Trump to Putin "If you don't make a deal we will give him (Zelensky) a lot......more than he ever got!" (1 Viewer)

[iguanaman]

Oh FFS, if he wanted genocide of Ukraine, he'd have done it by now. He wants to install a Russo-friendly government, which is what he had in 2013, and there was no talk of Ukrainian genocide then. You're just being ridiculous now. Put away your yellow and blue pom poms and start dealing with reality.

You do not know what genocide is do you? He wants to wipe Ukraine's borders off the map and destroy Ukraine's culture and language while using it's people to fight his next war. He wants Ukraine's resources and people to use for his own benefit. The Ukrainians would rather die fighting Russians than die fighting for Russia. You are the naive one here. Putin is putting up busts of Stalin in Mariupol and the occupied territories have adopted Stalin's Constitution as law there. Do you know how much Ukraine hates Stalin and why?

 

[multivita-man]

And we agree on that fully and I will just ignore the rest of your post since it is in direct contrast to that last statement.

Oh, but it is not. That's your blind spot, I'm afraid.

 

[multivita-man]

You do not know what genocide is do you?

I do, but you apparently do not.

He wants to destroy Ukraine's culture and language while using it's people to fight his next war. He wants Ukraine's resources and people to use for his own benefit. The Ukrainians would rather die fighting Russians than die fighting for Russia.

There's no genocide. You're just off the rails now.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Just the opposite. I think the US should be more mindful about the wars it starts, either directly or indirectly.

And there we are. Straight from RT.

 

[iguanaman]

Oh, but it is not. That's your blind spot, I'm afraid.

You are comfortable with the genocide of Ukraine because you find it inconvenient that Putin will not stop this war unless he can genocide all of Ukraine. That is a indefensible position and a sad commentary on your values. Denial is not a defense either. Putin has stated many times the Ukraine is not a country, it is part of Russia. The is one of the reasons that Putin has been indicted for Genocide by the world court.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Oh FFS, if he wanted genocide of Ukraine, he'd have done it by now. He wants to install a Russo-friendly government, which is what he had in 2013, and there was no talk of Ukrainian genocide then. You're just being ridiculous now. Put away your yellow and blue pom poms and start dealing with reality.

Mariople, Bucha, and other occupied areas have the mass graves fill up pretty fast. Doctors, teachers, cops, etc.

The reason he can't commit a proper genocide is that they're not advancing anymore.

 

[multivita-man]

And there we are. Straight from RT.

 

[Hamish Howl]

You think it's funny, the same way MAGAs find cruelty funny.

I find it revolting. I think less of you now.

 

[multivita-man]

Mariople, Bucha, and other occupied areas have the mass graves fill up pretty fast. Doctors, teachers, cops, etc.

The reason he can't commit a proper genocide is that they're not advancing anymore.

He's got weapons of mass destruction. Like...a lot.

He didn't even invade and occupy Ukraine until 2013 when his stooge got overthrown. Put a pro-Russian stooge back in and there's no genocide.

And this nonsense that Ukraine's going to be used to fight his next war -- against whom? I admit and concede now that in 2025 the picture is a bit different than it was 15, 10, or even 5 years ago, especially given who's running the DoD now. But maybe we're not in this position if we'd made different decisions. Or maybe we are in this position regardless -- entropy is a thing. We can't dictate global affairs forever.

 

[multivita-man]

You think it's funny, the same way MAGAs find cruelty funny.

I find it revolting. I think less of you now.

NOT.

 

[multivita-man]

You are comfortable with the genocide of Ukraine because you find it inconvenient that Putin will not stop this war unless he can genocide all of Ukraine. That is a indefensible position and a sad commentary on your values. Denial is not a defense either. Putin has stated many times the Ukraine is not a country, it is part of Russia. The is one of the reasons that Putin has been indicted for Genocide by the world court.

I think you're drinking Cold War-era Kool Aid.

 

[iguanaman]

He's got weapons of mass destruction. Like...a lot.

He didn't even invade and occupy Ukraine until 2013 when his stooge got overthrown. Put a pro-Russian stooge back in and there's no genocide.

And this nonsense that Ukraine's going to be used to fight his next war -- against whom? I admit and concede now that in 2025 the picture is a bit different than it was 15, 10, or even 5 years ago, especially given who's running the DoD now. But maybe we're not in this position if we'd made different decisions. Or maybe we are in this position regardless -- entropy is a thing. We can't dictate global affairs forever.

So your new excuse is that you are a coward? Putin does not have any more nukes than the USSR had and we didn't surrender to them either. We are still the strongest nation on earth and Putin knows it full well. He will not annihilate Russia forever to get his way in Ukraine. Even he is not that stupid. No one even knows how many nukes Russia has left that actually still work. We do know that if costs us billions a year to make sure that ours do.

 

[multivita-man]

So your new excuse is that you are a coward? Putin does not have any more nukes than the USSR had and we didn't surrender to them either. We are still the strongest nation on earth and Putin knows it full well.

Yeah, he's scared lol.

 

[iguanaman]

I think you're drinking Cold War-era Kool Aid.

That would be Putin that grew up in that era and stated that the biggest tragedy of the 20th century was the collapse of the USSR. He is determined to undo that "tragedy".

Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'​

In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057

 

[Tangmo]

I think the US should be more mindful about the wars it starts, either directly or indirectly.

Talk like that is why you can't cut your loses in all of this.

Your posts ignore that it's democracies in Europe and North America that are standing up against Putin's unprovoked barbarian invasion of Ukraine -- to include North Korea and now the CCP. Iran provides drones and India with China buys Russian excess gas and oil. These have become the usual suspects against Europe & the USA.

