U.S. and China agree to slash reciprocal tariffs in major step toward easing trade war (2 Viewers)

[dobieg]

"This time," maybe. What about the several yo-yos since this tariff charade started? The trickle down affects people's accounts and retirements, etc.

We're what......a couple points off the all time highs and all for a few weeks of disruption?

People who didn't panic are still up since the election and those who know just a little bit made out quite well.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It's super dumb to watch Trump pull a Biden. It sucks. Both were so horrible and outdated with their ideas.

Thankfully neither will ever be elected again.

Joe parks illegally, Don blows up entire parking lots. Metric Mouse's response: "It's super dumb to watch Don pull a Joe. It sucks. Both were so horrible and outdated with their ideas..."

To think that you actually believe you are being clever and no one sees through this.

 

[dairyair]

90 day pause. leaves tariffs on Chinese exports at 30% / US exports are 10%.. read the entire link for details

U.S. and China agree to slash reciprocal tariffs in major step toward easing trade war

The world’s two biggest economies agreed to a 90-day pause on most of their levies after a first round of trade talks in Switzerland over the weekend.

www.nbcnews.com

HONG KONG — The United States and China said Monday that they had agreed to a 90-day pause on most of the tariffs they have imposed on each other since last month, sending stocks soaring amid hopes of an easing trade war between the world's two largest economies.

Bessent rejected the suggestion that it might have been better to start with negotiations rather than announcing a series of tariffs that caused global financial turmoil, saying the U.S. had already tried to rebalance trade by working within the system and that “business as usual” would not have worked.

In an interview Monday morning on CNBC, Bessent said that the two countries now have "a mechanism to avoid the upward tariff pressure."

So we're back to where we were before April?
The past 6 weeks was just for fun?

 

[dobieg]

Only a MAGA moron would celebrate Trump backing down and kicking the can down the road as a win.
I thought they point of these tariffs was for them to get rid of their tariffs now temporarily pause the new tariffs for 90 days?

Sounds like someone stomping their feet because they pulled their money out of the market.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Takes 2 to tango. 90 day pause gives room for negotiations toward a trade agreement

A trade agreement to what end though?

The perennial problem with Trumps whole strategy on trade is that the Administration keeps giving mutually contradictory explanations for what their end goal actually is.

 

[iliveonramen]

This is pure insanity. A trade war that didn't exist until Trump started it, is being paused and treated like some victory, while ultimately Americans will be paying higher prices and there's no actual benefit of the trade war?

Everyone in America, citizens, businesses, the US government would have all been better off, if "Liberation Day" had never happened. Oh excuse me, some cattle farmers now have the ability to try and sell their beef in the UK. Forgot about that "big" win.

 

[Chomsky]

Bessent is, per leaks, just covering Trump's ass for this boondoggle. He was intentionally cut out of the tariff loop, run by Navarro and Lutnick, because unlike these fools Bessent believes in negotiation over confrontation, and it was an unacceptable view when Trump and his yes men were on the bandwagon of tariffs being a done deal, not negotiable UNTIL the bond market scare elevated Bessent's voice and cordoned off the tariff crazy's.

Having created the crisis, the "announcement" is a partial retreat - prior rates were essentially mutual embargoes, which brought neither revenue nor products. None the less this "progress" towards sanity is merely slowing and softening what will still impose a massive tax on American business and consumers.

Ironically it is communist China that grasps market economics and rejects dogmatic arcane beliefs, far more than Trump and his couple of Tariff clowns. The Chinese climb down to 10 percent was a no brainer - it is high enough to suggest to the Chinese public that Chinese leadership is strong but inconsequential enough to allow Chinese import businesses and consumers to survive.

On the US side it is still a huge blow to American businesses and consumers, who purchase Chinese goods as the tariffs will now be 30 percent on top of existing tariffs.

Prior to Trump's first tariff war with China the average tariff on US goods in China was around 8 percent, and it was 3.4 percent in Ameria on Chinese goods.

Then till 2025 the average tariff on US Goods in China was initially 20 percent, later reduced to 15 percent, while US tariffs on China has been 21 percent. The "agreement" raises the average tariff rate on US goods to 25 percent (15 plus 10) and on Chinese goods to 51 percent (21 plus 30 percent).

So Trump's "victory" is that he gets to soak Americans in taxes for the goods that will now be bought, while the Chinese consumers prosper with much lower rates.

The more Trump "wins" the more Americans lose.

This is a brilliant dissertation.

Yes - the end result is Chairman Xi is improving his citizenry's standard of living & quality of life, while Trump is decreasing ours.

Bloomberg doesn't pull any punches with this:

 

[Jredbaron96]

Actually, China blinked on April 24th when they started exempting US goods from tariffs after realizing they had no other source.

Trump had already instituted exceptions ten days prior.

List of products exempt from Trump tariffs including smartphones, laptops

Donald Trump has exempted a number of key tech imports from tariffs, with the full list revealed amid rising U.S.-China trade tensions.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Chomsky]

We’re not just talking about toys, clothes, small appliances here. There’s copyright infringement, patent protection, intellectual property rights, and on and on that the Chinese have refused to honor thereby stealing from the pockets of the owners. The Chinese don’t honor these because under communist ideology there’s no such thing as individual property rights.

That's fair.

But that's what should be addressed, not the destructive chaotic nonsense Trump is doing.

 

[Callen]

Sounds like someone stomping their feet because they pulled their money out of the market.

We didn't pull anything out but looks like a good 6 months of loss rather than even modest gains. We'll be lucky to end the year right back where we started except for 10% tariffs......and all for nothing.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Yes, one of the benefits of a trade deficit is access to affordable goods. This is at the cost of debt accumulation and potential economic vulnerability.

The US national debt and trade deficits are not the same thing.

