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U.S. and China agree to slash reciprocal tariffs in major step toward easing trade war (2 Viewers)

lol

For me it's the fear of what the reality will be in any type of real world meet up. I'd imagine it would be a lot of nervous laughter and even more side eye glances of, 'what the heck did I get myself into'.


Anyways, I think it's more fun imagining what people are like in real life.

I kinda' get that.

I did once have real-life meet-ups from a professional forum I was in, and they went well. Smooth and comfortable, and a few friendships were made. But then every member was a working professional.

I only had one other online forum experience, and thankfully on this one I remained anonymous. It was, ironically, a self-help forum. Quite a few members became acquainted in real life. And then, a subroup within literally imploded!

There were online threats, doxing, in person confrontations, accusations of stalking and property damage, and eventually supposed legal actions leading to a (claimed) order of protection and a civil suit!

As I anonymously from a distance watched this stuff go down over the period of several weeks, I told myself I would never, I mean NEVER, open myself-up to the possibility of being in such a situation.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!
 
So Trump blinked on his tariffs. Why am
I not celebrating like everyone else? I used the market euphoria surrounding this rally today as an opportunity to sell. Wake me up when the Fed breaks something and starts cutting rates again—like after a financial crisis or something. 🖖
 
We’re talking about China here. Hellooooo.
We’ve been f****d around by China long enough. Just like the border, he’s doing something about it.
Yes, charging us 30%. You must really love inflation!
 
ok is the deals being made better than what was before ?
So far, we have a “deal” with the UK where it costs us 10% more than it did before. How is it better or do you just live inflation?

Now, China says ”lower your tariff and we will talk.” Trump says ok. Now China agrees to talk. We are paying 30% more with that “deal.”

When are we going to get a deal that saves us money instead of costing us more?
 
So far, we have a “deal” with the UK where it costs us 10% more than it did before. How is it better or do you just live inflation?

Now, China says ”lower your tariff and we will talk.” Trump says ok. Now China agrees to talk. We are paying 30% more with that “deal.”

When are we going to get a deal that saves us money instead of costing us more?

I'd need links on all the above - if our businesses are getting deals exporting then yes its wins
 
I'll take your word for it that in practice it hasn't fleshed out that way. Theoretically he's right though.
If a seller (like China) has a 40% profit margin (just go with it), then can certainly cut pricing on their side to offset the tariff. It could also spur competition to more friendly trade partners.

Theoretically, in the short term it works similar to an excise tax and the respective elasticities of supply and demand. In an excise tax the charge is on the producer or supplier. In a tariff the tax is the demand side, the buyer. The "tax incidence", the degree to which each share the "tax incidence" and loss is dependent on the elasticities of each side.

And, in any event, there is also always what is called a deadweight loss, the lost economic benefits to both sides from reduced production and consumption aside from tax loss - meaning that the economic benefits of a full transaction is lost to both parties.

In your example, there is a 30 percent tariff on the gross price (then added to the current average of 21 percent) which will significantly reduce demand fro US business and consumers. Suppliers will then compare the difference between a much-reduced profit margin by lowering prices, and some will decide it either means going out of business or routing investments and production towards other industries and/or other customers with better margins. They may shift production to items that are more inelastic in American markets, things that American businesses and consumers must have and will pay for in spite of tariffs (eg rare earths or lithium batteries) as opposed to decorative or other items.

This isn't a matter of what they can do, it's a matter of what markets will do whenever prices or costs are mandated at other than market equilibrium prices.

The consumer in this case might certainly pay more for a similar product but if it is from a friendly instead of an adversary, it might have worth there .

I really wish that we would have started the balancing process ages ago (to keep some of the manufacturing here in the US) but we have no one to blame but ourselves for wanting things as cheap as possible.

Business is business. American value-added manufacturers large and small depend on supply chains where they are reliable, deliver sufficient quality, and do so at at the lowest cost that to secure profits (or stay in business) and they also measure it against opportunity cost. When they pay the 30 percent tax they do what the Chinese supply side does, start looking for products, customers, and suppliers who provide a better deal. Again, they will look for demand inelasticity, meaning change their business or customers to something people desperately need and who will tolerate price increases.

Again, some will go out of business, some will change to some other business, and some will cater to clients who are able and willing to still purchase at much higher prices. (which is how Toyota responded to US sale quotas in the 70s and 80s by switching to luxury cars, eroding US Auto makers dominance).

