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Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from new tariffs

How about bananas? Trump put tariffs on bananas. Where are we going to manufacture bananas? In the Kansas Banana Manufacturing plant?
What's the best US region to grow coffee beans?
 
What's the best US region to grow coffee beans?
Alaska?

Seriously, Hawaii, I guess. But the entire island chain would have to be converted to coffee growing, and I don't know if even that would meet our demand.

It would be way simpler to lift the tariffs on Columbia and other coffee-supplying nations.

But that would be the sane thing to do, so obviously, it's off the table.

And get out of here with any talk about tea. Yech. But, wait, even tea's imported too...!
 
I think it's going to be an exciting day on Wall St tomorrow.


Might allocate more to tech. Grab some Apple and Nvidia if there's an opening.
 
None of this is impulsive, he knows what he is doing.

Trump - the six-time bankrupt convicted felon and notorious liar - knows what he's doing. And you say this even when it's painfully obvious that he doesn't. What in the world compels you people to continue to defend this absolute moron?
 
Trump was not only dealing with Democrats during his first term, he was also dealing with Republicans in both the House and Senate who resented his being chosen over the other 17 established Republicans from both houses of Congress he ran against.



Trump is not being impulsive. :rolleyes: He is using a tool in the power to set tariffs to both negotiate fairer trade agreements and to compel other "dependent" nations to comply with various policies to improve American Industry and trade. For example, his insistence on the EU nations to buy energy from the USA.

None of this is impulsive, he knows what he is doing.
If there is a plan, why do so many of his actions contradict each other from week to week and, in some cases, from day to day? I don't buy the snake oil you are trying to sell me.

"We're putting the tariffs in place to end the drug war. We're also putting tariffs in place to improve our trade deals. We want to bring manufacturing back to the US, except when we negotiate and confuse industries about our intent by not bringing the manufacturing back to the US that we said we were targeting. We're also being tough on China and improving our national security by targeting their chips, except when we choose not to target their chips and put other exemptions in place on the very things we've been providing a narrative about as being tough on China.

We have China backed into a trade corner, except when China and the EU create their own trade deals because we imposed bad faith trade restrictions with the EU. We're negotiating with 75 countries to improve our trade [and hopefully have them agree not to trade with China], but we won't release any of the information about what we're really negotiating about or who those countries are. But believe us, this is the most transparent administration you have ever seen!"

(NOTE: Not an actual quote but sums up many of the talking points I've heard via conservative news sources and also used by conservative posters on these forums.)

Why do you buy the snake oil?
 
Trump was not only dealing with Democrats during his first term, he was also dealing with Republicans in both the House and Senate who resented his being chosen over the other 17 established Republicans from both houses of Congress he ran against.



Trump is not being impulsive. :rolleyes: He is using a tool in the power to set tariffs to both negotiate fairer trade agreements and to compel other "dependent" nations to comply with various policies to improve American Industry and trade. For example, his insistence on the EU nations to buy energy from the USA.

None of this is impulsive, he knows what he is doing.

Do you actually believe anything you're writing?

Be honest.

Do you actually believe anything you're writing?

I think our collective efforts at debating each other don't influence public opinion in the slightest way. It's just sort of fun to argue with people on the internet. So, you're not going to lose anything on here with us by distancing yourself from the Trump administration. No one expects you to carry water for them. It's not something you have to do unless you want to.

I say this because it seems to me that even people who are biased in favor of Trump can now clearly see he has absolutely no idea what he's doing. He truly is like the character in the child's story The Emperor's New Clothes. Trump's total lack of competence is now on full display for everyone to see.
 
Me too. It's as if the entire forum has just about fully turned into a liberal echo chamber.
Do you think it's a forum problem or do you think Trump supporters are quiet because it's become increasingly difficult to defend his behavior?
If you think it's a forum problem, can you explain why?
 
Do you think it's a forum problem or do you think Trump supporters are quiet because it's become increasingly difficult to defend his behavior?
If you think it's a forum problem, can you explain why?
You gotta admit, it has to be exhausting to defend Trump's idiocy day after day.
 
Apple doesn't use anything special they get flea market trash from China. And then turn around and charge $1,000 for phones. All this means for Apple is the CEO isn't going to be able to afford his gold-plated toilet brush this year.

You're grossly underestimating the tasks involved.
 