In March 2022 SWITZERLAND broke its hundreds of years of neutrality to send medical supplies, cash and personnel to Ukraine.

The years long campaign of your posts against the USA in Ukraine are, in a word, shameless. To which I would add unrelenting. Which is how I say you can't cut your loses that just keep getting piled on. You're in too deep for Russia I"m afraid.

 

[multivita-man]

Talk like that is why you can't cut your loses in all of this.

Your posts ignore that it's democracies in Europe and North America that are standing up against Putin's unprovoked barbarian invasion of Ukraine -- to include North Korea and now the CCP. Iran provides drones and India with China buys Russian excess gas and oil. These have become the usual suspects against Europe & the USA.

In March 2022 SWITZERLAND broke its hundreds of years of neutrality to send medical supplies, cash and personnel to Ukraine.

The years long campaign of your posts against the USA in Ukraine are, in a word, shameless. To which I would add unrelenting. Which is how I say you can't cut your loses that just keep getting piled on. You're in too deep for Russia I"m afraid.

Except for your ad hominem at the end, this is mostly a good post that I can respect even if we're not totally on the same page. I would concede that we're not alone in our repudiation of Russian aggression, and I support that repudiation. In case you missed it, I question our role leading up to the original flashpoint. I've already made that point multiple times here and on other Ukraine threads, so I'm kind of spent repeating myself.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Some Lord Halifax shit going on in here.

"We can come to a reasonable accommodation with Mr Hitler and Mr Mussolini."

 

[Tangmo]

Except for your ad hominem at the end, this is mostly a good post that I can respect even if we're not totally on the same page. I would concede that we're not alone in our repudiation of Russian aggression, and I support that repudiation. In case you missed it, I question our role leading up to the original flashpoint. I've already made that point multiple times here and on other Ukraine threads, so I'm kind of spent repeating myself.

No, you live by repeating yourself.

Which is why I say your posts about Putin are in too deep for you to cut your loses. And that your posts against the US and allies in Ukraine are in too deep to cut your loses there too. Indeed your own posts have over time trapped yourself.

What your posts need to concede is that you're in too deep to extract yourself from your apologias for Putin and condemnation of the US that works with its NATO and other allies in Ukraine to stymie Putin in Ukraine.

You also need to concede a vital policy of the USA and the West which is not to crush Putin in Ukraine which we over here could do, but which would leave Putin no off ramps. Putin would be compelled to do something nuclear if he were totally dissembled in Ukraine. So the irony of it is that the US, Europe and Ukraine allow Putin to muddle around inside Ukraine indefinitely while he takes losses that gain him nothing. I mean nothing.

You and Putin are spinning your wheels.

 

[multivita-man]

No, you live by repeating yourself.

Which is why I say your posts about Putin are in too deep for you to cut your loses. And that your posts against the US and allies in Ukraine are in too deep to cut your loses there too. Indeed your own posts have over time trapped yourself.

What your posts need to concede is that you're in too deep to extract yourself from your apologias for Putin and condemnation of the US that works with its NATO and other allies in Ukraine to stymie Putin in Ukraine.

You also need to concede a vital policy of the USA and the West which is not to crush Putin in Ukraine which we over here could do, but which would leave Putin no off ramps. Putin would be compelled to do something nuclear if he were totally dissembled in Ukraine. So the irony of it is that the US, Europe and Ukraine allow Putin to muddle around inside Ukraine indefinitely while he takes losses that gain him nothing. I mean nothing.

You and Putin are spinning your wheels.

 

[Tigerace117]

That would be Putin that grew up in that era and stated that the biggest tragedy of the 20th century was the collapse of the USSR. He is determined to undo that "tragedy".

Putin: Soviet collapse a 'genuine tragedy'​

In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057

Which it was. Without the Soviets America was able to sow chaos and destruction across the globe largely unhindered, leading to millions of innocent civilians being killed.

 

[Tigerace117]

You are comfortable with the genocide of Ukraine because you find it inconvenient that Putin will not stop this war unless he can genocide all of Ukraine. That is a indefensible position and a sad commentary on your values. Denial is not a defense either. Putin has stated many times the Ukraine is not a country, it is part of Russia. The is one of the reasons that Putin has been indicted for Genocide by the world court.

Guy who openly thinks it’s a “shame” the Nazis lost pretending to care about “genocide” is hilarious.

 

[iguanaman]

Guy who openly thinks it’s a “shame” the Nazis lost pretending to care about “genocide” is hilarious.

Precisely because I care about genocide is why I wish we went on to defeat Stalin's Russia after defeating the Nazi's. Hanging Germans for genocide while the Nazi's close ally was rampaging across eastern europe taking every nation it entered hostage without consequence was a huge and costly blunder. The lives that could have saved are in the millions.

 

[iguanaman]

Which it was. Without the Soviets America was able to sow chaos and destruction across the globe largely unhindered, leading to millions of innocent civilians being killed.

There were millions freed from bondage in eastern Europe and it figures you don't care. Russia is all that matters to you.

 

[Tigerace117]

There were millions freed from bondage in eastern Europe and it figures you don't care. Russia is all that matters to you.

The Soviets indeed freed millions from the literal slavery the Nazis had imposed on them.

But I get America doesn’t see slavery as a bad thing.

 

[Tigerace117]

Precisely because I care about genocide is why I wish we went on to defeat Stalin's Russia after defeating the Nazi's. Hanging Germans for genocide while the Nazi's close ally was rampaging across eastern europe taking every nation it entered hostage without consequence was a huge and costly blunder. The lives that could have saved are in the millions.

America lacked the ability to defeat the Soviets in 1945, and the military would have mutinied if FDR was dumb enough to try.

Your deep sympathy for the Third Reich and outrage that the Nazis were hung for their crimes speaks volumes.