Trump supporters: how bad does the economy have to get before you stop supporting Trump?

[Bucky]

Simple question.

Stock futures down again.

No big deals in site.

Trump does not seem to be backing down from tariffs.

Bond yields rising.

Dollar falling.

America wins in the long term.

Do entrepreneurs want to start businesses in China or India? Ya, good luck with that.

America - The best country in the world. The hottest ticket in town.

 

[Callen]

America wins in the long term.

Do entrepreneurs want to start businesses in China or India? Ya, good luck with that.

America - The best country in the world. The hottest ticket in town.

Lots of those entrepreneurs source their materials from China and other countries. The US simply can not provide all the materials that are required at a price that consumers will pay.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

If you live in Bangkok, then you have your own protective bubble. SO you can be comfortable in that monarchy as long as you can pronounce the king's name without stumbling.
Thailand is a special state of mind as I recall it. Both in Bangkok and up north where I was stationed for a while.
You should stay there instead of being here where, under Trump, you would probably being thinking of leaving.

Hi Jay,

Why would I want to stay in America? I am not even allowed to stay there. Don't I need to be a US citizen for that or have a green card? And of course I do not stay in Bangkok. Big city. Many people. Bad smell. I think the 'special state of mind' you are referring to is the Buddhist mentality you see all around you in Thailand. But there is an other aspect to it. Thailand is the only country in South-East Asia that was never colonized. This means that many things that are normal for most people, are not so normal in Thailand. Of course that is changing today, but when you were stationed here, it was much more like that.

Some of you have decided to stay behind. Met a few of them. Great people, but all crazy m f ers. At least the ones that decided to stay. lol. One of them I remember he had his own company and ran a military training centre. An other one stayed behind doing some 'logistics' work for the MD. Others started flying off-shore for the oil industry, though I think most of those who decided that they wanted to keep flying after the war actually went to the middle east, but I may be wrong there. Not many left anymore though... An era gone.

An other thing. I strongly disagree with the war in Vietnam, but obviously that was not a conflict of your making. I have a lot of respect for the people who went there and did what they had to do. I may be a pacifist, but I do understand that we need armies and I also understand that the only way to run an army is by following orders. So; Hats Off to you for doing your part. And the way you got treated upon your return, quite frankly I think that was a disgrace.

If you are interested, there is a book called 'Air America' which is as the title suggests about Air America. This book also notes down a lot of local tales from both the North and the Bangkok area during the war. You may find it really interesting. I thought it was a good book. A little surreal at times though.

Oh, by the way. I used to live right next to the U-Ta Pau runway for many years. Would walk my dog on the beach at the end of the runway.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Lots of those entrepreneurs source their materials from China and other countries. The US simply can not provide all the materials that are required at a price that consumers will pay.

Hi Callen,

You are right that there is an economic aspect to it when you say; 'The US simply can not provide all the materials that are required at a price that consumers will pay.'.

However, to highlight the logistical issues surrounding this, you could simply say; 'The US simply can not provide all the materials that are required.'.

And that is your bottom line. You will not be able to keep up with demand.


Joey

 

[Ethel2]

Trump supporters: how bad does the economy have to get before you stop supporting Trump?

How do you stay quiet on a social media site? Hi Jay, If you look at the 'Joined Date' and the number of messages sent and compare these 2 from you and me than you can see that I stay much more quiet than you. :-) You see? Life is so simple. No need to make it more complicated. Joey

debatepolitics.com

That’s nice

 

[Ethel2]

America wins in the long term.

Do entrepreneurs want to start businesses in China or India? Ya, good luck with that.

America - The best country in the world. The hottest ticket in town.

Lol
I doubt there’s a single significant businessman who is insane enough to want to start a business here without knowing what the ground rules are. And with the schizophrenic felon in charge the ground rules change daily.

