Twitter provides a great example of liberal blindness to hypocrisy.

[Fishking]

I would say that those arrested opposing the Kavanaugh appointment should have faced serious charges (I was taking a break from politics at the time so I don't have details handy in my mind) as it raises to a similar level of concern as the events of Jan 6. In that you have a similar circumstance of obstructing the procedures of appointing or confirming a top official. So you are right in terms of the level of crime and punishment.

On the other hand, there is a difference in the level of concern in the aspect that while these protests occurred, I do not believe that they ever held a threat against the continued existence of the government as we know it. I do not recall, for example, the joint chiefs having to make a statement that they support Kavanaugh. So in that case it was far less serious. So I disagree in terms of the threat it placed on the country.

I'm going to have to disagree with you and your example given actually supports my point, imo. Nearly everyone, to include this statement by the Joint Chiefs condemns the actions on the 6th. Law enforcement seems to be doing it's best to hold these people accountable. They have no allies, no support, no real numbers.

Conversely, in some of the examples I gave, those people were said to be brave and doing what's right, and had much more support in public discourse and in numbers. That instantly makes those on the 6th less of a threat.

But I appreciate that you're being more honest in your disagreement.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I'm going to have to disagree with you and your example given actually supports my point, imo. Nearly everyone, to include this statement by the Joint Chiefs condemns the actions on the 6th. Law enforcement seems to be doing it's best to hold these people accountable. They have no allies, no support, no real numbers.

Conversely, in some of the examples I gave, those people were said to be brave and doing what's right, and had much more support in public discourse and in numbers. That instantly makes those on the 6th less of a threat.

But I appreciate that you're being more honest in your disagreement.

I agree that they have no allies or real numbers, at least as far as I can tell, but the fact that such a statement is needed at all is a key detail in the difference in level of problem in terms of national security in Kavanaugh vs Jan 6. To me this means that the response by society (such as Parler losing support by amazon) is appropriate.

 

[Fishking]

I agree that they have no allies or real numbers, at least as far as I can tell, but the fact that such a statement is needed at all is a key detail in the difference in level of problem in terms of national security in Kavanaugh vs Jan 6. To me this means that the response by society (such as Parler losing support by amazon) is appropriate.

Why is Parler losing support by Amazon appropriate? I don't see how that fits here. Parler operates as a more truer platform. They didn't advocate for anything. If Twitter, Facebook, et al where significantly less bias in their moderation then there wouldn't have been been a need or siloing effect in Parler.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Why is Parler losing support by Amazon appropriate? I don't see how that fits here. Parler operates as a more truer platform. They didn't advocate for anything. If Twitter, Facebook, et al where significantly less bias in their moderation then there wouldn't have been been a need or siloing effect in Parler.

Because they failed to moderate their posts properly and become a legal concern.

Twitter and other social media needs to step up as well, but the key difference is that Parler had that sort of illegal activity as their business model. Its like asking AWS to host a company that promotes alternative medical therapies, but doesn't try to hide the fact that most of their therapies are really just cocaine.

 

[Fishking]

Because they failed to moderate their posts properly and become a legal concern.

Twitter and other social media needs to step up as well, but the key difference is that Parler had that sort of illegal activity as their business model. Its like asking AWS to host a company that promotes alternative medical therapies, but doesn't try to hide the fact that most of their therapies are really just cocaine.

Yeah...all the other ones are just as guilty if we talk about heir moderation of leftists. They were all used to coordinate and propagate messages during the riots. Imagine if Facebook or Twitter lost their hosting from Amazon during the riots and were rejected everywhere else. You'd probably see it as a problem then.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah...all the other ones are just as guilty if we talk about heir moderation of leftists. They were all used to coordinate and propagate messages during the riots. Imagine if Facebook or Twitter lost their hosting from Amazon during the riots and were rejected everywhere else. You'd probably see it as a problem then.

Not really, I don't use Twitter and I think its overall bad for emotional health, as is most social media.

The way social media operates helped to create the kind of narcissism that brought about things like QANON, Trump, and Jan 6 in the first place. Its hurting people of all political stripes though.

 

[Fishking]

Not really, I don't use Twitter and I think its overall bad for emotional health, as is most social media.

The way social media operates helped to create the kind of narcissism that brought about things like QANON, Trump, and Jan 6 in the first place. Its hurting people of all political stripes though.

Whether it's harmful or not isn't the issue. It's the influence it holds. The power of social media, and it's effects, cannot be downplayed. It's here, it's not going anywhere, and it does everything from effecting elections to effecting legislation and policies.

