Turks get pissy about the fact that they're reminded of genocide

[The_Penguin]

A US congressional panel has described the killing of Armenians by Turkish forces during World War I as genocide, despite White House objections.

The resolution was narrowly approved by the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Turkey, a key US ally, responded by recalling its ambassador in Washington for consultations. It has fiercely opposed the non-binding resolution.

The White House had warned that the vote would harm reconciliation talks between Turkey and Armenia.

The resolution calls on President Barack Obama to ensure that US foreign policy reflects an understanding of the "genocide" and to label the World War I killings as such in his annual statement on the issue.

It was approved by 23 votes to 22 by the committee.

-snip-

BBC News - US Congress panel accuses Turkey of Armenian 'genocide'

Someone get Turkey a WHHAAAAAMBULLLAAAANCE.

 

[Ikari]

So....how long ago was that now? Why are we worrying about something like this now? Done deal, it's in the past. We're not passing resolutions against Germany for their actions during WW II still, are we? Then why pass them against Turkey for their actions in WW I? Doesn't make sense.

 

[The_Penguin]

So....how long ago was that now? Why are we worrying about something like this now? Done deal, it's in the past. We're not passing resolutions against Germany for their actions during WW II still, are we? Then why pass them against Turkey for their actions in WW I? Doesn't make sense.

Germany admitted its crimes, erected monuments in remembrance of it, continues to teach its children about them and has paid reparations to victims and some of their relatives.

Turkey has done none of this and in addition to that denies that even happened.

Imagine if you saw the German chancellor come out and say that the Holocaust never happened...

And I gotta say, love the attitude about "it's in the past, so who gives a damn" .

 

[Khayembii Communique]

So....how long ago was that now? Why are we worrying about something like this now? Done deal, it's in the past. We're not passing resolutions against Germany for their actions during WW II still, are we? Then why pass them against Turkey for their actions in WW I? Doesn't make sense.

This is the second place I've seen you post this. The reason that it is signifcant today is because the issue of the Armenians is a very touchy issue even to this day.

As an analogy, you might consider the internment of Japanese during WW2 as "in the past," as do most people. But do you really think that would be the case if Japanese were still treated as second class citizens and widely discriminated against?

The reason that this is still a relevant issue is because the tensions that caused the genocide still exist today.

 

[Wiseone]

Its not worth damaging US-Turkish relations in my opinion to keep bringing this up. But the house does this ever few years I think the Turks expect it.

 

[the makeout hobo]

So....how long ago was that now? Why are we worrying about something like this now? Done deal, it's in the past. We're not passing resolutions against Germany for their actions during WW II still, are we? Then why pass them against Turkey for their actions in WW I? Doesn't make sense.

Because the past matters. If we teach people about the events of the past, they're more likely to learn its lessons.

 

[bub]

BBC News - US Congress panel accuses Turkey of Armenian 'genocide'

Someone get Turkey a WHHAAAAAMBULLLAAAANCE.

It's incredible that they still deny this genocide. I don't really understand their point, they say that "it was under the ottoman empire so it's not our fault" or simply "it did not happen"?

 

[Manc Skipper]

So when they shut down Incirlik airbase, close their airspace to Iraq flights, and make access to Afghanistan even more difficult, it will be worth the inconvenience?

 

[PeteEU]

It's incredible that they still deny this genocide. I don't really understand their point, they say that "it was under the ottoman empire so it's not our fault" or simply "it did not happen"?

Very few nations are in acceptance of genocides done by them in the past.. Germany is almost unique when it comes to that.

 

[Slartibartfast]

So when they shut down Incirlik airbase, close their airspace to Iraq flights, and make access to Afghanistan even more difficult, it will be worth the inconvenience?

It is, if it prompts us to leave more quickly.

 

[Ikari]

Germany admitted its crimes, erected monuments in remembrance of it, continues to teach its children about them and has paid reparations to victims and some of their relatives.

Turkey has done none of this and in addition to that denies that even happened.

Imagine if you saw the German chancellor come out and say that the Holocaust never happened...

And I gotta say, love the attitude about "it's in the past, so who gives a damn" .

What about Japan then? They've done some bad thing. Have the English admitted to all the bad stuff they did as an Empire? Have we apologized for the American Indians? And all the countries we've ****ed over and up with black ops? Hmm? No you say? So why Turkey? Why now?

 

[Apocalypse]

What about Japan then? They've done some bad thing. Have the English admitted to all the bad stuff they did as an Empire? Have we apologized for the American Indians? And all the countries we've ****ed over and up with black ops?

I didn't know that any of the above countries deny known misdeeds.

Please provide a basis.

 

[Ikari]

It's incredible that they still deny this genocide. I don't really understand their point, they say that "it was under the ottoman empire so it's not our fault" or simply "it did not happen"?

Is not the Ottoman Empire different government from the current Turkey government? Or can we hold all present day governments responsible for the actions of Empires of old?

It's not saying that it didn't happen or not acknowledging the act. But at some point I think the statute of limitations have hit and you cannot condemn and hurt a people over stuff they did not do. I think this has more to do with their current desire of getting into the EU than anything else.

 

[Ikari]

I didn't know that any of the above countries deny known misdeeds.

Please provide a basis.

Japan hasn't owned up to hardly any of the crap it did against China. Italy hasn't apologized for the misdeeds of the Roman Empire. Since we're digging up things from long ago. Though Japan's actions against China weren't so long ago; but both sides did atrocious things to the other and each side believes themselves justified in it.