This issue is rather dated, one that was popular in the 1970s and 1980s and pretty much accepted as natural till Trump decided to pull it from the graveyard. Frankly, it didn't work when the US had a much stronger industrial base so there is no reason to believe that it can undo after the fact - or that he should undo it.

We are ahead because we are the world's reserve currency, it has been since WW2 our "gold", something of inherit value as a trustworthy currency managed by a trustworthy country. Anything that undermines that, from our increased deficit spending to Trumps attempt to disinter mercantilism is going the threaten that. Not being the adult in the room will have its consequences, and blowing up the international trade system will cost us dearly.

Trump has his economic priorities all wrong, first and foremost is finding a way to stop increasing federal borrowing much faster than our GDP growth. If not, none of this will matter.
 
Sounds like someone stomping their feet because they pulled their money out of the market.
Or, people being happy that what trump started, trump put on hold for 90 days.

Kinda like trump saying we are going to bomb all the countries in the world.
Then 6 weeks later, stating, how great it is that there's no bombs that will be dropped. For 90 days, anyways. What a win.
 
I'd need links on all the above - if our businesses are getting deals exporting then yes its wins
If you are not even aware of what the deals are, why are you posting about them? You can look them up.

There are provisions that should allow for more beef and ethanol to go to the UK. Helps a few farmers. Trump loves farmers! Of course that screws the other 99 percent of the country because less supply will mean higher prices here. I thought people were complaining about grocery prices being too high now!

The UK will be able to ship more steel here. I thought Trump wanted less imported steel.

Oh, well if you are desperate for anything you can call a deal I guess this is what you get!
 
And only a moron would accept the status quo and enjoy getting hosed in the process. Thank you sir. May I have another?😵‍💫
According to the post you responded to, we are at where we were 6 weeks ago. Still getting hosed if we were getting hosed 6 weeks ago.

What do you see as good, if we are the same today as 6 weeks ago? What moron's are we, getting hose then and now?
 
If you are not even aware of what the deals are, why are you posting about them? You can look them up.

There are provisions that should allow for more beef and ethanol to go to the UK. Helps a few farmers. Trump loves farmers! Of course that screws the other 99 percent of the country because less supply will mean higher prices here. I thought people were complaining about grocery prices being too high now!

The UK will be able to ship more steel here. I thought Trump wanted less imported steel.

Oh, well if you are desperate for anything you can call a deal I guess this is what you get!
If you are not capable of linking them, why are you posting about them?

Show where your information is coming from. And why it's trustworthy.
 
What? China dropped its tariffs to 10%. What do you mean we got nothing out of it?
What were they before? Less than 10%?
Are you cheering a 10% tariff as a win vs what it was before April?

...
But the de-escalation in President Donald Trump’s trade wars did nothing to resolve underlying differences between Beijing and Washington. The deal lasts 90 days, creating time for U.S. and Chinese negotiators to reach a more substantive agreement. But the pause also leaves tariffs higher than before Trump started ramping them up last month. And businesses and investors must contend with uncertainty about whether the truce will last.

U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer said the U.S. agreed to drop the 145% tax Trump imposed last month to 30%. China agreed to lower its tariff rate on U.S. goods to 10% from 125%.
 
Think of it:

We're turning to the CCP for transparency in information and free trade practices, in relation to our own country - The United States.

This photograph below, of a post-war European immigrant family looking from Ellis Island towards the Statue of Liberty, easily depicts what my grandparents on both sides, and one of my parents on one side, experienced. That statue was the first thing they saw as they were entering the harbor, welcoming them and giving them refuge.

They look longingly at the Statue for many reasons, but one is for the freedom it represents. Freedom which Hitler, Stalin, & Benito, took away from them. They came to know how precarious and fragile freedom & democracy were, and how precious they were

As much as I miss these family members that came before me, I'm glad they are not around to see this - what's occurring today. After all they endured back in the old country, you never saw anyone more patriotic and desiring and respectful of freedom, than my wartime immigrant grandparents. I'm dead serious about that.

Anyway . . .

2019_31_ellis_island_anoosh-scaled.jpg

*image courtesy newstateman.com

I think it is worth pointing out that those who came didn't have a safety net; none. They didn't expect a better life because of helping hands; the ONLY attraction this country offered was a chance to build a better life based on work, less corruption, and the freedom to pursue beyond their social class.

