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Trump: I could declassify documents by thinking about it

Anthony60 said:
No, that's irrelevant. What the hell does it matter what Garland thinks? His goal is to get Trump, like most Democrats. They don't give a crap what our Constitution says. Who is going to stop them?
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It's not about the constitution. As POTUS, while POTUS, he can declassify anything he wants.

What's at issue is what it takes to get that done. Thinking about it while taking a dump isn't an order. It's a thought, and thoughts cannot be orders. No one is put on notice by a thought, so there's no scenario in which a thought, allegedly recalled years later, attested to by no one because the thought never left Trump's head, can be legally binding on anyone.

It's scary that people actually take this seriously. The only proper response to an assertion, "I thought about it, therefore it was done" is
 
Isn't this 'thinking' in line with everything we seen?
We wish trump won in 2020 , so we think there was fraud.
We wish trump was innocent so we think the FBI planted documents.
We wish trump was innocent so we think Cheney is corrupt.
We wish trump was innocent because we think Hillary did something,

Like you noted Jasper, I thought about it, therefore it was done"
 
A golf resort is not a secure government facility where sensitive materials must, by law, be stored. The National Archive is such a place. Despite repeated requests Trump refused to return the bulk of the material he had no right whatsoever to retain on a civilian property. That's why the Feds went in. 'Double locked' doors is no excuse. Ignorance of the law is no excuse either. Trump ignored the law pertaining to the handling and storage of classified material, presumably for his own amusement.
 

To clarify I have never stated violation of Executive orders is a criminal act or have I said one President is jlegallly bound by the actions of another President.


To further clarify:

1-the type of classification category issue is not material to the determination of violating the Presidential Records Act-the possession of any Presidential document by Trump once he no longer was President and left office and took them with him proves the violation of the Presidential Records Act. He has already admitted to violating this Act.

2-I have always advised that Trump's use of Presidential documents after he left office might with additional evidence of his intent, prove espionage a distinct legal issue of criminality.

3-I have said and I will suggest it again the inherent subject matter of specific documents, i.e.. the personal information on President Marcon of France, the detailed nuclear and military profile of another sovereign nature could create a criminal offence in that the very posession of such info compromised and edangered to the best interests of the US and its security even though they may never have been transferred to a third party for sale, benefit or can be shown to have caused a direct action as a result detrimental to the US. Why?. The fact that Trump has them when he is NOT President, is sufficient to cause damage to the best interests of the US because now foreign nations when dealing with the US must assume secret confidential info could remain with former Presidents no longer in office. Not only that imagine what foreign governments are thinking-what if that info was about our leader or military details sitting around in an unsecured office....

I also think his repeated business dealings in Moscow which refinanced his entire empire compromised him and turned him into a dupe for Russia.

How much was manipulated out of him by false flattery, how much by out and out coercion remains to be seen.

I think another vital part of the story yet to come out is who and how Trump met Melania and who her father was and how he travelled with Donny everywhere serving as his "advisor".

The true story is emerging and will surface slowly in the next 10 years and long after Trump and Putin are dead.
 
Well I have nothing framed from Fat Boy Kim of North Korea ( a favourite of yours) but I have pictures I have framed in my office from the Finnish Prime Minister and the head of the Economic Union. I also have one with the Queen of England.



me and Sanna



me and Ursula



me and the Queen
 
Paradoxical said:
His forgiveness of student loans. his mandate that everyone be vaccinated and to fire brave first responders who aren't. There are many many more.
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LOL ! Oh, the humanity! You never post in objection to E.O.'s obviously unconstitutional intended to make the maximum number avoidably suffer, motivated by calculated stimulation of racist, xenophobe political supporters!

The Cruelty Is the Point - The Atlantic​

https://www.theatlantic.com › ideas › archive › 2018/10
Oct 3, 2018 — The cruelty of the Trump administration's policies, and the ritual rhetorical flaying of his targets before his supporters, are intimately ...

Trump's Timeline of Hate - Human Rights Campaign​

https://www.hrc.org › resources › trumps-timeline-of-hate
Trump signed an executive order directing the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to begin constructing a wall along the Mexico-U.S. border. He also ordered ...


 
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But what you're asserting is he can say to someone, "Pack up those boxes, with ??????? documents marked classified" therefore they ARE declassified. Which ones? You can't get out of the starting gate.

If he conveys to Biden that he took ????? documents marked classified, some at the highest levels, within hours after taking control, the executive branch's next step is to 1) demand now private citizen identify those docs, and 2) return them NOW.

At the very least, the current executive branch has to be put on notice that those hundreds or more classified secrets must now be treated as in the public domain, and known to friend and foe, so they can take appropriate actions. The reasons for this are obvious, but the easiest example is to consider a list or other documentation of our covert agents overseas.

