Trump: evacuate Tehran

[ElChupacabra]

Ask yourself the simple question: What is Israel's security worth to them? Isn't that what's important?

Of course, but the question is how that security is obtained and whether the threat has been accurately assessed.

Or do you feel we should dictate to that sovereign country what's important to them?

Every nation is in charge of managing its domestic and international interests. If Israel feels Iran is an imminent threat and wants to solve that through war, then that's its choice. I have no interest in involving our troops to their end, especially when our country was working on a diplomatic solution.

The decapitation of the head of the snake, the Supreme Mullah, could result it total chaos in Iran or it could lead to regime change benefiting the entire region. No one knows.

But we have a good guess based on several past experiences, including the last time we deposed their leader.

 

[ElChupacabra]

You wrote "If Trump had any sense, he would have pumped the brakes on this but since he doesn't, now things have gone south."
How far south have we gone? Are we using our weapons offensively in Iran? Do we have boots on the ground there?

We do not, but have ships on the way.

Your judgment is being clouded by your distaste for Trump.

My distaste for Trump is irrelevant, since I've pointed out the specific areas of concern that have more to do with how he responds to things. I am not shy about saying he's an abject idiot, but I've been pretty specific about my concerns.

It's visible in every one of your posts.
You want him to lose and you want America to lose because of your concrete ideology against America.

Sorry, this is daft and a deflection to what I've stated.

 

[gbg3]

The nauseating lies coming from the anti-Trumps is to be expected. Trump has been clear. Iran cannot have nuclear weapons/capabilities. He is trying to save lives, but look at them spin the narrative into something evil.

Netanyahu and Trump, as the team they have long consistently been, are a gift to this world right now, IMO.

The recent Baier interview with Netanyahu, was excellent. Bibi so clearly talked about the confidence the two have in one another and that's clear. I think their friendship is so important and so valuable. I think that region will end up in such a better place as a result of these two men working together.

It's hard to say what will happen with that region of the world beyond the leadership of those two men, but I think they will bring this situation to a place such that this world will no longer need to worry about a nuclear Iran for at least a decade - and if good leaders take us forward after them, maybe much, much longer than that.

What's happening right now is important!

 

[Callen]

Tglee recent Baier interview with Netanyahu, was excellent. Bibi so clearly talked about the confidence the two have in one another and that's clear. I think their friendship is so important and so valuable. I think that region will end up in such a better place as a result of these two men working together.

Bibi lied. Trump is nothing more than a pawn in his Chess game. Same with Putin. They both know how to play him and his base like a fiddle for their own purposes.

 

[anatta]

During his campaigns, (both), Trump repeatedly criticized U.S. involvement in "endless wars" and positioned himself as a peacemaker, vowing to avoid new conflicts. He gave Iran 60 days to come to their senses, and they rejected his offer. As a longtime ally, and under specific military acts granted to the POTUS to employ, Israel would be fully within their right to use what they need from the US's military to stop the nuclear threat. That's it.

If there is direct U.S. involvement, like an act of war or a declared war, and I've yet to see it, I will say Trump didn't keep his word to us.

we dont do declared wars. we do mission creep and then find ourselves with a war on our hands because we did poor contingency planning. Libya and Afghan are prime examples of getting sucked into regime change. Afghan we also wound up trying to create a government (nation building) for them!

Count me a vote for staying out of foreign wars, However I would support using the 'bunker busters' to finish off the rest of Iran's nuclear facilities. Just that 1 limited action

I'm confident Trump would not get sucked into a extended war. However if Iran attacks US bases in the region that would have to be responded to as well.. Maybe i'm not seeing the flashing red lights of danger. Hopefully Trump finishes the job. and that's the impetus for regime change. The hawks will want all kinds of scenarios .Trump is (hopefully) solid that dropping a MOAB doesn't lead to further escalation

 

[trixare4kids]

we dont do declared wars. we do mission creep and then find ourselves with a war on our hands because we did poor contingency planning. Libya and Afghan are prime examples of getting sucked into regime change. Afghan we also wound up trying to create a government (nation building) for them!

Count me a vote for staying out of foreign wars, However I would support using the 'bunker busters' to finish off the rest of Iran's nuclear facilities. Just that 1 limited action

I'm confident Trump would not get sucked into a extended war. However if Iran attacks US bases in the region that would have to be responded to as well.. Maybe i'm not seeing the flashing red lights of danger. Hopefully Trump finishes the job. and that's the impetus for regime change. The hawks will want all kinds of scenarios .Trump is (hopefully) solid that dropping a MOAB doesn't lead to further escalation

I'm on board only with this for the present.

Post in thread 'Israel Attacks Iran With The Notion That The US Is Going To Jump In And Save Them'

Wednesday at 9:00 PM

I don't think Israel has any need for the US to "jump in and save them". Hell, they are doing very well kicking Iran's butt right now. Why, Israel targeted and killed a slew of Iran's top people...and, when Iran replaced them, Israel killed THOSE people, too.

No, the only thing Israel needs the US for is the use of the bunker buster bombs the US will need to drop on that one big nuclear site that Iran has...the one buried deep under a mountain.