 

[Napoleon]

Gentlemen, these are all valid points.

But this is not to be conflated with my purchasing my socks or my kids' toys.

If Trump were to target specific critical industries in a non-chaotic & beneficial manner, without disrupting our economy, I and those like me would not just not complain - but give him the credit he's due.

You can't cite righteous general policies, then exclude Trump's destructive actions. It don't work that way.

Oh, but that’s exactly how it works. China understands that consumerism is America’s undoing and it holds our fate in the palm of its hand. Americans shanked each other over chicken sandwiches and had fist fights over toilet paper for Christ’s sake. And we all know what happens when stores run out of product on Black Friday. When Americans can’t get what they want when they want it - civil unrest follows and that is a powerful tool in China’s arsenal to force the United States to back down in geopolitics.

That is how China operates in the world and builds its geopolitical strength. The U.S. operates by getting bogged down in pointless wars. Meanwhile, China is quietly using capitalism against the West and conquering through economics. Don’t underestimate the power of socks and children’s toys in a society obsessed with instant gratification and purchasing power to the point of violence.

Just look at the reaction to China’s tariffs here on DP. They aren’t even impacting prices yet and members, at least on the left, are demanding that an American President acquiesce to Xi Jinping. How far will you take that? What happens if China decides the punishment for any U.S. intervention in an invasion of Taiwan is that your socks and toys will be restricted, banned, or cost more? Are Americans gonna abandon Taiwan for ankle socks (at least in the arena of public opinion)? I do wonder.

 

[Chomsky]

People will only buy the product at +30% if they think it's worth +30%. For a lot of stuff, they won't. They'll buy something similar from another seller, or spend their money on something they think provides more value. That forces the exporter to reduce the price, or the importer to take a hit on the profit margin. In either case, the result is a product that may cost consumers more, but not +30%. People are pretty value-conscious.

Then what's the point? Besides Trump's feds making a 30% cut?

 

[gman]

Only a MAGA moron would celebrate Trump backing down and kicking the can down the road as a win.
I thought they point of these tariffs was for them to get rid of their tariffs now temporarily pause the new tariffs for 90 days?

And only a moron would accept the status quo and enjoy getting hosed in the process. Thank you sir. May I have another?

 

[dobieg]

This is a brilliant dissertation.

Yes - the end result is Chairman Xi is improving his citizenry's standard of living & quality of life, while Trump is decreasing ours.

Bloomberg doesn't pull any punches with this:

Honestly that's comical. First no one knows the ending framework for any deal and what China has given up (and they will be the side giving up the majority). And I fail to see how Chinese citizens who are in the middle of a major economic disruption in their country are now going to thrive by any measure. Their housing market which for decades is where the average Chinese citizen stored their wealth is in complete collapse and the Chinese government is struggling to put forth meaningful economic stimulus because they're running a debt to GOP of over 300%.

 

[Cope]

Then what's the point? Besides Trump's feds making a 30% cut?

Somewhere in their is the point that competition COULD arise.

I'm doubtful that competition arises here in the States as the cost of production would be much more than 30%, but other countries might be some.

 

[tharock220]

It didn't take a month before China capitulated.

 

[dobieg]

That's fair.

But that's what should be addressed, not the destructive chaotic nonsense Trump is doing.

Our politicians in DC have been addressing it for decades. Have you or anyone else seen any positives coming out of our leaders kindly explaining our concerns to China?

 

[Callen]

It didn't take a month before China capitulated.

Hoot!

 

[Metric Mouse]

Joe parks illegally, Don blows up entire parking lots. Metric Mouse's response: "It's super dumb to watch Don pull a Joe. It sucks. Both were so horrible and outdated with their ideas..."

To think that you actually believe you are being clever and no one sees through this.

Joe blows up a parking lot. Trump then bull doses rhe parking lot and makes it a toilet.

People support Joe Biden... and support Trump.

This is why no one takes you serously.

These guys were bad. Everyone knows it.

 

[Chomsky]

The Chinese are not working as slaves. More people in China have been lifted out of poverty over the last 40 years than anywhere else in the history of civilization.

I have spent a lot of time in China. The people working in those factories don’t live as well as we do but them live better than you think they do.

True story:

The owner of one of one of my local Chinese carry-out joints claims her newly minted accountant son, living with his parents and educated here in the States, found he could make more money via job offers he was getting when visiting China - vs working here in the States.

So, he packed his bags and went off the China.

I have no idea what to make of this? Was she speaking in terms starting wages? Or, greater financial opportunity? I dunno'. But she claimed the kid told her his job offers in China were for more money.

FWIW, my conversation with the mother took place sometime just before Covid.

 

[Chomsky]

Most real trade agreements take years to make. Besides Trump does not comply with his own trade agreements like the USMCA so what is the point? The point is that now Chinese goods will cost 30% more than under Biden for 90 days and after that who knows?

I'm surprised to see the tariffs decreased after only one weekend's meeting.

Obviously, both men wanted to end the embargo.

 

[dobieg]

Somewhere in their is the point that competition COULD arise.

I'm doubtful that competition arises here in the States as the cost of production would be much more than 30%, but other countries might be some.

If nothing else but a shift of production goes from China to India I would consider that a major win for not only us but the rest of the world. China's aggressive world wide ambitions must be tempered down and myself and many others consider them a far greater threat than Russia could ever be.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Joe blows up a parking lot. Trump then bull doses rhe parking lot and makes it a toilet.

People support Joe Biden... and support Trump.

This is why no one takes you serously.

These guys were bad. Everyone knows it.

Sure...

 

[Variant]

Good news. Hopefully this shifts some production away from China.

Nobody is going to plan production around a 90 day time-line. What were asking people to do is wait to plan things around whenever the president eventually makes a trade deal and pay more for things right now.