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Trump Jr. Hinted at Review of Anti-Russia Law, Moscow Lawyer Says

donsutherland1

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Bloomberg.com reported today:

“Looking ahead, if we come to power, we can return to this issue and think what to do about it,’’ Trump Jr. said of the 2012 law, she recalled. “I understand our side may have messed up, but it’ll take a long time to get to the bottom of it,” he added, according to her.

Veselnitskaya also said Trump Jr. requested financial documents showing that money that allegedly evaded U.S. taxes had gone to Clinton’s campaign. She didn’t have any and described the 20-minute meeting as a failure.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...russia-law-may-be-reviewed-moscow-lawyer-says

As it appears that Ms. Veselnitskaya may be willing to cooperate in the ongoing investigations, it will be interesting to see if she will be interviewed by Special Counsel Mueller.
 

danarhea

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Oops, you beat me by a few minutes on this one, so I will put my thoughts here:

This does seem to be the smoking gun that will bring down members of the Trump administration. But let's put things in perspective. Russia wanted to get Hillary because of her support for the Magnitsky Act, which weakened Putin and his associates financially, but that was just a small part of the game they have been playing, which is to weaken America itself on the world stage, and to set themselves up to replace America in foreign affairs. This meant hurting both Hillary and Trump, and they did this by compromising members of Trump's campaign team. In addition, their bot farms dominated social networking by targeting political ads at both Hillary and Trump. To Russia's delight, Trump won the election, and now they are going after him. Should Trump not finish out his term, Russia will have executed a coup on American soil. Trump is just as much a target of Russian meddling as Hillary is, and America has become the victim.

No matter how this plays out, one thing is for certain. We need to start the Cold War again. Russia is playing for keeps, and it is time we began doing the same.
 

Fletch

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Bloomberg.com reported today:

“Looking ahead, if we come to power, we can return to this issue and think what to do about it,’’ Trump Jr. said of the 2012 law, she recalled. “I understand our side may have messed up, but it’ll take a long time to get to the bottom of it,” he added, according to her.

Veselnitskaya also said Trump Jr. requested financial documents showing that money that allegedly evaded U.S. taxes had gone to Clinton’s campaign. She didn’t have any and described the 20-minute meeting as a failure.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...russia-law-may-be-reviewed-moscow-lawyer-says

As it appears that Ms. Veselnitskaya may be willing to cooperate in the ongoing investigations, it will be interesting to see if she will be interviewed by Special Counsel Mueller.
So, whats the big deal here?
 

humbolt

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So we're going to place credibility in the testimony of a Russian lawyer that represented FSB interests from 2005 to 2013? Doesn't seem like a great idea to me.
 

chuckiechan

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Bloomberg.com reported today:

“Looking ahead, if we come to power, we can return to this issue and think what to do about it,’’ Trump Jr. said of the 2012 law, she recalled. “I understand our side may have messed up, but it’ll take a long time to get to the bottom of it,” he added, according to her.

Veselnitskaya also said Trump Jr. requested financial documents showing that money that allegedly evaded U.S. taxes had gone to Clinton’s campaign. She didn’t have any and described the 20-minute meeting as a failure.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...russia-law-may-be-reviewed-moscow-lawyer-says

As it appears that Ms. Veselnitskaya may be willing to cooperate in the ongoing investigations, it will be interesting to see if she will be interviewed by Special Counsel Mueller.
How can any Russian be believed, other than when you want to believe them?
 

Cardinal

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So, whats the big deal here?
It contradicts Jr.'s claims that he walked out of the meeting in disgust when he expected dirt on Clinton and it turned out to be about the Magnitsky Act instead.

I would brag about having predicted back in the summer that more would come out about that meeting, but saying that about a serial liar hardly makes me a genius. I guess I shouldn't expect too much credit for predicting violence in the Middle East in 2018 either.
 

danarhea

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It contradicts Jr.'s claims that he walked out of the meeting in disgust when he expected dirt on Clinton and it turned out to be about the Magnitsky Act instead.

I would brag about having predicted back in the summer that more would come out about that meeting, but saying that about a serial liar hardly makes me a genius. I guess I shouldn't expect too much credit for predicting violence in the Middle East in 2018 either.
Actually, in regard to violence in the Middle East, it's doesn't take a seer to predict that. That war is already 1,400 years old.
 

Cardinal

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So we're going to place credibility in the testimony of a Russian lawyer that represented FSB interests from 2005 to 2013? Doesn't seem like a great idea to me.
Fair point. Right now the score board is:

Donald Trump Jr.: lied about everything.
Natalia Veselnitskaya: Russian agent.

I'm putting my trust in the theory that Jr. was open to discussing the lifting of the Magnitsky Act for the simple reasons that he was eager to meet with a Russian agent for dirt on Clinton and that he has no ethics. But in terms of convincing a jury of the veracity of a Russian agent's testimony, that will indeed be a complication moving forward.
 