A digression:

A lot of folks don't know but Frank Capra was an immigrant. Born Francesco Rosario Capra in Bisacquino, a village near Palermo, Sicily, Italy. He was the youngest of seven children of Salvatore Capra, a fruit grower. In 1903, when he was five, Capra's family immigrated to the United States, traveling in a steerage compartment of a steamship Germania
Capra remembers the ship's arrival in New York Harbor, where he saw "a statue of a great lady, taller than a church steeple, holding a torch above the land we were about to enter". He recalls his father's exclamation at the sight:

Cicco, look! Look at that! That's the greatest light since the star of Bethlehem! That's the light of freedom! Remember that. Freedom.[10]

Corny as it sounds today, people really greeted the statue that way. Eventually he went to college at Cal Tech, played banjo in nightclubs, took odd jobs, studied chemical engineering and graduated in 1918.


1747106614035.png

This fellow changed direction and became a film director. He rose to become one of America's great directors, never forgetting what America meant to him and his family. This immigrant made four of the most iconic and compelling American films: Mr. Deeds Goes to Town, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Meet John Doe, and It’s a Wonderful Life. A heck of a lot more American than native born "art critics" who couldn't see that Capra tapped into the American identity of what we want to believe we are, or aspire to be.

Sometimes you have to be an immigrant to truely appreciate this country, and even though she is disliked by many Ayn Rand once quipped something true of immigrants of choice: heckled during a speech the heckler challenged her by asking "Why should we listen to a foreigner", she replied: “I chose to be an American. What did you ever do, except for having been born?”

PS And I might add he also did the classic WW2 series "Why we fight".
 
It sounds like perhaps your convictions were not as strong as your posts.


Of course perhaps you're being truthful and a few hours of research for your financial future wasn't worth the effort even in the face of a president you were certain was going to bring us on the verge of economic collapse.
So you are looking forward to stagflation and a prolonged recession? All Trump has to do is not screw it up and he could have sailed through with a strong growing economy and say it was all his doing. Now all he can do is lie about the rising inflation and the failing economy and talk about American children having too many dolls.
 
What were they before? Less than 10%?
Are you cheering a 10% tariff as a win vs what it was before April?

...
But the de-escalation in President Donald Trump’s trade wars did nothing to resolve underlying differences between Beijing and Washington. The deal lasts 90 days, creating time for U.S. and Chinese negotiators to reach a more substantive agreement. But the pause also leaves tariffs higher than before Trump started ramping them up last month. And businesses and investors must contend with uncertainty about whether the truce will last.

U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer said the U.S. agreed to drop the 145% tax Trump imposed last month to 30%. China agreed to lower its tariff rate on U.S. goods to 10% from 125%.

After further research I need to correct figures I provided earlier in the thread. I thought the "deals" were on top of the existing tariffs established in Trump's first term. They are not. In reality China's tariff on US products of 15 percent (on average) is now 10 percent. The US average on tariffs is now 30 percent, up from 21 percent in 2024.

The "justification" for these numbers can be two fold:

1. The gap between China's escalated tariff and the US escalated tariff was 20 percent (125 vs 145 percent). It is still 20 percent as both were lowered by equal amounts.
2. Trump originally imposed a 20 percent tariff on China for fentanyl. To that he added the 10 percent tariff currently on all nations.

I consider the universal 10 percent tax on all nations to be unlawful; however it is unclear if the 20 percent tax on China for fent constitutes a national emergency. If so, it may be legal.
 
Bessent is, per leaks, just covering Trump's ass for this boondoggle. He was intentionally cut out of the tariff loop, run by Navarro and Lutnick, because unlike these fools Bessent believes in negotiation over confrontation, and it was an unacceptable view when Trump and his yes men were on the bandwagon of tariffs being a done deal, not negotiable UNTIL the bond market scare elevated Bessent's voice and cordoned off the tariff crazy's.

Having created the crisis, the "announcement" is a partial retreat - prior rates were essentially mutual embargoes, which brought neither revenue nor products. None the less this "progress" towards sanity is merely slowing and softening what will still impose a massive tax on American business and consumers.

