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Source: Today's Zaman
I read in Debka that Turkey may even be using the UAVs they purchased from Israel to assist the Syrians.
Turkey has decided to move its fight against the terrorist Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) beyond the Iraqi border and continue the fight in the field.
The most important leg of this plan relies on the support of Iran and Syria against the terrorist group. A senior government official who spoke to Today’s Zaman on condition of anonymity said Turkey will be working closely with these two countries to block any escape routes in the region once the terrorist group is cornered in northern Iraq.
Preliminary signs of this cooperation have already emerged with Iran capturing and executing 29 PKK members in the past six months. Seventeen PKK militants were extradited to Turkey. Syria launched a military campaign against the group, killing 185 terrorists and arresting 400 others. Some 160 of these will be extradited to Turkey, while Germany returned three PKK members to Turkey very recently in what was a first in that country’s history.
Yes, and they are massacring hundreds if not thousands...where is the public outcry? The jews kill 9 terrrorists, and the press/EU/UN are screaming - the Syrians murder a thousand CIVILIANS - and not A DAMN PEEP.
Source: Today's Zaman
I read in Debka that Turkey may even be using the UAVs they purchased from Israel to assist the Syrians.
There is a pretty huge difference. For one, despite Israeli propaganda to the contrary the people on the flotilla were not terrorists. For another it was a ship carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza making an attack on it much more horrendous. Lastly, there was considerable media presence during the event, which I doubt is the case here. We do not know how many people have actually been killed or who they are. You claim they're mostly civilians based off nothing and Syria claims they're all terrorists. Obviously it's somewhere in the middle, but without knowing much about what is going on the media has little to actually report.
There is a pretty huge difference. For one, despite Israeli propaganda to the contrary the people on the flotilla were not terrorists. For another it was a ship carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza making an attack on it much more horrendous.
Lastly, there was considerable media presence during the event, which I doubt is the case here. We do not know how many people have actually been killed or who they are.
You claim they're mostly civilians based off nothing
and Syria claims they're all terrorists. Obviously it's somewhere in the middle, but without knowing much about what is going on the media has little to actually report.
I am not a fan of yours, so i'll cut to the chase - why did the one boat with the hostile, armed IHH members suffer casualties, while the other boats without the IHH members had no issues?
Then ask why Germany has just banned this group, with other EU nations soon to follow.
And tell us why the media coverage is more honest covering the flotilla event than this one? Agenda of yours, where arab muslims/muslims are always right, devoid of failure?
WTF? It is the ARTICLE that claims it, not me....
Except Syria, who murdered 20,000 people in Hama in 1982, is a fascist dictatorship, and cannot be trusted. So why would any sane person accept anything that a nation like Syria would say?
But clubbing/beating the crap out of the fully expected boarding force does Disqualify them as Unarmed/Non-violent Peace demonstrators they represented themselves as.The people on the other boats did not resist. Resisting aggression does not make anyone a terrorist.
The Israeli fleet commander radiod pre-boarding to divert to Ashdod and All the cargo would be trucked to Hamas under the the 'Peace' groups own supervision, But screened by israel for weapons.If Israel had allowed the ships to pass they would have delivered their humanitarian aid without consequence or detriment to Israel and no one would have died. The fact these ships do not pose any military threat to Israel is what caused the outcry.
But clubbing/beating the crap out of the fully expected boarding force does Disqualify them as Unarmed/Non-violent Peace demonstrators they represented themselves as.
The Israeli fleet commander radiod pre-boarding to divert to Ashdod and All the cargo would be trucked to Hamas under the the 'Peace' groups own supervision, But screened by israel for weapons.
The Flotilla refused. "Negative, Negative, our destination is Gaza". Video previously posted.
Turkey, like any other sovereign state, has an inherent right of self-defense. IMO, Turkey is wholly justified in combatting the PKK terrorist organization. Its cooperating with other regional actors to deal with the terrorist threat makes sense.
But it is not accetable if they do not take at least some precautions to protect civilians.
We may find that Turkey is going the bandit nations like Iran. If so they will need to be dealt with accordingly.
But it is not accetable if they do not take at least some precautions to protect civilians.
We may find that Turkey is going the bandit nations like Iran. If so they will need to be dealt with accordingly.
Do you have any evidence to suggest Turkey is not taking the necessary precautions?