To say otherwise would be like saying the invention of the printing press was no big deal and not impactful on society and government.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Whether it's harmful or not isn't the issue. It's the influence it holds. The power of social media, and it's effects, cannot be downplayed. It's here, it's not going anywhere, and it does everything from effecting elections to effecting legislation and policies.

To say otherwise would be like saying the invention of the printing press was no big deal and not impactful on society and government.

I agree that this technology is very impactful, but you asked what I would thought if twitter or facebook were shut down due to illegal activities on their sites. The answer is, I would be fine with it.

The economic impact of it would suck and be painful for a lot of people though, so I would mourn that part.

 

[lwf]

1. They moderate more than abusive or dangerous language.
2. They also don't moderate abusive or dangerous language if it's coming from a leftist.

That's what you missed and that's how my comparison stands.

This is a false assumption. Conservatives are not persecuted. They are, in fact, the least persecuted group in America. They are just being held to the same standard that they hold others, and they don't like it.

 

[Fishking]

I agree that this technology is very impactful, but you asked what I would thought if twitter or facebook were shut down due to illegal activities on their sites. The answer is, I would be fine with it.

The economic impact of it would suck and be painful for a lot of people though, so I would mourn that part.

So if Twitter gets shut down but Parler stays up that's OK? Because that's the true reverse dynamic of what we have now.

 

[Fishking]

This is a false assumption. Conservatives are not persecuted. They are, in fact, the least persecuted group in America. They are just being held to the same standard that they hold others, and they don't like it.

It's not a false assumption. Any honest person understands this to be true.

 

[Slartibartfast]

So if Twitter gets shut down but Parler stays up that's OK? Because that's the true reverse dynamic of what we have now.

No, as I already pointed out the difference in content between the two companies. Twitter, for their flaws, is not a haven for illegal activity while I already pointed out that this was basically Parler's business model.

I wouldn't mind if twitter was shut down, its not good for society, but it would need to happen for a legitimate reason, and not for some bad attempt of false equivalency.

 

[lwf]

So if Twitter gets shut down but Parler stays up that's OK? Because that's the true reverse dynamic of what we have now.

If Twitter didn't moderate abusive language and dangerous rhetoric, but Parler did, then yes that would be fine.

 

[calamity]

It really does just leave me astounded at seeing the levels of hypocrisy that is displayed by the left. I'm not being hyperbolic. It's like they have the memory of a potato. We saw months and months of systemic violence, in cities across the nation on a much larger scale than on the 6th, but that's A-OK. It was more than 2 seconds ago so it doesn't exist.

Now Twitter is going on about how Uganda blocking social media apps and believing their should be competition in the market of ideas. Like...uhhh, no you don't. The hubris of it.
View attachment 67313220

The Right Wing whines about hypocrisy win the Irony Award for 2021, hands down.

 

[Fishking]

If Twitter didn't moderate abusive language and dangerous rhetoric, but Parler did, then yes that would be fine.

Neither do in any meaningful way so that falls flat.

 

[noonereal]

Talk about blindness - how can you not see the false equivalencies?.

Trumpism debate is logical fallacy dependent.

 

[Fishking]

The Right Wing whines about hypocrisy win the Irony Award for 2021, hands down.

*yawn*

 

[MamboDervish]

Trumpism debate is logical fallacy dependent.

Indeed - especially on this website, I'm beginning to learn. I'm still shocked at some of the posts coming from people who've been on this website a decade or longer. It's hard to believe they've learned nothing in all this time on DP.

 

[Visbek]

While I understand leftists are specifically told they are not allowed to think for themselves, this doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

Or, the alleged "Twitter Uganda hypocrisy!" was ricocheting around the RWEC shortly before you posted.

You think this only has to do with what happened leading up to the 6th and after?

Not at all. The Right Wing Victim Complex has been obvious for a long time now.

However, it is pretty clear that much of the right wing is desperate to bury 1/6 as quickly as possible. Social media companies finally taking action against the use of social media to incite and plan the overthrow of the government merely provides them a convenient and timely distraction.

By the way, Trump spent years violating Twitter's and Facebook's rules. It literally took a coup attempt for them to kick him off. Maybe you ought to think about that.

This has been going on for years and it involves more than locking out those that advocate overthrowing the government.

Yes, it also includes those who encourage violence against other people (like Steve Bannon), or who are abusive trolls (Milo Yiannopoulos), or are just aholes who are incapable of following the rules (Alex Jones).