 

[jaypatriot]

Hi Jay,

Why would I want to stay in America? I am not even allowed to stay there. Don't I need to be a US citizen for that or have a green card? And of course I do not stay in Bangkok. Big city. Many people. Bad smell. I think the 'special state of mind' you are referring to is the Buddhist mentality you see all around you in Thailand. But there is an other aspect to it. Thailand is the only country in South-East Asia that was never colonized. This means that many things that are normal for most people, are not so normal in Thailand. Of course that is changing today, but when you were stationed here, it was much more like that.

Some of you have decided to stay behind. Met a few of them. Great people, but all crazy m f ers. At least the ones that decided to stay. lol. One of them I remember he had his own company and ran a military training centre. An other one stayed behind doing some 'logistics' work for the MD. Others started flying off-shore for the oil industry, though I think most of those who decided that they wanted to keep flying after the war actually went to the middle east, but I may be wrong there. Not many left anymore though... An era gone.

An other thing. I strongly disagree with the war in Vietnam, but obviously that was not a conflict of your making. I have a lot of respect for the people who went there and did what they had to do. I may be a pacifist, but I do understand that we need armies and I also understand that the only way to run an army is by following orders. So; Hats Off to you for doing your part. And the way you got treated upon your return, quite frankly I think that was a disgrace.

If you are interested, there is a book called 'Air America' which is as the title suggests about Air America. This book also notes down a lot of local tales from both the North and the Bangkok area during the war. You may find it really interesting. I thought it was a good book. A little surreal at times though.

Oh, by the way. I used to live right next to the U-Ta Pau runway for many years. Would walk my dog on the beach at the end of the runway.

Joey

I'll say one thing about you, Joey, you have an interesting, exotic background, and probably a good story to tell.
My knowledge of Thailand is limited to nine fun days in Bangkok waiting for my security clearance before I was sent up north to Udorn for some intelligence work.

BTW, millions of U.S. military who spent time in Vietnam and Thailand look back on that Vietnam conflict as a big mistake that accomplished nothing. But while you're there, you only know you are doing your duty and too young to know about an eventual outcome. Then, years later, you begin to see the fallacy of all that national treasure waste on such a miserable country.

And in the spirit of this thread, I will say Trump and the American people are acutely aware of the dangers of being caught up in another foreign conflict which would spell the end of any president who cares about public opinion.

 

[jaypatriot]

Hi Jay,

No. This is not about republicans and democrats anymore. It is about your country.


Joey

Given this is a web site devoted to political debate, I would rather think of my posts as a contest between two major political parties that affect the entire country.
And, by extension, the entire world.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

We still live in the Biden / Harris economy.
It isn't the Trump economy until 1/1/26

The Ship of State is slow to turn,
like the Titanic

That old rule of thumb has been broken. It used to be true in most cases that the previous fiscal year budget would still have a significant affect upon the US economy, and an incoming admin's new budget and trade deals would take a while to not only be developed in Congress and within the WH, but their implementation would take time to work through the US economy and the world's. But this is not like that. This is much more like the 08 or covid crash. Don has radically changed through exec action not only the US budget but a trading regime that had been built up since the 1970's....in the first 100 days of this 2nd term. The absolute size of the shock is just barely being felt, it is going to take a few years for the realignments to stabilize and the budget shocks to filter through.

This is our Brexit, it is going to be a bigger hit than what Farage caused. ALL of Britain have seen around a 10% loss in their wealth as a result of their pullout from the EU.

 

[LoreD]

It will take their kids going hungry and having severely limited access to health care. That's what usually does it for undereducated people.

Nope. You can look at the poorest counties in WV, Louisiana, and Mississippi. Their kids have been starving for generations, and they still keep voting Red.

About 15 years ago, a group of Democratic activists went down to the poorest counties in WV to talk about all the Democratic programs that would benefit their children. Devastating poverty. A life expectancy lower than Bangldesh. Collapsing mobile homes, rotten teeth, severe malnutrition, and no healthcare. The activists tried to talk about Medicad, SNAP, job training, housing subsidies, addiction programs, daycare, pre-school, etc. They gave up because the people just responded with long rants about gay marriage.