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Actually, in regard to violence in the Middle East, it's doesn't take a seer to predict that. That war is already 1,400 years old.
That was my point. Such a prediction would earn the response, "Way to go, Nostradumbass."
 

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So, whats the big deal here?
The news is that we're hearing directly from her about the content of the meeting, and that she's willing to testify/etc.

Lawyer types will have to weigh in (not liberals, people with law experience). But the general idea is that Trump Jr. met with an extension of the Russian Government saying:

These things you want (some anti-Russia law), we can help you "If we come to power".
He also asked for written evidence that illegal proceeds when to Hillary's campaign.

Looks like it may contradict Jr's earlier claims (lying under oath? obstruction?), and it could be a direct attempt at quid pro quo with Russia.
 
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bearpoker

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Oops, you beat me by a few minutes on this one, so I will put my thoughts here:

This does seem to be the smoking gun that will bring down members of the Trump administration. But let's put things in perspective. Russia wanted to get Hillary because of her support for the Magnitsky Act, which weakened Putin and his associates financially, but that was just a small part of the game they have been playing, which is to weaken America itself on the world stage, and to set themselves up to replace America in foreign affairs. This meant hurting both Hillary and Trump, and they did this by compromising members of Trump's campaign team. In addition, their bot farms dominated social networking by targeting political ads at both Hillary and Trump. To Russia's delight, Trump won the election, and now they are going after him. Should Trump not finish out his term, Russia will have executed a coup on American soil. Trump is just as much a target of Russian meddling as Hillary is, and America has become the victim.

No matter how this plays out, one thing is for certain. We need to start the Cold War again. Russia is playing for keeps, and it is time we began doing the same.
I've always felt that Putin favored Trump for president because he knows a patsy when he sees one. Trump is motivated by self intrest and his financial ties with Russia mean that he'll give Putin free reign.
 

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So, whats the big deal here?
Exchanging favorable policy decisions for favors with a foreign nation? What's the big deal?
 

chuckiechan

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How can either side be believed, other than when you want to believe them? Wasn't this originally about "Russian adoptions?"
We do have a crisis of getting accurate information. Unless we are wired in somehow, we only get what the media wants us to get. Good luck ferreting through that haystack.
 

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He didn't do that though
But...and this is important...the claim that he even considered it contradicts his earlier claim that he ran out in disgust. You can't keep claiming this is nothing after a nearly endless parade of lies.

More will come out.
 
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Fletch

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But...and this is important...the claim that he even considered it contradicts his earlier claim that he ran out in disgust. You can't keep claim this is nothing after a nearly endless parade of lies.

More will come out.
Perhaps, but this is nothing.
 

Cardinal

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Perhaps, but this is nothing.
Only if you consider a Federal crime "nothing." But seeing as you think Trump is smart for granting effective immunity for Federal crimes, I guess I can see why you would say that.
 

Fletch

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Only if you consider a Federal crime "nothing." But seeing as you think Trump is smart for granting effective immunity for Federal crimes, I guess I can see why you would say that.
Whats the crime?
 

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Whats the crime?
From Renato Mariotti, a former Federal prosecutor:

"It is a federal crime to exchange an “official act” for something of value. It’s called “theft of honest services.” To put it more simply, offering to exchange an official act for something of value is like soliciting a bribe. There can be no serious question that supporting repeal of the Magnitsky Act would be an official act for purposes of this statute."

https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/927551169932791808
 

Mach

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Whats the crime?
Are you as full of questions in pursuit of these crimes, or just in attempting to dismiss them?

Could also be:
"It is important to remember that anyone who testifies in front of a Senate committee is under the restrictions of the False Statements statute that says material false statements to Congress are criminal and punishable with fines or imprisonment or both," Coons said in a statement attached to the forwarded memo [regarding Trump Jr's testimony before the senate judiciary]

Possibly more. That's what investigators do, they find evidence.
Then they look into what crimes may he been committed.
They then see if they have enough evidence to actually bring the charges.
If so, they charge them.

That you are asking about step #4, when it's on step #1 for the public, is telling. Unless you think we have the skill to do this without all the investigation, or seeing all the evidence, or having any training in any of these areas?

We can spot B.S. pretty well, contradictions, we can see patterns of behavior (no one has anything to do with Russia, but turns out they all had plenty to do with Russia), etc. But beyond that, the "crimes" will ultimately come from the experts.
 

Fletch

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From Renato Mariotti, a former Federal prosecutor:

"It is a federal crime to exchange an “official act” for something of value. It’s called “theft of honest services.” To put it more simply, offering to exchange an official act for something of value is like soliciting a bribe. There can be no serious question that supporting repeal of the Magnitsky Act would be an official act for purposes of this statute."

https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/927551169932791808
But he didn't do that. Reread the womans statement.
 

Fletch

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Are you as full of questions in pursuit of these crimes, or just in attempting to dismiss them?
How about you demonstrate a crime first. Until you do there is nothing for me to defend or dismiss.
 

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But he didn't do that. Reread the womans statement.
If his comment could be confirmed then it would be conspiracy to commit that crime.
 
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