- Joined
- Jul 17, 2022
- Messages
- 26,772
- Reaction score
- 20,424
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
If you actually had any on your side.
-
This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it
- Thread starter HenryChinaski
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 14,293
- Reaction score
- 5,482
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Socialist
Okay, when someone is posting an actual statement from NARA and you are coming out lying about it, you prove that you are not interested in debating anything. You are just trolling openly now.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2016
- Messages
- 7,821
- Reaction score
- 1,575
- Location
- State of Jefferson
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Right
But your entire argument originates form dipshits shouting crap on twitter.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 14,293
- Reaction score
- 5,482
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Socialist
Do not tell me anything about my argument before you read it and quote it!
Unless you want to troll...
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2011
- Messages
- 114,513
- Reaction score
- 53,932
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
There was nothing in that post that says that anything comes from Trump's lawyers in their filings.
If you think there is, please provide a specific quote from whatever filing.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 14,293
- Reaction score
- 5,482
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Socialist
He gave you the link with Trump's legal RESPONSE
What is the title of the document my clueless MAGA supporter?
DONALD J. TRUMP’S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO THE UNITED STATES’ MOTION FOR A PARTIAL STAY PENDING APPEAL
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 14,900
- Reaction score
- 17,544
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
Psst - Federal law says that the former President will have access to their own Presidential Records.
(And no, that does not mean the FPOTUS owns the records and can keep them in a storeroom in their basement. It does mean that the FPOTUS (whether it's Obama or Trump) will have access via the NARA to the storage facility to review.)
WW
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 14,293
- Reaction score
- 5,482
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Socialist
I will have to disagree
See Mycroft's response and tell me if you seriously think that he is fairly intelligent poster.
The guy gets the information right in his face and still struggles with comprehending it!
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2016
- Messages
- 7,821
- Reaction score
- 1,575
- Location
- State of Jefferson
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian - Right
Regarding the NARA. It's irrelevant, disagreement there (every president has them) would be a pure civil matter. It became irrelevant when the Left/Democrats sent their Gestapo to raid a political opponents home.
Leftist, as a pure political matter: Please keep doing crap like this. Most Americans now know who the real American authoritarian thugs are, keep proving it.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 14,293
- Reaction score
- 5,482
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Socialist
No, it is not just a civil matter when documents are related to national defense. People have already quoted the different statutes that can bring criminal charges.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2011
- Messages
- 114,513
- Reaction score
- 53,932
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
Give me a quote.He gave you the link with Trump's legal RESPONSE
What is the title of the document my clueless MAGA supporter?
DONALD J. TRUMP’S RESPONSE IN OPPOSITION TO THE UNITED STATES’ MOTION FOR A PARTIAL STAY PENDING APPEAL
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2022
- Messages
- 26,772
- Reaction score
- 20,424
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
Do not feed the sealions.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 14,293
- Reaction score
- 5,482
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Socialist
HE gave it to you IN BOLD!!
READ IT IN HIS POST
Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it
It says in the EO that classification authorities have to go through a process outlined in the EO. As I tried to explain to @Mycroft, the EO lists the President as one of said classification authorities. Now, some people argue that Presidents are not subject to EOs even if the EO says that...
debatepolitics.com
Do you want me to spell it to you too?
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2011
- Messages
- 114,513
- Reaction score
- 53,932
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
Maybe you...and Post...should get back in tune with what Post said: "Trump declared Obama's E.O. applied to him...".
HE gave it to you IN BOLD!!
READ IT IN HIS POST
Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it
It says in the EO that classification authorities have to go through a process outlined in the EO. As I tried to explain to @Mycroft, the EO lists the President as one of said classification authorities. Now, some people argue that Presidents are not subject to EOs even if the EO says that...
Do you want me to spell it to you too?
Trump declared no such thing...in fact, he has declared the opposite. I'm still waiting for something from Post to justify his statement.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2022
- Messages
- 26,772
- Reaction score
- 20,424
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
Why? That's your idiotic point to make, and nobody else's.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 19,295
- Reaction score
- 8,601
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
Three posters turned the thread into a MAGA rally, a presentation of serial projection and associated disinfo.
National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) Fact ...
https://www.archives.gov › press › factsheetMay 2, 2022 — "The records of the nation's civil, military, and diplomatic activities are ... temporary site in Hoffman Estates, Illinois (The Barack Obama ..."
Presidential historian: Way Trump obtained, kept classified material is unprecedented
Presidential historian Michael Beschloss on Sunday said former President Trump’s handling of classified documents after he left office did not align with the actions taken by his predecessors. “We have never in history seen a former president take ultra-classified documents, stick them in his...
Presidential historian: Way Trump obtained, kept classified material is unprecedented
Zach Schonfeld August 14, 2022“...President Trump is absolutely right,” Beschloss said on NBC when asked about Trump’s claim.
