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Trump isn’t the real problem

JMR said:
I have posted here numerous times....I think Trump supporters are many types....Hillary haters, Republicans who want to give him a chance, angry people, and racists. Mixed bag. I have no idea which category you fit in, haven't really seen a lot of your posts.

Since his nomination I believe Trump has given the population many good reasons to question why his supporters continue to support him... Some just stubborn, others happy with what they are seeing. That leads me to further questions....
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I will call Trump out on things. But I like what his ideas are. If that makes sense.
 
jghiretire said:
I call BS. You really mean liberal and black.
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You need to quit putting "race" into everything I say. I don't give a **** that he's black, he had a terrible leadership and policies.
 
enderpotato00 said:
How is it self-destructive? What if they do it on their self as a joke?
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The concept of humanity being divided into racial hierarchy is self destructive because human progress as as a species is hindered by useless squabbling over differences of skin color or ethnicity.
 
justabubba said:
isn't there a US facility in cuba that he just proposed "hardening"
a place where our Constitutional rights are not recognized
Trump signs order to keep Guantanamo Bay prison open | Fox News
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The same Guantanamo Bay prison that has been in use for years!

The camp was established by President George W. Bush's administration in 2002 during the War on Terror. His successor, President Barack Obama, promised that he would close it, but met strong bipartisan opposition, with Congress passing laws to prohibit detainees from Guantanamo being imprisoned in the U.S.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
The concept of humanity being divided into racial hierarchy is self destructive because human progress as as a species is hindered by useless squabbling over differences of skin color or ethnicity.
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That ain't gonna go away dude. Sucks but thats life. Thats humanity. There will always be prejudice.
 
Lutherf said:
If you're one of the people, like the knucklehead that wrote the article or the candidate for president that wasn't Trump, who figures anyone east of LA and west of DC is a nazi then you're an elitist asshole. That article in the OP is the EPITOME of elitist assholery.
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I'm sorry to say that I think your evaluation of what urban people think has been doctored a bit by the victim culture of right wing media.

I say that I'm sorry to say that because generally I enjoy your posts.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
But isn’t it ideal to aspire for a time and place when racism no longer matters?
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Yes it would be nice, but again its an IDEAL, it really cannot ever be met. There will always be racist people.
 
JMR said:
I'm sorry to say that I think your evaluation of what urban people think has been doctored a bit by the victim culture of right wing media.

I say that I'm sorry to say that because generally I enjoy your posts.
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I think some Left-Wing media has brainwashed you too.
 
JMR said:
Which ideas do you like?
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Building a wall to keep ILLEGAL immigrants from getting in too easily, tax cuts, better healthcare for everyone, and banning muslims for a WHILE until the vetting system is improved. And maybe people actually assimilating into American culture.
 
eohrnberger said:
The other part that seems to be missing rampant rabid nationalism, as was the case in Nazi Germany.

Do please note that there's are very distinct and important differences between patriotism, and nationalism.

And, no, Trump isn't the problem, but the problem probably beget the Trump presidency.

The problem (the division), as many previous posts have correctly observed, has been with the US for quite some time now.

Looking forward, it is unlikely that this is going to get any better, when you consider that the Democrat party and the left have gone to the extremest hard left, with the mentality of 'by any means necessary'.

The practice of identity politics, victim hood, forced redistribution and excessive political correctness (given that being polite is probably sufficient) aren't really going to help solve anything, much less this problem of a divided and tribal electorate.

Trumped Up: How Criminalization of Political Differences Endangers Democracy. It does, and it isn't going to help either.
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........there's where you lose me - it's not just the left - the right has gone way too far the other way with their evangelical christianity. They want women to sit down and shut up - the gays back in the closet. That about right?
That's what you all seem to mean about political correctness and MAGA.
 
justabubba said:
this was a surprising start of a story for me
i was stunned by the comparisons made
here is the rest of the story

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/trump-isnt-real-problem/
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Really a disservice to try and say the Trump administration is like the Nazi's. There is no comparison. It's a stupid and dangerous thing to do. Seems to be another Godwin story.
Everyone gets it, you are extremely unhappy that Trump won.........
 
enderpotato00 said:
Building a wall to keep ILLEGAL immigrants from getting in too easily, tax cuts, better healthcare for everyone, and banning muslims for a WHILE until the vetting system is improved. And maybe people actually assimilating into American culture.
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So you are for bankrupting the economy to build a wall...tax cuts for corporations, banning certain religions... What is the better healthcare? Who is working on that?

And which culture should they assimilate into? Urban or Rural?
 