Do you think it's a forum problem or do you think Trump supporters are quiet because it's become increasingly difficult to defend his behavior?
If you think it's a forum problem, can you explain why?
My view is the liberal/conservative imbalance on the forum is counterproductive. That's not the fault of the forum or any left or right posters. It's just the way the numbers now fall.

But that leads to a situation where the conversation ends up very one sided, and the narratives and drama build to a very high level (with all the left voices feeding one another).

I think Trump supporters, in general, feel that Trump is getting a lot done and they love his motivation, drive, and accomplishments. Starting with DOGE, I think Republican support is VERY high for what is being uncovered and reduced. Then the border and deportations. Once again, I think Republican support is VERY high for his efforts and successes here. Then the forward progress toward the one big beautiful bill. Here too, I think Republican support is VERY high. Then inflation, so far so good. The numbers are good - like the CPI number from Thursday. Gas is down, mortgage rates are down, eggs are under control, etc. People (mostly Dems) say the tariffs are going to cause high inflation, but we haven't seen that yet.

The tariffs bring more disagreement. While I think many Republicans like the long term goal of fair and balanced trade, the tariffs and that process are making some Republicans feel uncertain and nervous. I'm one who is more than willing to give the tariff plan a chance because I'd love to see trade straightened out and to see the production of some of our most important things happen here at home (like medicine, transportation, energy, and more).

So that's how I think Republicans are feeling. Dems are another story entirely.

I see Dems as furious, feeling Trump is ending the world, hoping beyond all hope that he'll fail miserably, so focused on that failure hope that they now actually want China to "beat" or "crush" Trump (and by default, our country). That's the attitude I think those on the left bring to every thread and with sky high drama. It's a continuation of the Trump hate from his first term and foward to before his second term inauguration - but now amped up by a lot. The more Trump does, the more the left hates him. And Trump is a very busy guy, doing a lot, so the more the left is getting riled up.

This makes for a massive disconnect between the left and right in conversations. So, I think it's just become worthless for the right. Conservatives might as well just leave the (high majority on this forum) left to talk amongst themselves. Leave the left to imagine that the right suddenly disapproves of or has lost support for Trump. That's not reality but the left is spinning so hard, they can't see reality despite what calmer Dem voices are trying to tell them about the situation their own party is currently in.

I'm expect this comment from me will generate a big reaction from several on the left - but you asked me and I'm simply responding with my view and my take. Even your question shows me how very different your view is from mine. If you really think or simply feel better thinking Republicans have soured on Trump (thus don't want to "defend his behavior"), that's your prerogative.
 
My view is the liberal/conservative imbalance on the forum is counterproductive. That's not the fault of the forum or any left or right posters. It's just the way the numbers now fall.

But that leads to a situation where the conversation ends up very one sided, and the narratives and drama build to a very high level (with all the left voices feeding one another).

I think Trump supporters, in general, feel that Trump is getting a lot done and they love his motivation, drive, and accomplishments. Starting with DOGE, I think Republican support is VERY high for what is being uncovered and reduced. Then the border and deportations. Once again, I think Republican support is VERY high for his efforts and successes here. Then the forward progress toward the one big beautiful bill. Here too, I think Republican support is VERY high. Then inflation, so far so good. The numbers are good - like the CPI number from Thursday. Gas is down, mortgage rates are down, eggs are under control, etc. People (mostly Dems) say the tariffs are going to cause high inflation, but we haven't seen that yet.

The tariffs bring more disagreement. While I think many Republicans like the long term goal of fair and balanced trade, the tariffs and that process are making some Republicans feel uncertain and nervous. I'm one who is more than willing to give the tariff plan a chance because I'd love to see trade straightened out and to see the production of some of our most important things happen here at home (like medicine, transportation, energy, and more).

So that's how I think Republicans are feeling. Dems are another story entirely.

I see Dems as furious, feeling Trump is ending the world, hoping beyond all hope that he'll fail miserably, so focused on that failure hope that they now actually want China to "beat" or "crush" Trump (and by default, our country). That's the attitude I think those on the left bring to every thread and with sky high drama. It's a continuation of the Trump hate from his first term and foward to before his second term inauguration - but now amped up by a lot. The more Trump does, the more the left hates him. And Trump is a very busy guy, doing a lot, so the more the left is getting riled up.