Last i checked the civilian death toll was much less than that of Israel's. You need to remember our nation is a Democratic one that wishes to avert problems with its Kurds and to progress with Democracy so as to continue to destroy the PKK support base.
Using "Turkey" and "Iran" in the same sentence is insulting. It is misleading to try and compare a democratic member and one of the largest assets in NATO as anything close to, or resembling, Iran.
Nice try. Turkey attempted to give Iran cover for it's nuclear program but was not allowed to go forward.
NATO is a relic, not sure what use it is in today's world. Saying that, I read that your FM met with Hamas today and they seem to have an allegiance that does not seem to align itself with NATO or the EU which I am sure will never let a nation like Turkey enter their federation.
You got proof of that? This isn't the conspiracy theory thread. It was a last ditched attempt by Brazil and Turkey to broker a deal Germany and the US offered last year, but it wasn't ambitious enough. It was a start, and i think it shows that a deal may still be possible with Iran.
Iran is on our border, whether we, or you, like it or not. America can afford to embargo and ignore it but we cannot. It's also our region and our economy that suffers the domino affect of a restricted Iranian economy and it was only natural we acted, to whatever degree, to create some kind of atmosphere of peace.
Post a link so i can read on this "alignment" stuff you talk of.
Secondly, its a brave and risky card to play. But Davutoglu has already made it clear he will bring everybody into the equation should a peace deal be brokered and yes, that includes Hamas. Dialogue goes a long way.
Do you have any evidence to suggest Turkey is not taking the necessary precautions?
Last i checked the civilian death toll was much less than that of Israel's. You need to remember our nation is a Democratic one that wishes to avert problems with its Kurds and to progress with Democracy so as to continue to destroy the PKK support base.
Using "Turkey" and "Iran" in the same sentence is insulting. It is misleading to try and compare a democratic member and one of the largest assets in NATO as anything close to, or resembling, Iran.
Update: Kurds in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaBehind army lines in the Turkish province of Siirt, scores of frightened refugees were on the run. They were Kurdish families, fleeing a village that had recently been burned by the Turkish army. When I caught up to them, they were fording the Tigris River, guiding a long line of donkeys laden with refrigerators and other goods. In the village, most of the houses were in Ashes. Only a handful of residents had returned to scavenge some of their belongings. The local mayor told me that an army commander, accompanied by a group of government-armed village guards, had arrived and given residents 24 hours to get out of town. Some quickly dug holes in the outlying fields to bury valuables; others just gathered up what they could carry and abandoned the rest.
[............]
At 25 million, the Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without their own state....
After World War I, Kurds hoped to create a homeland from the wreckage of the Ottoman Empire, but those dreams vanished with the birth of the Turkish Republic in 1923. Riding a wave of nationalism, Mustafa Kemal--known as Ataturk, "the Father of the Turks"--imposed a single identity on the multicultural population of Turkmans, Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, and others. Most minorities were forcibly assimilated; everyone became a Turk.
[.............]
The war in Turkey represents the single Largest use of U.S. weapons anywhere in the world by non-U.S. forces, according to Bill Hartung of the World Policy Institute..... In 15 years of fighting in Turkey nearly 40,000 lives have been lost, More than in the conflicts on the West Bank and in Northern Ireland combined.
The Two MILLION refugees produce by the war in Kurdistan are roughly the number of homeless created by the widely reported war in Bosnia..."
Despite these statistics, the civil strife in Turkey has received comparatively little coverage in the U.S. media. Television news rarely mentions the Kurds, unless the story relates to the Iraqi Kurds. It is almost as though there are two sets of Kurds--the Kurds in Iraq, who seem to be viewed as the "good" Kurds because they oppose Saddam, and the Kurds in Turkey, who are "bad" because they oppose a U.S. ally. It doesn't seem to matter that there are four times as many Kurds in Turkey, or that both populations have suffered repression from their respective governments.
Until 1991, Kurdish Music and Language, Dress, Associations, and Newspapers were Banned by the Turkish government. After the Gulf War, Kurdish printing was legalized, but in the intervening years numerous Kurdish newspaper offices have been bombed and closed. More than a dozen Kurdish journalists, as well as numerous politicians and activists, have been killed by death squads (human rights groups list more that 4,000 extrajudicial killings during the period). Despite 15 years of fighting the PKK, Turkey today has no POWs; most rebels, according to the government, have been "captured dead." But there are large numbers of civilian Kurds in Turkish prisons where, according to organizations like Amnesty International, the use of torture is routine.