 

[Apocalypse]

Japan hasn't owned up to hardly any of the crap it did against China. Italy hasn't apologized for the misdeeds of the Roman Empire. Since we're digging up things from long ago. Though Japan's actions against China weren't so long ago; but both sides did atrocious things to the other and each side believes themselves justified in it.

I want to see the articles where any of the previous post's mentioned nations have denied that they have taken such misdeeds.

 

[ido_]

Is not the Ottoman Empire different government from the current Turkey government? Or can we hold all present day governments responsible for the actions of Empires of old?

It's not saying that it didn't happen or not acknowledging the act. But at some point I think the statute of limitations have hit and you cannot condemn and hurt a people over stuff they did not do. I think this has more to do with their current desire of getting into the EU than anything else.

For my understanding its not that the Congress accused the current Turkish goverment in the Ottoman empire's wrong doing, they simply decleared they recognize the fact that the Armenians were being genocide by Turks in WWI. Not many countries did so until present day and you should be proud that your goverment isn't motivated by politics when it comes to facing history's known facts.

 

[Apocalypse]

For my understanding its not that the Congress accused the current Turkish goverment in the Ottoman empire's wrong doing, they simply decleared they recognize the fact that the Armenians were being genocide by Turks in WWI. Not many countries did so until present day and you should be proud that your goverment isn't motivated by politics when it comes to facing history's known facts.

He should be proud of the congress, Clinton and Obama have tried to silence the congress down and to prevent the decision from being brought to light.

 

[Ikari]

I want to see the articles where any of the previous post's mentioned nations have denied that they have taken such misdeeds.

I want to see articles where they have apologized for any of those misdeeds. Also, did we get an apology for the Spanish Inquisition?

 

[Ikari]

For my understanding its not that the Congress accused the current Turkish goverment in the Ottoman empire's wrong doing, they simply decleared they recognize the fact that the Armenians were being genocide by Turks in WWI. Not many countries did so until present day and you should be proud that your goverment isn't motivated by politics when it comes to facing history's known facts.

But why now? If this was such a pressing thing, a necessary action; why now? We had nearly 100 years to do this, but didn't. Have we then made similar things against other peoples? Like Japan or China for their wars against each other? Against the old British Empire? Should the Queen of England apologize for the imperialism of the British Empire? Or should we issue some statement declaring their actions as actions of a tyrant against the entire peoples of the world? I don't get it. It doesn't seem like anything positive or productive. Humans have done ****ed up things ever since we've showed up on this planet. Should every new generation then have to release a written apology for all the actions of all the previous generations?

What's really happening? Why is it now and why is it Turkey? The timing is suspicious.

 

[Apocalypse]

I want to see articles where they have apologized for any of those misdeeds. Also, did we get an apology for the Spanish Inquisition?

Do they, or do they not deny that such actions have occurred?

 

[Apocalypse]

What's really happening? Why is it now and why is it Turkey? The timing is suspicious.

Timing? What are you talking about?

It's not the first time that the congress makes such a decision in regard to the Armenian genocide.

 

[Ikari]

Do they, or do they not deny that such actions have occurred?

I don't see Turkey denying that the actions took place. Just that they took place under the Ottoman Empire and thus modern Turkey had nothing to do with it. And Japan did try to omit all the stuff about their actions against China from their history books and such not so long ago.

 

[Andalublue]

Of course the Turks get pissed off by this kind of thing. They get pissed off because:

1. It occurred almost 100 years ago, before Turkey even existed.
2. Massacres were committed by troops of the Ottoman Empire - 35% of which were not even Turkish - and yet is constantly blamed 100% on Turkey.
3. Comparable acts of genocide are ignored (British behaviour towards Zulus and Boers in S. Africa; genocide of Native Americans, Australian Aborigines, Congolese by the Belgians; Amazonian Indians by the Brazilians and others; the Kulaks by the Russians - it's an endless list)
4. Turkey and Armenia are in a process of normalisation of relations. This doesn't help.
5. Evidence of a systematic policy of extermination, necessary for a charge of genocide to be levelled, cannot be proven.

Whilst the publicity this latest outburst has brought will cause annoyance amongst the Turkish nation generally, it won't have much effect other than to further alienate yet another of the US's closest former allies.

 

[Apocalypse]

I don't see Turkey denying that the actions took place. Just that they took place under the Ottoman Empire and thus modern Turkey had nothing to do with it.

It's great that you wish to increase your knowledge by debating on issues you have no knowledge on, but please do your homework before making such statements.

The Republic of Turkey (as well as modern Azerbaijan[4]) does not accept that the Ottoman authorities attempted to exterminate the Armenian people.[5] Turkey acknowledges that during World War I many Armenians died, but counters that Turks died as well, and claims that the number of Armenian victims have been inflated, and that massacres were committed by both sides as a result of inter-ethnic violence and the wider conflict of World War I.[5] The denial of the Armenian Genocide is often identified by genocide scholars and historians as a crucial symbolic and ideological process which follows every genocide and which is intended to desensitize and to make possible the emergence of new forms of genocidal violence in the future.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Armenian_Genocide]Denial of the Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[NoJingoLingo]

So when they shut down Incirlik airbase, close their airspace to Iraq flights, and make access to Afghanistan even more difficult, it will be worth the inconvenience?

Yeah, poor USA what will we do when our "allies" turn on us? You know what we do? We tell Turkey to **** off then, no more money or support of any kind from us.

Let's wait and see if Obama has a dick or a ***** on this issue.