This makes for a massive disconnect between the left and right in conversations. So, I think it's just become worthless for the right. Conservatives might as well just leave the (high majority on this forum) left to talk amongst themselves. Leave the left to imagine that the right suddenly disapproves of or has lost support for Trump. That's not reality but the left is spinning so hard, they can't see reality despite what calmer Dem voices are trying to tell them about the situation their own party is currently in.

I'm expect this comment from me will generate a big reaction from several on the left - but you asked me and I'm simply responding with my view and my take. Even your question shows me how very different your view is from mine. If you really think or simply feel better thinking Republicans have soured on Trump (thus don't want to "defend his behavior"), that's your prerogative.
Bottom line not very different than the attacks from the right on Biden and the hateful rhetoric towards him, you being particularly vocal in your disgust with him. Difference is the left engaged and didn't stop posting or run off safer havens. My personal opinion is the right is finding it less and less easy to defend his actions on many fronts not just the economy.

.....and BTW CPI numbers etc were pre this asinine trade stuff.
 
That is not the only purpose. The other purpose is FAIR trade. For one example, selling cars in the European Market where Germany has both high tariffs on American cars as well as Value Added Taxes (VAT's) on them. This places the costs of buying an American car outside the range of the average German citizen. This is done to protect the German car sales.
I understand that. I'm not ignorant as to the economic rationale behind Trump's actions, I'm inquiring as to how using tariffs to force domestic production to return to the States is compatible with using them to negotiate fair trade? I see this as fundamentally incompatible.
That is NONSENSE, and completely opposite of what is occurring. If the foreign producer builds a factory in the USA to make the products, then aside from normal sales taxes (which apply regardless of tariffs) there are no tariffs because the cars are made in the USA. The profit for the Car company is increased due to this.
Again, yes, I understand the goal and the reasoning behind it. I'm addressing the execution.

Why should businesses hold confidence to move that production back here now when Trump is giving zero confidence nor semblance of stability in the economic policy he appears willing to implement? The only reason businesses would be given impetus to move production back here is if they are looking at paying absurd tariffs, and for years (as that's the time investment it will take to shift production to the U.S.) when he does things suddenly, such as putting a pause on tariffs for 90 days because "Well, some people were getting a bit yippy, some people were getting afraid". That reasoning does not sound like it fell from the master plan "Art of the Deal" handbook, it sounds very reactionary, and from something that Trump is conceding to that he was not expecting and was taken by surprise.

Why should business owners commit to such drastic action in shifting production that are dependent on Trump NOT lifting tariffs, when he is demonstrating himself to hold no conviction to the economic policies required to enforce such action? What are businesses supposed to think watching all this chaos and hem-hawing, which, if it actually does, it certainly doesn't give off the appearance that this man has any clue as to what he is doing?
Clearly, but IMO only due to two things. Your failure to actually research the situation including the history leading up to this, and your preexisting confirmation bias indicating a negative view of President Trump. IMO you are "indoctrinated" to expect only evil from him.
No, I am very reasonably "inclined" to expect stupidity from him, based on careful observation of his statements and actions through the past ten years, a perusal of his life and multiple failed business ventures long before that, alongside an examination of his demonstrated character traits that lends him no credit in his manner of governance concordant with his personality traits and demonstrated business acumen up to this point. This is a valid distinction. I don't think research will do anything to nullify that.
 
My view is the liberal/conservative imbalance on the forum is counterproductive. That's not the fault of the forum or any left or right posters. It's just the way the numbers now fall.

But that leads to a situation where the conversation ends up very one sided, and the narratives and drama build to a very high level (with all the left voices feeding one another).

I think Trump supporters, in general, feel that Trump is getting a lot done and they love his motivation, drive, and accomplishments. Starting with DOGE, I think Republican support is VERY high for what is being uncovered and reduced. Then the border and deportations. Once again, I think Republican support is VERY high for his efforts and successes here. Then the forward progress toward the one big beautiful bill. Here too, I think Republican support is VERY high. Then inflation, so far so good. The numbers are good - like the CPI number from Thursday. Gas is down, mortgage rates are down, eggs are under control, etc. People (mostly Dems) say the tariffs are going to cause high inflation, but we haven't seen that yet.

The tariffs bring more disagreement. While I think many Republicans like the long term goal of fair and balanced trade, the tariffs and that process are making some Republicans feel uncertain and nervous. I'm one who is more than willing to give the tariff plan a chance because I'd love to see trade straightened out and to see the production of some of our most important things happen here at home (like medicine, transportation, energy, and more).