Mike Johnson's district has 41% of the population on Medicaid. And they still would vote for him.

 

[Moi621]

That old rule of thumb has been broken. It used to be true in most cases that the previous fiscal year budget would still have a significant affect upon the US economy, and an incoming admin's new budget and trade deals would take a while to not only be developed in Congress and within the WH, but their implementation would take time to work through the US economy and the world's. But this is not like that. This is much more like the 08 or covid crash. Don has radically changed through exec action not only the US budget but a trading regime that had been built up since the 1970's....in the first 100 days of this 2nd term. The absolute size of the shock is just barely being felt, it is going to take a few years for the realignments to stabilize and the budget shocks to filter through.

This is our Brexit, it is going to be a bigger hit than what Farage caused. ALL of Britain have seen around a 10% loss in their wealth as a result of their pullout from the EU.

"Not Hardly", John Wayne

Just venomous Trump hate.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Not Hardly

"Not hardly"? Thats it? Thats the extent of your ability to put your thoughts on the page?

 

[Helix]

Nope. You can look at the poorest counties in WV, Louisiana, and Mississippi. Their kids have been starving for generations, and they still keep voting Red.

About 15 years ago, a group of Democratic activists went down to the poorest counties in WV to talk about all the Democratic programs that would benefit their children. Devastating poverty. A life expectancy lower than Bangldesh. Collapsing mobile homes, rotten teeth, severe malnutrition, and no healthcare. The activists tried to talk about Medicad, SNAP, job training, housing subsidies, addiction programs, daycare, pre-school, etc. They gave up because the people just responded with long rants about gay marriage.

Mike Johnson's district has 41% of the population on Medicaid. And they still would vote for him.

I grew up around them. Their kids still got Medicaid and free lunches, as it should be. The current Republican party is ****ing with that, too. Bad move.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Given this is a web site devoted to political debate, I would rather think of my posts as a contest between two major political parties that affect the entire country.
And, by extension, the entire world.

Hi Jay,

The discussion definitely is between party lines most of the time. The issue is not.

Joey

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Other countries have had tariffs on US products for ever...Do you know you will only find few, if any, American cars in Japan, China, India, UK or the EU. Try to find an American car in Australia or New Zealand. Tariffs and regulations that's why.
Even Canada imposes a high tariff on American dairy and lumber products.

Japan doesn't impose any tarrifs on American vehicles. https://www.wcshipping.com/blog/jap...icy,driving conditions and urban environments

Austrailia has a 5% tarrif on imported cars or 4wd vehicles, which is much lower than US tarrifs on imported vehicles has been. https://www.wwcf.com.au/importing-m... payable,and insurance + customs duty amounts.

As to why you don't see many American cars in much of the EU, we don't build small enough vehicles for them. Try to drive a full size truck around Paris. We do build some vehicles for European markets and you do see them on the roads there. For most of this century, GM has sold more Buicks in China than in the United States (5 times as much). It is as though you have an opinion on US trade poilicy, yet you are ignorant of global trade.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

America wins in the long term.

Do entrepreneurs want to start businesses in China or India? Ya, good luck with that.

America - The best country in the world. The hottest ticket in town.

Over 32 million new businesses were started in China in 2023 alone. https://www.china-briefing.com/news...industries-investment-and-incentive-policies/

That same year, 2023, America had a record number of new busineses, 5.5 million. https://www.sba.gov/article/2024/01...-16-million-under-biden-harris-administration

Thus China in a given year has 6 times as many entrepreneurs. I have noticed that the people with the strongest opinions on trade and trade wars with China have typically never spent any time there. China is ahead of America in integrated circuits, chipmaking, high-performance computing, electric vehicles, 5G, advanced robotics - in most areas of technology, they aren't just ahead, they are way ahead. China leads high tech research and in most areas of innovation. https://www.prescouter.com/2023/04/the-global-technology-race-is-china-truly-ahead-of-the-west/

Spend some time in China and you realize that it is not a country that we want to get into a unilateral trade war with, because we will likely lose. The way to change China on trade was with the Trans Pacific Partnership - which Trump pulled us out of in his first term. Since then, China has only pulled further ahead.