“Barack Obama has tens of millions of documents, and they are in a National Archives installation, Hoffman Estates, Ill., under armed guard with heavy surveillance, using the procedures that are supposed to be used for a former president,” he added.
The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) has also debunked Trump’s claim, saying it maintains classified Obama records in a government facility in the Washington, D.C., area.
“As required by the [Presidential Records Act], former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration,” the agency said in a statement.
Beschloss on NBC also detailed how presidents before Obama handled their records, referencing former President Eisenhower’s documents being kept on a military base as one example.
“This is not something that we have seen before,” Beschloss said. “Don’t think this is normal procedure.”
Face of Defense: Airman Provides Logistics for Obama’s Archival Move
In Washington, archivists are packing thousands of items and records from President Barack Obama's administration to ship to Chicago. Air Force Lt. Col. Vianesa Vargas leads the team of airmen,
www.defense.gov
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2019
- Messages
- 14,293
- Reaction score
- 5,482
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Socialist
His lawyers declared in court that Obama's EO applied to him.
READ HIS BOLD QUOTE which comes from the legal filings of his lawyers.
President Obama enacted the current Executive Order prescribing the parameters for controlling classified information in 2009. See Exec. Order 13526 (Dec. 29, 2009). That Executive Order, which controlled during President Trump’s term in office, designates the President as an original classification authority. See id. § 1.3(a)(1). In turn, the Executive Order grants authority to declassify information to either the official who originally classified the information or that individual’s supervisors—necessarily including the President. § 3.1(b)(1), (3). Thus, assuming the Executive Order could even apply to constrain a President, cf. 50 U.S.C. § 3163, the President enjoys absolute authority under the Executive Order to declassify any information.
The red part is equivalent to what Post told you. Trump declared Obama's E.O applied to him!
You continue to demonstrate how clueless you are about even the position of your side! You do not understand what they argue. You are just parroting things you hear without really understanding what is going on
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2019
- Messages
- 12,685
- Reaction score
- 16,181
- Location
- In the center of it all.
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
I'm not a fan of Professor Tribe, but at least he's a real lawyer.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2021
- Messages
- 7,370
- Reaction score
- 5,407
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
But that's the phenomenon I'm referring to.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2013
- Messages
- 22,344
- Reaction score
- 32,502
- Location
- Mid-West USA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Other
What do you find confusing about this sentence; "only designated officials within the DoE may declassify Restricted Data"? Do you see any mention of 'except the POTUS' anywhere in the following? POTUS does not have unlimited powers, no matter how hard you wish, and there are good reasons for restricting his/her authority. Can you think why that might be?
Powers of the president of the United States - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Is the Department of Energy under the control of the Congress, or is it an Agency of the Executive Branch?
My understanding is that Congress has no "executive power" listed in the Constitution. That under said Constitution, the President is the Chief Executive.
That said, Congress has no such power to limit the President per Article II of the US Constitution.
The President can declassify anything that a Dept. executive of any Agency that falls under his Executive Authority can classify/declassify.
Again, simply read Article 2. Congress cannot limit the President's Executive Authority, under the "current" Constitution.
The CONSITUTION is the supreme document of Authority over the Federal government.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2022
- Messages
- 26,772
- Reaction score
- 20,424
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
Too bad he didn't and instead just stole top secret docs. What a dumbass.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2011
- Messages
- 114,513
- Reaction score
- 53,932
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
The EO is directed at agencies and individuals that are subordinate to the President. The President can follow the procedures outlined in the EO...if he wants to...but he doesn't have to. And THAT is what Trump has consistently said. Furthermore, court rulings support what he says.
Trump has never said that he is bound by the EO.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2013
- Messages
- 22,344
- Reaction score
- 32,502
- Location
- Mid-West USA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Other
There is no required process for Presidential declassification.
None of the "rules" created by a President apply to the sitting President.
As I've already argued in this this thread, he cannot simply "think" it is declassified, but he can ACT to indicate something is declassified.
Say by telling his staff to pack such and so "classified" documents for his use after leaving office. His mere ACTION declassifies them as would him writing any memo, or making a public announcement of the contents without any requirement like saying before such announcement "I declassify!"
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2022
- Messages
- 26,772
- Reaction score
- 20,424
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
Haha, good luck with that horseshit. Especially a week after a judge said Trump had to prove he declassified documents.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2022
- Messages
- 26,772
- Reaction score
- 20,424
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
@Captain Adverse
Let's review how dumb your position is.
You literally believe a president can say, 18 months later, that he merely thought about declassifying the documents 18 months ago, even if he didn't think that and is lying his ass off.
And that means the docs are now declassified.
Hoo boy, pass the lobotomizer...
Let's review how dumb your position is.
You literally believe a president can say, 18 months later, that he merely thought about declassifying the documents 18 months ago, even if he didn't think that and is lying his ass off.
And that means the docs are now declassified.
Hoo boy, pass the lobotomizer...