Ironically it is communist China that grasps market economics and rejects dogmatic arcane beliefs, far more than Trump and his couple of Tariff clowns. The Chinese climb down to 10 percent was a no brainer - it is high enough to suggest to the Chinese public that Chinese leadership is strong but inconsequential enough to allow Chinese import businesses and consumers to survive.

On the US side it is still a huge blow to American businesses and consumers, who purchase Chinese goods as the tariffs will now be 30 percent on top of existing tariffs.

Prior to Trump's first tariff war with China the average tariff on US goods in China was around 8 percent, and it was 3.4 percent in Ameria on Chinese goods.

Then till 2025 the average tariff on US Goods in China was initially 20 percent, later reduced to 15 percent, while US tariffs on China has been 21 percent. The "agreement" raises the average tariff rate on US goods to 25 percent (15 plus 10) and on Chinese goods to 51 percent (21 plus 30 percent).

So Trump's "victory" is that he gets to soak Americans in taxes for the goods that will now be bought, while the Chinese consumers prosper with much lower rates.

The more Trump "wins" the more Americans lose.

After doing a deeper dive on the current state of China vs US tariffs, a correction to my post above.

The following should be stricken: "The "agreement" raises the average tariff rate on US goods to 25 percent (15 plus 10) and on Chinese goods to 51 percent (21 plus 30 percent)."

Correction: The agreement REPLACES the prior average tariff rates by China (15%) and by the US (21%) with 10% and 30% respectively.
 
if our businesses are getting deals exporting then yes its wins
Trump's trade "deals" are picking winners and loser amongst American businesses. Something the GOP used to be against.

In the case of GB the market was opened up in limited amounts to American beef , that beef must meet GB's standards of hormone free and antibiotic free, but lets say the beef industry gains a small market share in GB. In your view is it OK that every single business that imports British goods in America gets to pay 10% more for those imports so that the beef industry MAY gain some market share?

To boot British cars had the tariff on them reduced from 25% to 10% which gives them an advantage over American cars. How does that help American business?

 
If that's the case, why weren't these thing negotiated one-on-one with China, firstly?

And why then was every country in the world, plus five or six non-countries, taxed as well?

Whatever problems you believe you may perceive, do not justify the massive chaotic destructive shyte-show taking place.
I think the administration should negotiate with China. But to an extent, the US and others have tried to negotiate with them on many of these, and have largely failed. For the most part, we've ignored it and accepted the cheap goods. We're a big part of the problem.

It's not every other country in the world with these issues. It's China. They are the ones treating people like dirt, ignoring intellectual property rights, pumping out pollution, etc.
 
Trump's trade "deals" are picking winners and loser amongst American businesses. Something the GOP used to be against.

In the case of GB the market was opened up in limited amounts to American beef , that beef must meet GB's standards of hormone free and antibiotic free, but lets say the beef industry gains a small market share in GB. In your view is it OK that every single business that imports British goods in America gets to pay 10% more for those imports so that the beef industry MAY gain some market share?

To boot British cars had the tariff on them reduced from 25% to 10% which gives them an advantage over American cars. How does that help American business?


reciprocal tariff's seem a good idea do they not ?
 
reciprocal tariff's seem a good idea do they not ?
Do you know what reciprocal means? How are any of these reciprocal? GB has 1.8 % on American goods and the US has 10% on British goods.
 
I'd need links on all the above - if our businesses are getting deals exporting then yes its wins

its up to trump and his minions to prove this helped overall. otherwise it was pain for no gain
 
reciprocal tariff's seem a good idea do they not ?

how are these "reciprocal tariffs"? the "reciprocal tariffs" were based, not on their tariffs, but on the balance of trade.
no, in and of itself, these "reciprocal tariffs" seemed like a bad idea.
 
how are these "reciprocal tariffs"? the "reciprocal tariffs" were based, not on their tariffs, but on the balance of trade.
no, in and of itself, these "reciprocal tariffs" seemed like a bad idea.
Not even. Take GB they had almost no tariffs on the US AND the US has a trade surplus with the US yet they got slammed witha 10 % tariff.
 
Not even. Take GB they had almost no tariffs on the US AND the US has a trade surplus with the US yet they got slammed witha 10 % tariff.
true, it was "minimum 10% and otherwise balance of trade" nonsense.
its almost as if trump was desperate to find a way to implement a regressive tax which disproportionately hurts lower income people, in other to justify extending tax cuts to people with more money.

but..that can't possibly be true! /s
 

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