So that's how I think Republicans are feeling. Dems are another story entirely.

I see Dems as furious, feeling Trump is ending the world, hoping beyond all hope that he'll fail miserably, so focused on that failure hope that they now actually want China to "beat" or "crush" Trump (and by default, our country). That's the attitude I think those on the left bring to every thread and with sky high drama. It's a continuation of the Trump hate from his first term and foward to before his second term inauguration - but now amped up by a lot. The more Trump does, the more the left hates him. And Trump is a very busy guy, doing a lot, so the more the left is getting riled up.

This makes for a massive disconnect between the left and right in conversations. So, I think it's just become worthless for the right. Conservatives might as well just leave the (high majority on this forum) left to talk amongst themselves. Leave the left to imagine that the right suddenly disapproves of or has lost support for Trump. That's not reality but the left is spinning so hard, they can't see reality despite what calmer Dem voices are trying to tell them about the situation their own party is currently in.

I'm expect this comment from me will generate a big reaction from several on the left - but you asked me and I'm simply responding with my view and my take. Even your question shows me how very different your view is from mine. If you really think or simply feel better thinking Republicans have soured on Trump (thus don't want to "defend his behavior"), that's your prerogative.
Just as a reminder, I asked you why you think there are fewer comments in here defending Trump.
I think you are saying that anti-Trump people have so many misconceptions about Trump that Trump supporters don't want to bother defending him in here.
IMO, if that were true, I think it would be easy to defend him against misconceptions 🤷‍♀️
 
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Alaska?

Seriously, Hawaii, I guess. But the entire island chain would have to be converted to coffee growing, and I don't know if even that would meet our demand.

It would be way simpler to lift the tariffs on Columbia and other coffee-supplying nations.

But that would be the sane thing to do, so obviously, it's off the table.

And get out of here with any talk about tea. Yech. But, wait, even tea's imported too...!
There is a reason one of the most expensive real estate venues doesn’t knock down those expensive hotels and homes and plant coffee. It’s the same reason we don’t bulldoze San Francisco to grow vegetables.

Yes, the tariffs are insane. As Paul Krugman wrote in today’s Substack, U.S. manufacturing relies on imported inputs, from steel to screws, that are becoming much more expensive because of tariffs. The latest twist in tariff plans, the exclusion of electronics announced Saturday, lets final products in free while taxing inputs, actively discouraging U.S. production. Let me repost Joey Politano’s quick summary:

 
That is not the only purpose. The other purpose is FAIR trade. For one example, selling cars in the European Market where Germany has both high tariffs on American cars as well as Value Added Taxes (VAT's) on them. This places the costs of buying an American car outside the range of the average German citizen. This is done to protect the German car sales.

VAT applies to all cars, including German ones. And the tariff rate is 10%. You might think that is high, but I don't.

If you think Germans would buy more American cars if there was no 10% tariff charge, then you are deluded. Why on earth do you think they would choose a Chevrolet or Chrysler over a BMW, Merc or Audi?
Germans were quite happy buying Teslas before Musk went all far-right, so the 10% tariff isn't a barrier. Germans don't buy US cars (except formerly Tesla) because they are either too big or have a reputation of poor quality.
 
That is not the only purpose. The other purpose is FAIR trade. For one example, selling cars in the European Market where Germany has both high tariffs on American cars as well as Value Added Taxes (VAT's) on them. This places the costs of buying an American car outside the range of the average German citizen. This is done to protect the German car sales.
...
As @Aristaeus said, the VAT is basically a sales tax and it applies to everything sold, even domestic production. It would be like complaining that the U.S. is unfair to Germany because Mercedes and Audis sold in New York are levied an 8-5/8% sales tax on Audis sold in NY.
 
As @Aristaeus said, the VAT is basically a sales tax and it applies to everything sold, even domestic production. It would be like complaining that the U.S. is unfair to Germany because Mercedes and Audis sold in New York are levied an 8-5/8% sales tax on Audis sold in NY.

Exactly. If Trump wants Europe to buy American cars, the car manufacturers ned to build cars that Europeans want, which is not massive SUVs and pickup trucks that do 15 MPG.
It's like India complaining that America doesn't buy tuk-tuks.
 
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