Trump inclined to declare national emergency if talks continue to stall

[washunut]

All Presidents have EO authority. Trump has used his authority for the last 2 years. Obama used his. No different. Republicans screamed when Obama used his, and Democrats scream when Trump uses his.

Partisan politics at its best.

We agree!

 

[j-mac]

No, you changed the discussion. I laid out a scenario where Democrats controlled everything for 2 years and shutdown the government during a lame duck session. I then asked you if you would blame Republicans equally for the shutdown in such a scenario. You didn't answer the question. I suspect the reason you did not is because you of course would not blame the Republicans in such a scenario, yet you still want to blame the Democrats equally for a shutdown entirely created by Trump and the Republicans.

As a side note, do you know the last time the Democrats shutdown the government? That would be 1986.

Since when do I have to follow YOUR rules for the discussion? Look, You probably have a point in that in your scenerio I would probably argue that Democrats owned the shutdown, just as in that same hypothetical you would argue the opposing side....Are we clear now that each of us has our own partisan leanings?

Now, we are talking about what is going on today, not any other time including what you want to make up...Now, can we at least agree that the statement that Trump made during the campaign was rhetoric to fire up his campaign event attendees? It had NO basis in actual implementation, and even if it did, any money received from Mexico in that vein, would go through the Treasury, and have to be appropriated by Congress...

Now, let's hopefully move on from the pitifully dumb talking point of Mexico paying for the wall, and go to where we are today....

Trump has moved from funding the entire $25 billion, to asking for $5 billion, and not all of that that is going into an actual concrete wall across the entire border....In fact, here is what they are putting out right now...

I saw this morning in the News that there is more detailed look at how they want to spend the money, including Tech, increased BP agents, increased Judges, and more detention beds, to name a few...Are you seeing that side being reported widely? No...Why do you think that is?

 

[bluesmoke]

Source: (CNN) Trump inclined to declare national emergency if talks continue to stall

My hope is that this is posturing, because otherwise I think we're heading into dangerous territory and possibly a Constitutional crisis.

Essentially, we have a President stymied in his attempts to get his pet project off the ground, who shuts-down the government when Congress refuses to fund said project. When that doesn't work for him, he decides to declare a national emergency and circumvent the Constitutional separation of military and civilian forces.

I submit Trump is treading on very dangerous ground here. Very dangerous.

It's only dangerous to the extent of Trump's ability to whip his minions and others into a frothing frenzy of Chicken Little "The nation is falling". He can't fund "the wall" without Congress' approval. It's that simple, however complicated it may be made. Trump can't get the money from the military or Homeland Security or the Executive Office piggy bank because he can’t take money away from what has already been budgeted by Congress. Trump can’t steal from his own piggy bank.

We should all take a few deep yoga breaths. People are falling into another arms-crossed, Trump adolescent, holding-my-breath-until-the country-turns-blue, I do this every day tactic. Bombastic bluster and bluff at everybody else’s expense and suffering.

 

[iguanaman]

Not as a solution to the shutdown.

So when Trump said that Mexico was paying for the wall he really meant the Democrats are? That sounds reasonable to you and docking the pay of 800,000 people to do it does too?

 

[trouble13]

Trump should of declared it a national emergency a least a month ago. He should vow not to sign any spending Bill's that do not include wall funding until after all the court challenges play themselves out. If the court upholds his authority to use the military then he can sign a continuing CR but if some.leftist judge wants to usurp the presidents authority, leave the gov shutdown until they give him a bill that is acceptable to him.

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[jghiretire]

I agree. Because basically all any President would have to do to force their own political agenda upon the country is to invoke it in the name of "national security". Something like this would definitely be putting us on the slippery slope toward authoritarianism.

We inch closer every day...........

 

[Taylor]

So when Trump said that Mexico was paying for the wall he really meant the Democrats are? That sounds reasonable to you and docking the pay of 800,000 people to do it does too?