JMR said:
So you are for bankrupting the economy to build a wall...tax cuts for corporations, banning certain religions... What is the better healthcare? Who is working on that?
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No. The economy is doing fine for right now. Tax cuts for everyone. He didn't say to "ban certain religions" but to ban them TEMPORARILY until the vetting process is IMPROVED. The entire culture. Not just run around and do whatever the hell they want and disregard laws.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
In other words, you're saying that we should refrain from violating Godwin's law, right? Godwin himself said that the right-wing protesters at Charlottesville should be called Nazis, especially since some of them were flying Nazi (or neo-Nazi) flags.
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Ummm....okay? I'm not disputing that, nor have I ever disputed that. Neo-Nazis certainly played a role in that incident. Thought that as nothing to do with what I said.

But when it comes to Trump, there's a good article about a discussion between history professors at Cornell. To make a long discussion much shorter, the conditions that enabled the rise of Trump do mirror at least to some extent those that enabled the rise of Hitler, and that Trump's tendencies do somewhat resemble Hitler's:

Hull pointed out that some of the things that paved the way for fascism in Germany are repeated now, such as a weak government that was intentionally undermined by its elites, and “a highly stove-piped national press, such that people only heard and saw what they already thought, and that should sound familiar though it now comes in a different mode,” said Hull, the John Stambaugh Professor of History.

Another similarity Hull pointed to was that Hitler, like Trump, “had no regard for bureaucracy or law or regularity or policies. Under National Socialism, that system of government made it flexible, adaptable, but also self-radicalizing and ultimately completely self-destructive.”

But the other side of the argument was admittedly more effective:

In explaining Trump’s ascendance there’s been far too much emphasis placed on socio-economic problems and far too little on cultural and status problems, said Hull: Populism, not fascism, better explains Trump’s support. U.S. populism, she said, began as a revolt by farmers against the industrial and financial movements of the 1880-90s. It was a status revolt “by a group of people who felt sold out because they received lip service as being great yeoman farmers … but who believed that they were being disadvantaged and sold out by the rest of America.” It was, said Hull, a liberation movement to “free them from their perceived victimized status and return to values they felt that they epitomized.” And while this populist movement was xenophobic and racist, it lacked effective leadership, strong organization or the transcendent ideology that defines fascism and National Socialism.

Trump won, said Traverso, because of “the rejection of the political establishment through both mass abstention and a protest vote captured by a populist demagogue” – not because of a fascist revolution.

To summarize, comparing Trump and the GOP to Hitler and the Nazis is not without reason or merit...BUT it is still in accurate in that they don't have the effective leadership, strong organization, and transcendent ideology that defined Nazism.
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No, I'm sorry, but comparing Trump and the GOP to the Nazi's and Hitler is ridiculous hyperbole, considering the vastly different situations that Germany was in during the 1930's, and present-day America. Not about to entertain it.
 
enderpotato00 said:
No. The economy is doing fine for right now. Tax cuts for everyone. He didn't say to "ban certain religions" but to ban them TEMPORARILY until the vetting process is IMPROVED.
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IF the economy is doing fine, how will spending billions on a useless wall help? I'm not getting a tax cut...so not everyone. (Been discussed ad nauseum, no need to comment further) And I missed your response to my question....Who exactly is working on providing better healthcare to us all?

Also...which culture should they assimilate into....Urban or Rural?
 
JMR said:
IF the economy is doing fine, how will spending billions on a useless wall help? I'm not getting a tax cut...so not everyone. (Been discussed ad nauseum, no need to comment further) And I missed your response to my question....Who exactly is working on providing better healthcare to us all?
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Republicans did but of course they don't want to follow Trump, so it never passed yet. I got a tax cut so.
 
JMR said:
IF the economy is doing fine, how will spending billions on a useless wall help? I'm not getting a tax cut...so not everyone. (Been discussed ad nauseum, no need to comment further) And I missed your response to my question....Who exactly is working on providing better healthcare to us all?

Also...which culture should they assimilate into....Urban or Rural?
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The wall will help to make it harded for illegals to get in.
 
JMR said:
I'm sorry to say that I think your evaluation of what urban people think has been doctored a bit by the victim culture of right wing media.

I say that I'm sorry to say that because generally I enjoy your posts.
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Did you read the freaking article in the OP? I'm not pulling this out of thin air. Hillary campaigned on the concept of urban elitism. The guy that wrote the article in the OP put it out in black and white. The jackass that wrote the Chick-Fil-a article in the New Yorker said it. Every time CNN sends a reporter out into the wilderness to see what "rural Americans" are thinking they perpetuate the idea. There are LOTS of people inside the blue bubble that sincerely believe everyone not inside the bubble is a menace to society.
 
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