The last time I was in China was just before Covid. In fact, I few out of China a day before the first recognized Covid case. When you fly into China, you will likely fly into Pudong International Airport in Shanghai. The first thing you will notice is how much nicer and more efficient Pudong International is than any Airport in the United States. From it, you will board the Maglev that takes you into Shanghai proper. You will change trains at the Maglev station to a subway line, which hits 90 mph between stations (3 times the speed of the average American mass transit). Roughly 40 minutes after you get through Chinese immigration, you can be in the center of Shanghai, a city of 25 million people. You will pay with your phone (wechat pay or alipay) everywhere you go because it is now a cashless society. Even if you give money to someone homeless there, you will do it via a QR code. If you want to go anywhere in the country, you can do so via there extensive network of high speed trains that travel just under 300 mph. For example, you can cover a distance of 500 miles on a high speed train there in under 2 hours, very comfortably, and inexpensively. If you get into a ride share, you will have high speed wifi everywhere you go. In fact, you will have very high speed 5G mobile service no matter where you are in China, even in train tunnels through mountain ranges. If you get into a car, it will likely be an EV. Virtually every building will have solar on it's roof and solar hot water. If you tour a factory, they may have to turn the lights on for you because they are often fully automated and robots don't need lights. You will find the country to be very safe, the people to be very friendly and welcoming, and you will see some of the hardest working, most driven people you have ever seen in your life.

The point is, in many ways, China is a better place to start a business than America. Spend some time in China and when you come back to America we will seem technologically backwards.

 

[Bucky]

Lol
I doubt there’s a single significant businessman who is insane enough to want to start a business here without knowing what the ground rules are. And with the schizophrenic felon in charge the ground rules change daily.

What are the ground rules in China?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

America wins in the long term.

Maybe, if there is something left after Donny, but....in the long term, we are all dead.

"The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again."

 

[Ethel2]

What are the ground rules in China?

We aren’t discussing China.
Try to pay attention

 

[cpwill]

Simple question.

Stock futures down again.

No big deals in site.

Trump does not seem to be backing down from tariffs.

Bond yields rising.

Dollar falling.

Because they identify with him, there is no point at which they can do this, I think.

 

[Josie]

Die-hard Trumpers will go along with anything.

 

[Moi621]

"Not hardly"? Thats it? Thats the extent of your ability to put your thoughts on the page?

No!

YOU edited my quote.

Shame! Shame!
​

 

[BrotherFease]

I did vote for Trump in 2016, but not in 2020 and 2024. My vote in 2016 was based on "lesser of the evils". I disliked both Clinton and Trump.

I do credit Trump for turning me into an Independent. For me, I do not support the Democrat or Republican MAGA Party.

I will for arguments sake, play Devil's Advocate. I will put on my imaginary MAGA hat made in China.

Trump has only been President for three months. His tariff and government cut backs are meant to produce short term loss, but big time success down the road. The debt is getting out of hand. Countries are scamming us, and taking advantage of our culture and wealth.

 

[Yes_Minister]

I did vote for Trump in 2016, but not in 2020 and 2024. My vote in 2016 was based on "lesser of the evils". I disliked both Clinton and Trump.

I do credit Trump for turning me into an Independent. For me, I do not support the Democrat or Republican MAGA Party.

I will for arguments sake, play Devil's Advocate. I will put on my imaginary MAGA hat made in China.

Trump has only been President for three months. His tariff and government cut backs are meant to produce short term loss, but big time success down the road. The debt is getting out of hand. Countries are scamming us, and taking advantage of our culture and wealth.

How is the US the richest and most powerful country in the world and got scammed by every other country at the same time? How does that work?

 

[Bucky]

We aren’t discussing China.
Try to pay attention

My question is, are businesses going to start lining up to start businesses in China and want to deal with their government?

Is China a friendly country to do business in?