If Democrats cared about these 800,000 people, they would be trying to negotiate a solution rather than sitting in their offices twiddling their thumbs. Democrats represent the 7% of Americans who believe that illegal immigration is not a problem.

 

[Saladin4]

If Democrats cared about these 800,000 people, they would be trying to negotiate a solution rather than sitting in their offices twiddling their thumbs. Democrats represent the 7% of Americans who believe that illegal immigration is not a problem.

They have offered over a Billion for Border security....trump insisted on a useless 5 Billion dollar wall...That isn't going to happen,...Not now.........Not ever

 

[iguanaman]

If Democrats cared about these 800,000 people, they would be trying to negotiate a solution rather than sitting in their offices twiddling their thumbs. Democrats represent the 7% of Americans who believe that illegal immigration is not a problem.

There is no solution to an out of control President except impeachment. This has nothing to do with illegal immigration and Trump has no plan to combat it anyway. It is all about sticking it to Democrats and making them pay for a boondoggle that Trumps own party would not. Trump did not even ask for this money in his 2018 budget, probably because he would have needed a plan to ask for it.

 

[Deuce]

All Presidents have EO authority. Trump has used his authority for the last 2 years. Obama used his. No different. Republicans screamed when Obama used his, and Democrats scream when Trump uses his.

Partisan politics at its best.

It's different because not all executive orders are the same.

 

[iguanaman]

They have offered over a Billion for Border security....trump insisted on a useless 5 Billion dollar wall...That isn't going to happen,...Not now.........Not ever

Not to mention that Trump has not even spent the last billion he got for "border security". This all about sticking it to the Democrats, nothing more.

 

[Deuce]

If Democrats cared about these 800,000 people, they would be trying to negotiate a solution rather than sitting in their offices twiddling their thumbs. Democrats represent the 7% of Americans who believe that illegal immigration is not a problem.

They did negotiate a solution.

If you don't support a wall the entire length of the Canadian border, you must not think illegal immigration is a problem.

 

[American]

Source: (CNN) Trump inclined to declare national emergency if talks continue to stall

My hope is that this is posturing, because otherwise I think we're heading into dangerous territory and possibly a Constitutional crisis.

Essentially, we have a President stymied in his attempts to get his pet project off the ground, who shuts-down the government when Congress refuses to fund said project. When that doesn't work for him, he decides to declare a national emergency and circumvent the Constitutional separation of military and civilian forces.

I submit Trump is treading on very dangerous ground here. Very dangerous.

He is a civilian, therefore he's separating nothing. He's bound by his oath to faithfully execute the Laws of the United States that include immigration laws and common defense. Protecting the border is doing just that. Your crisis is in the Legislative Branch, not the Executive.

 

[Deuce]

He is a civilian, therefore he's separating nothing. He's bound by his oath to faithfully execute the Laws of the United States that include immigration laws and common defense. Protecting the border is doing just that. Your crisis is in the Legislative Branch, not the Executive.

Using the military for law enforcement purposes is an extremely bad road to go down.

 

[jghiretire]

I wasn't too crazy about Obama being so quick with the pen either, especially with DACA (though we really don't know how SCOTUS will rule).

However emergency rules to circumvent normal Constitutional norms, as Trump wants to do, is for me definitely a bridge too far.

As to your last paragraph, I admit I'm pretty screwed here: Because I want secure borders & an end to illegal migration, but I can't truly stand Trump and believe nothing he says. Straight-up I'd go for a wall if I thought it would work, and we tried everything else. But we haven't even tried.

Where's E-Verify? That's what we need, and it's already done and working (but not working during shutdown, ironically). If Trump was willing to demand E-Verify, I'd find him more credible in needing a wall. But I suspect Trump doesn't want E-Verify for his own good, which means he's playing me on the wall. For that, I can't support him here (because he's unbelievable).

A "WALL" in and of itself won't work. Pay border patrol a decent wage. Hire more.