Kurdish TV and radio are still illegal in Turkey, although the government has promised to soften the ban. The Kurdish language still may not be taught in schools or used by merchants on storefronts or in advertising. It is illegal in Turkey for parents to give their child a Kurdish name....
Human rights
Turkey's treatment of its citizens of Kurdish origin has been a frequent subject of international criticism.[1] Kurds have largely resisted assimilation policies of the government. The main strategy for assimilation has been suppression of the Kurdish language. Nevertheless, Kurdish is widely spoken.[2][15]
The period immediately following the 1980 Turkish coup d'état was particularly oppressive (not just in respect to ethnic Kurds), when use of Kurdish language in public was banned. The ban was lifted in 1991 during the presidency of Turgut Özal, who was of partial Kurdish descent.[16]
Turkish remains the only official language, and the use of any other language is not allowed in political life or public services. In 2003, the Turkish Parliament eased restrictions on Kurdish language rights in Turkey, however Kurds are largely banned from giving their children Kurdish names.[...]
There is a pretty huge difference. For one, despite Israeli propaganda to the contrary the people on the flotilla were not terrorists.
For another it was a ship carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza making an attack on it much more horrendous.
Not sure where we are going here. You ask for proof then talk yourself about the deal Turkey worked out with Iran.
Turkey is in a interesting place. For a time it seemed they wanted to be part of the EU, and worked with the West. From what I understand the EU has rebuffed Turkey. Turkey now is looking to be a force in the ME. Good for them. They can choose Iran and Hamas and perhaps that will work for their leaders heading into an election. Maybe they hope to pick up business from Iran and Hamas that Europe increasing is uneasy with.
It will be interesting to see if Israel starts cutting off sales of military equipment to this regime. I certainly hope so. Dealing with a government like this can only get Israel mired in this problem of civilian Kurdish deaths.
Surely you remember the last time WE checked? July 1, 2010:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...urkeys-opposition-chief-4.html#post1058832422
Turkey's War on the Kurds. - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists | HighBeam Research - FREE trial
Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Article date: 1999
McKiernan, Kevin
[/QUOTE]
What war are you talking about, exactly?Yes, air strikes, caused a fire on the entire village. Yet the army takes all measures to avoid civilian deaths.
Israel on the other hand bombed hospitals, schools, used white phosphorus in populated areas and killed almost up to 2,000 civilians in a war that lasted around a week.
Nice try. Turkey attempted to give Iran cover for it's nuclear program but was not allowed to go forward.
NATO is a relic, not sure what use it is in today's world. Saying that, I read that your FM met with Hamas today and they seem to have an allegiance that does not seem to align itself with NATO or the EU which I am sure will never let a nation like Turkey enter their federation.
Turkey will be left to bottom feed with Hamas, Iran and Syria. Enjoy!
Surely you remember the last time WE checked? July 1, 2010:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...urkeys-opposition-chief-4.html#post1058832422
Turkey's War on the Kurds. - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists | HighBeam Research - FREE trial
Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Article date: 1999
McKiernan, Kevin
Update: Kurds in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was a ship that was armed to the ready, and whose operators are on record saying that it had absolutely nothing to do with humanitarian aid and that they wanted a confrontation with Israel, which is quite obvious given the fact that Israel offered the ships safe harbor in an Israeli port for inspection from where the goods would be then transferred to Gaza.
What's wrong with working with a neighbour to counter terrorism?
Turkey is, if there is any truth to it, looking East exactly because the EU rebuffed it. But what you rave on about has no truth in reality. Maybe in a worst case scenario but its no suprise the country has taken the direction it has. The islamist Erdogan has used EU's "door in the face" policy towards Turkey to move our view to the East. I only hope they loose the next elections to the Kemalists.
I do acknowledge and fear for the direction my country has taken but your hyperbole is doing naught to improve the situation. However, i have no doubt, with the continued escalation of violence with the PKK exactly BECAUSE of the AKP, that eventually there administration will be foiled.
TAF and the IDF have good ties. Our army is seperate from our government. Our army has always supported Israel, dealt with Israel through business ties, and has one of the strongest inner-army policies against anti-semetism. Its a secular establishment and as much as your propaganda fails, you need to remember its only the AKP here who are the root of the problem.
The military already had drafted plans to topple them (undemocratic, but its the AKP, so who cares)? Unfortunately, they foiled those.
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