Since right-wingers are wearing blinders and love a good victim narrative, they ignore how Twitter also suspends or boots left-wingers and Trump critics who also violate the rules, like Kathy Griffin, Rose McGowan, Smash Racism DC, the entire Cuban government, Unity 2000/Bret Weinstein, The Chaser (an Aussie comedy group that imitated Trump), and so on.

And they ignore how so many right-wingers aren't getting booted, including almost every Republican in Congress, notably Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz; every Republican governor; the Arizona RNC, which went totally insane after the election; Rush Limbaugh; The National Review; Newsmax; OANN; Fox News; Hannity; Carlson.... the list goes on.

The reality is that if right wingers are getting disciplined more, it's because at this point in time, they are a) far, far more likely to traffic in harmful conspiracy theories than the left; b) they are far, far more likely to use social networks to incite and plan violence against the state; and c) they're just being bigger aholes.

What stupidly dishonest framing. For example, we had the Hunter Biden story locked down real quick only for the news to open about about it being a real thing after the election.

lol... what a crock.

The Hunter Biden story was a nothingburger that got plenty of column inches in the MSM -- despite the fact that Fox, the Post and WSJ refused to share the hacked files with other media outlets. Ultimately, even they determined that there was nothing there. (That's what you get these days when you trust Rudy Giuliani, a guy who butt-dials reporters and regularly falls for Russian propaganda.)

We also didn't hear about the Hunter Biden tax investigation -- which was totally unrelated to the laptop nonsense -- until after the election, because... Barr decided to actually do his job. Believe me, I'm shocked by his choice, as he repeatedly sided with Trump over the law or DoJ policy before. Anyway: Existing rules are that the DoJ can't take investigative actions (including publicly announce investigations) that might influence an election before the election happens. I might add that Comey violated that rule, and got a ton of heat for it.

I'm *cough* soooo sorry that your team's attempted "October Surprise" didn't work. But take heart, they almost never do.

I don't give a ****. Twitter has no standing to complain about anyone losing platform.

Well then, I guess you don't give a crap about being a hypocrite who doesn't pay attention to what he is actually objecting.

Nope...they should just lose their Section 230 protections.

LOL... Yet another nonsensical right-wing talking point.

If you give the government the power to selectively remove 230 protections, well... Guess who's in office? Democrats control the Presidency and Congress. You sure that's what you want...?

Since you missed it, canceling 230 protections would require those services to be EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE. Without them, they are liable for user content, which means they will scrub the daylights out of everything that gets posted. And if you think that they're too heavy-handed now, that will only make it 1000 times worse.

Since you missed it, right-wing sites rely on 230 as well. That includes Fox News, Breitbart, Newsmax, OANN, gun enthusiast forums, you name it. Without 230, they will all have to heavily moderate or shut down any user-generated content.

Leave it to Trump to devise a "punishment" that would backfire immediately on himself the right wing.

 

[Fishking]

Or, the alleged "Twitter Uganda hypocrisy!" was ricocheting around the RWEC shortly before you posted.

Not at all. The Right Wing Victim Complex has been obvious for a long time now.

However, it is pretty clear that much of the right wing is desperate to bury 1/6 as quickly as possible. Social media companies finally taking action against the use of social media to incite and plan the overthrow of the government merely provides them a convenient and timely distraction.

By the way, Trump spent years violating Twitter's and Facebook's rules. It literally took a coup attempt for them to kick him off. Maybe you ought to think about that.

Those are a lot of feelings you have their Comrade Visbek. You certain have issue with people that think differently having a voice.

Since right-wingers are wearing blinders and love a good victim narrative, they ignore how Twitter also suspends or boots left-wingers and Trump critics who also violate the rules, like Kathy Griffin, Rose McGowan, Smash Racism DC, the entire Cuban government, Unity 2000/Bret Weinstein, The Chaser (an Aussie comedy group that imitated Trump), and so on.

They let so many direct threats stay on their platform it's ridiculous. I've specifically reported direct threats and the Tweets remain up. Face it, these companies are scare of the leftist mobs, and leftists are prone to mob mentality. It infects companies all over the place. They try and band together in subversive manners from inside companies and outside. They tried to get Rogan deplatformed from Spotify but Rogan at least is worth way too much for them to be bullied into giving it up. The little people don't have that luxury.

The reality is that if right wingers are getting disciplined more, it's because at this point in time, they are a) far, far more likely to traffic in harmful conspiracy theories than the left; b) they are far, far more likely to use social networks to incite and plan violence against the state; and c) they're just being bigger aholes.