Find the people who have overstayed their visas. [video]https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/01/07/sarah-sanders-border-terrorist-claim-fox-news-fact-check-intv-es-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/[/video]

 

[HumblePi]

There it is.
When logic fails...go for the race card.
How...liberal of you.

EXCUSE ME, I went to the race card? Do you mean that I pointed out the fact that Trump and his supporters are xenophobic, which they are? It's absolutely true, not a shred of doubt about it. Trump has made full use of the racism in his base, that's always been obvious from the start.

 

[upsideguy]

Wasn't the DACA EO an "end run around Congress to get his way"?

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Yes, but the Executive Order/Action around DACA did not involve the invoking of an emergency power nor did it involve the commitment of troops nor did it call for spending north of $10B.

DACA was an ouchie; this is an amputation.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Trump is the head cheese.I voted for him.I'm behind him 100%.

Of course you did and are. No doubt about that.

 

[yankintx]

Yes, we know, something unrelated to border security. For Democrats, border security is something you really don't care about except that you can hold it hostage while you make other demands.

Where is the study validating Trumps claim that the wall will do as he says ? Trumps tweets are not research, most are half truths and outright lies. Why is the party of fiscal responsibility endorsing billions of tax dollors on a project with zero research.

 

[Saladin4]

trump's gang of goons and lawyers are getting ready to try and pull this off...Americans must resist and deny him at his attempt of being the Supreme Leader

 

[Top Cat]

Democrats can end this any day.....any day. They refuse to re-open the government.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL Trump own this ****storm.

 

[upsideguy]

I did not say he was right or wrong. Just that what he stated seems to be the Trump stance. The difference being that now it is democrats in congress and the media take issue, previously it was republicans who complained.

Not exactly comparable. Obama never committed the military, unilaterally changed their budget in a material way, declared an national emergency (especially when there was none), or attempted to unilaterally commit $50B to a single initiative that had only minority support. Trump's threat, if he follows through, is several magnitudes beyond what Obama did.

 

[American]

Using the military for law enforcement purposes is an extremely bad road to go down.

And he's not doing that.

 

[foolardi]

This is such a no brainer.Schumer and Pelosi openly snubbed and refused to
negotiate on funding the Government during the Holidays.Then when they did return
they gave Instead Ultimatums.Refusing to negotiate at all if the Wall was used as a
bargaining chip.Americans aren't about to forget this Unamerican display by drat democrats.
Who play games with the Border as if taking down Christmas lights, put up funky on
some cheesy plastic Christmas tree.
Schumer and Pelosi are Again banking on using their Snidely Whiplash Political
tactics in order to ensnare Trump on taking the entire blame for a Gov'mint Shutdown.
It won't work.It can't.Because we have Schumer voting for a much larger amount in 2006
and again in 2013 for funding border fences and security.This entire display by Pelosi
and Schumer is for Politcal Gamesmanhip.President Trump doesn't play games.He created
a board game { Trump's version of Monopoly } and moved on.He's Dead serious about
his duty as POTUS.To Keep America and Americans safe.
Pelosi and Schumer are just pathetic Political shills.Even Cartoon characters have better sense.

 

[foolardi]

And he's not doing that.

Correct a mon.Trump has at his ready around $ 100 Billion in the Defense
budget for use as he sees fit as Commander in the event of an Emergency.
All that remains is making the case that we as Americans are facing an Emergency
at are border.Which shouldn't be too hard a case to make.Seriously deadly and fatal
drugs are entering from our border,as are Mexican Drug cartel gangs.
Always keep in mind that Every Illegal is here Illegally.There is No Global right to
enter a country Illegally.Demcrats are attempting to rationalize that mindset.
Being in this Country Illegally is against the law.PERIOD.
Americans understand that.
Democrats are trying to rationalize it away.
Also keep in Mind.
Democrats Fix Nothing.They just blame others and make things worse.