the argument that America should just go back to being a country for a while. This global superpower bull**** is more trouble than it's worth.

Whoa whoa whoa! Buddy! Do you know just how many military companies will be harmed when they aren't selling weapons to kill people around the world which help out other companies their businesses suffer and have to lay people off? I mean, have a heart man!
 

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I hope this blows up in the Governments' face big-time.

Bud, it ain't "America" doing this, it is our GOVERNMENT. They've grown beyond our control, and it is past time we took back the keys.

I kind of agree with this (If you want to know why that is just shoot me a PM and I'll explain it), but that would mean that people would have to get of Twitter and turn off "Toddlers in Tiaras" and get out on the streets and unfortunately, it doesn't seem that people will do that. So many seem content to be lied to by politicians on a regular basis.

Edit:


I'm not going to defend it, but I will point a few huge fingers at congress. It's not first or foremost a partisan issue. It's an issue, to me, of the checks and balances system not working. Congress should be able to put a stop to this, but they're not doing it. Well, maybe that isn't surprising because they're really the ones who got this ball rolling. Members of congress know (and already knew when we found out) what's happening and they're not putting a stop to it! Mr. Smith is nowhere to be found, apparently.

The most ardent supporter of this kind of garbage is McCain. McCain is the guy who, time and time again, does the whole "this is a war" schtick. What congress needs to do is repeal the entire authorization nonsense (the AUMF). Every time the White House or Congress wants to do something illegal, they justify it by pointing at the AUMF and showing that these kind of tactics were legal when used against the Axis during WWI and WWII, so it should be legal when used against terrorists now. I'm guessing we all know this, but there is no state called Terrorististan. Without an enemy defined by borders or a common language or even arguably a common cause, the government's powers are being applied to everyone.

We're not going to see change happen in the White House. Every president strives for more power. This change has to happen in congress, and if that's not happening, we need to get rid of 'em. Get rid of McCain, Arizona. Please.

The fact that Congress knew about this and didn't put a stop to it only shows that people have it wrong when they say "The system is broken." The system isn't broken. It was designed to work this way.
 
Last edited:

Helix

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Whoa whoa whoa! Buddy! Do you know just how many military companies will be harmed when they aren't selling weapons to kill people around the world which help out other companies their businesses suffer and have to lay people off? I mean, have a heart man!

i'm sure that we can find things for people to do other than making things that kill other people.
 
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