Riiight, right, right, right. We totally haven't had 4 years of sustained leftwing violence with a whole summer of significant levels of leftwing violence on a systemic level. Nothing to see here. The left is super-duper rational. What color is the sky in your world?

The Hunter Biden story was a nothingburger that got plenty of column inches in the MSM -- despite the fact that Fox, the Post and WSJ refused to share the hacked files with other media outlets. Ultimately, even they determined that there was nothing there. (That's what you get these days when you trust Rudy Giuliani, a guy who butt-dials reporters and regularly falls for Russian propaganda.)

We also didn't hear about the Hunter Biden tax investigation -- which was totally unrelated to the laptop nonsense -- until after the election, because... Barr decided to actually do his job. Believe me, I'm shocked by his choice, as he repeatedly sided with Trump over the law or DoJ policy before. Anyway: Existing rules are that the DoJ can't take investigative actions (including publicly announce investigations) that might influence an election before the election happens. I might add that Comey violated that rule, and got a ton of heat for it.

Such a crock that no one has denied the information wasn't true.

LOL... Yet another nonsensical right-wing talking point.

If you give the government the power to selectively remove 230 protections, well... Guess who's in office? Democrats control the Presidency and Congress. You sure that's what you want...?

Since you missed it, canceling 230 protections would require those services to be EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE. Without them, they are liable for user content, which means they will scrub the daylights out of everything that gets posted. And if you think that they're too heavy-handed now, that will only make it 1000 times worse.

You think this because well....it's not reason, to be sure. What you say is true, but it's only one option on the table. They can stick with their current practices and lose 230 protections and attempt to be a lot more restrictive and fail because they couldn't hope to moderate all of that and get sued into bankruptcy. Or, they could change their moderation policies and moderate in a more fair and reasonable non-partisan manner without all the censorship and keep 230 protections. It's not surprising that that option didn't occur to you because you can only think in a manner of authoritarianism. You can't conceive of concepts that doesn't require top-down control.

For example, this site has moderation but there isn't a political bent to it. You can start a controversial thread about transwomen not actually being women and it will remain and debated or w/e. What happens on Twitter if you post the same? You're gone. That's just one example.

 

[AmNat]

It's not about winning. It's about stopping the insanity.

Showing that liberals are hypocrites won’t stop (or slow down) the insanity. They don’t care. The only enduring principle the left holds is that good is what’s good for the left.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Showing that liberals are hypocrites won’t stop (or slow down) the insanity. They don’t care. The only enduring principle the left holds is that good is what’s good for the left.

You are absolutely correct. We don't give a rats ass what Republicans "think". Republicans have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are brainwashed cavemen. What I find amusing is that Trump's base supporters dont realize how disgusting trump finds them. They don't realize how embarrassed he was while watching the capital riots and seeing what his typical base supporter actually looked like "in action".

 

[Fishking]

You are absolutely correct. We don't give a rats ass what Republicans "think". Republicans have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are brainwashed cavemen. What I find amusing is that Trump's base supporters dont realize how disgusting trump finds them. They don't realize how embarrassed he was while watching the capital riots and seeing what his typical base supporter actually looked like "in action".

If it was typical it wouldn't have been so shocking, so your rhetoric falls short of reality. However, if it was leftists doing the same thing we'd see that as typical because that's what they've been doing for a while now. It's become so normalized that people forget how much violence the left has actually done over the recent years.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

If it was typical it wouldn't have been so shocking, so your rhetoric falls short of reality. However, if it was leftists doing the same thing we'd see that as typical because that's what they've been doing for a while now. It's become so normalized that people forget how much violence the left has actually done over the recent years.

I did not say I found it typical or shocking. I said I found it amusing. As in Republicans are now clowns for my amusement. And now Trump's base are clowns for his embarrassment. Soon we'll have 74 million trumpees brought to their knees by feelings of unrequited love for their cult leader who's actions abandoned them.. Boo...... Hoo

 

[Fishking]

I did not say I found it typical or shocking. I said I found it amusing. As in Republicans are now clowns for my amusement. And now Trump's base are clowns for his embarrassment. Soon we'll have 74 million trumpees brought to their knees by feelings of unrequited love for their cult leader who's actions abandoned them.. Boo...... Hoo

"I didn't say the words that I said!"

They don't realize how embarrassed he was while watching the capital riots and seeing what his typical base supporter actually looked like "in action".