That requires disclosing to the now current executive branch in some fashion exactly what marked classified docs are in those boxes and will soon be held by a private citizen with no more right to possess or read highly classified information as you or me. Furthermore, the current executive branch has the authority to classify what they want, and so overrule the now private citizen's right or prerogative to take a list of, perhaps, human intelligence sources (i.e. covert agents) and frame them as decorations for MAL, but they can't reclassify ???????? or protect against further disclosure ????????

There is a critical distinction between an action that reveals classified information to the public - "writing a memo (presumably for public release AND RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC), or making a public announcement" - and putting ?????? document in a box and moving it anywhere. The latter reveals nothing to anyone.

Finally, none of this excuses Trump lying to the grand jury, asserting that he did return all documents marked classified (then keeping 100), exactly so the current executive branch can take appropriate action. He is a private citizen and has no more right or prerogative to ignore a grand jury subpoena as you or I do, which is none. If demanded to return those documents, he must either comply or object to the subpoena within the bounds of THE LAW, which does not include instructing the lawyer to lie her ass off on Trump's behalf to the grand jury. In no scenario is that within Trump's legal rights. And none of this changes the PRA that gives the NARA the exclusive possession and control over all presidential records, including the documents marked and presumed still classified.

That latter is kind of key because if he'd boxed them up and transferred the government docs (and documents marked classified cannot possibly fit into the 'personal records' as defined in the law) to NARA as required by THE LAW, there is no issue. So Trump violated the law by first retaining all those documents, then by lying to the grand jury. Those are at minimum. That's even if by some magic trick he CAN declassify it with his mind, or as you prefer to frame it, by some arbitrary action that puts no one on notice what docs are now presumed in the public domain, such as by simply moving ?????? documents from A to B.
 
He never had any objection to giving them to the NA. They were working on it (just like Obama is working on his records) and the NA and FBI and DOJ double-crossed him.
 
snakestretcher said:
If I say the sky is coloured scarlet do you take my word for it, or do you actually check? If Trump says he can declassify anything at will, with just a thought, do you take his word, or check what the law actually says?
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There is none.
 
and.........? Want to send Trump to the corner?
 
This is why I have so many posts. I answer nearly every post, no matter how dumb the post is.
 
These are irrelevant issues.

Dismissed.
 
Pack what documents up? Pack ????? documents up, so therefore ????? information must now be treated by the executive branch as in the public domain? How is the executive branch to know what previously classified information is in those boxes if there's no record?

And it's also a stretch to invent the 'Pack these documents up, I intend to use them for....' narrative, when there's no evidence even that discussion happened. Did he tell someone to pack up specific documents? If so there's a list, and Trump can point to that list, but that list doesn't exist. What appears to have happened is Trump effectively instructed someone to pack EVERYTHING up, including boxes with ????? contents and then deliver it all to MAL, contrary to THE LAW, the PRA.

Your position is Trump declassified some of the most closely guarded secrets of the USG by accident, with no more knowledge of what he just made effectively in the public domain than he might have jammed that document in a box sometime in the past 4 years.
 
snakestretcher said:
The election was stolen. Trump said so. He also told you that Mexico would pay for his wall. Neither were true; why? Because I checked.
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Covid was over longago. Our evil politicians are using the canard to spend money lavishly on those who are irresponsible.
 
Paradoxical said:
He never had any objection to giving them to the NA. They were working on it (just like Obama is working on his records) and the NA and FBI and DOJ double-crossed him.
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He lied to the grand jury. Trump is a moron, who didn't believe the law applied to him. No one double crossed anyone. When POS liars lie in response to grand jury subpoenas, the DOJ treats them like POS liars who are not operating in good faith, and so DoJ seized the documents. Fault? Trump.
 
All I can do is present the facts...even when there are "10,000 responses" from people who disregard the facts.
 
A vacant furniture warehouse is far better. Most likely vacant because it's in a crap area prone to break-ins and theft at night.
 
Too much stuff there. Sorry, I am way too busy to look at several links with no excerpts. I'm sure you understand.
 
He lied to the grand jury? Link please
 
I think you have three groups of people (at least) arguing this.

You have some asserting, as you do, that there needs to be some procedure. I don't disagree with that, however, there isn't one and without that procedure, his power is literally whatever he claims it is (and can at least attest to in court that he did)
You have another group saying he doesn't have the power.
And then the group arguing he does.
 
Paradoxical said:
and.........? Want to send Trump to the corner?
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Just to let you know that your claim of double-lock was lacking in correctness.

For 16 of the 18 months that the FPOTUS was in illegal possession of government property (which included classified documents), there was no double-lock.

But as I said, I appreciate that they installed one while the DOJ was getting the search warrant. Good on them.

WW
 
Paradoxical said:
You should stick to a topic you know as well.
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Shoulda woulda coulda. I'm stoked for the blues festival this weekend.

Here. Something worthwhile.


Bonnie won't be there, but Carolyn's at the Tahoe Stage 3:00 tomorrow. Hell yeah.

You go back to whatever is you're doing.
 
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