I couldn't agree more. Get it done, and then leave the rest behind.

• trixare4kids

• 

 

[anatta]

It i for he Iranian people to remove the current regime and to decide what will replace it. As you say there must be no meddling in Iran's affairs. This must be so because the country will not be occupied.as was Iraq for example. So there can be no outside 'plan' for the future.

The 'mess' that the evil theocracy is in is not the fault of 'the West' but of the Iranians themselves, the authors of their own misfortunes.

I bolded 2 wise ideas you posted. Whatever government happens after the thuggish theocracy is up to Iran. The US goal is to remove the military/nuke threat. Anything else has a potential for blow back

While Iran chose this path- inshallah 50 years of this dark path ends and finally relieves the Iranian people from their ordeal

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[anatta]

I'm on board only with this for the present.

Post in thread 'Israel Attacks Iran With The Notion That The US Is Going To Jump In And Save Them'

Wednesday at 9:00 PM

I don't think Israel has any need for the US to "jump in and save them". Hell, they are doing very well kicking Iran's butt right now. Why, Israel targeted and killed a slew of Iran's top people...and, when Iran replaced them, Israel killed THOSE people, too.

No, the only thing Israel needs the US for is the use of the bunker buster bombs the US will need to drop on that one big nuclear site that Iran has...the one buried deep under a mountain.

I couldn't agree more. Get it done, and then leave the rest behind.

• trixare4kids

• 

"1. then done"

 

[ElChupacabra]

Netanyahu and Trump, as the team they have long consistently been, are a gift to this world right now, IMO.

The recent Baier interview with Netanyahu, was excellent. Bibi so clearly talked about the confidence the two have in one another and that's clear. I think their friendship is so important and so valuable. I think that region will end up in such a better place as a result of these two men working together.

It's hard to say what will happen with that region of the world beyond the leadership of those two men, but I think they will bring this situation to a place such that this world will no longer need to worry about a nuclear Iran for at least a decade - and if good leaders take us forward after them, maybe much, much longer than that.

What's happening right now is important!

I think it's pretty clear who is leading who here, and it isn't Trump. The fact Trump said he didn't care about Gabbard's intelligence report about Iran's nuclear capability and chose to believe Netanyahu and his decade's old "Iran will have a weapon in 2 weeks!!" schtick, says all most need to know about who is calling the shots. Mind you, this is the same Netanyahi who testified Iraq was definitely working on a nuclear weapon, which it wasn't.

Now whether or not the US actually joins Israel in attacks is still up in the air, but what is not clear is what either of these leaders have in mind post conflict, since Netanyahu's been floating the regime change rhetoric more often now, and he knows he can't do that without the US. It's a matter of Trump folding once again and walking away from his original strategy and being led into a conflict by Netanyahu, who's beholden to his party of nutters.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[anatta]

this is the general status on Iran's nuke development:

Trump and U.S. intelligence appear at odds over Iran's nuclear progress

U.S. intelligence stands by its opinion that Iran has a large stockpile of enriched uranium but isn't close to creating a weapon. Trump said Wednesday that a weapon is “a few weeks” away.

www.nbcnews.com

Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told reporters he was perplexed by Trump's assertions as lawmakers have received a different picture from U.S. intelligence officials.

Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, told lawmakers in March that U.S. spy agencies assessed that Iran had not made a decision to build nuclear weapons but it had stockpiles of enriched uranium far beyond what is required for civilian purposes. The U.S. intelligence community’s view has not changed since her testimony, the source with knowledge of the matter said.

Warner said Wednesday that he received further confirmation of the March intelligence assessment “this week.”

On Tuesday, President Trump publicly dismissed Gabbard’s testimony, saying “I don’t care what she said.”

Warner said the administration needed to clarify if there was new intelligence on Iran’s nuclear work.
“So far, at least, the intelligence community has stood by its conclusion that Iran is not moving towards a nuclear weapon. They were enriching additional uranium, but they were not weaponizing that yet, and that (decision) was left with the supreme leader,” Warner said.

 

[ElChupacabra]

this is the general status on Iran's nuke development:

Trump and U.S. intelligence appear at odds over Iran's nuclear progress

U.S. intelligence stands by its opinion that Iran has a large stockpile of enriched uranium but isn't close to creating a weapon. Trump said Wednesday that a weapon is “a few weeks” away.

www.nbcnews.com

Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told reporters he was perplexed by Trump's assertions as lawmakers have received a different picture from U.S. intelligence officials.

Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, told lawmakers in March that U.S. spy agencies assessed that Iran had not made a decision to build nuclear weapons but it had stockpiles of enriched uranium far beyond what is required for civilian purposes. The U.S. intelligence community’s view has not changed since her testimony, the source with knowledge of the matter said.

Warner said Wednesday that he received further confirmation of the March intelligence assessment “this week.”

On Tuesday, President Trump publicly dismissed Gabbard’s testimony, saying “I don’t care what she said.”

Warner said the administration needed to clarify if there was new intelligence on Iran’s nuclear work.
“So far, at least, the intelligence community has stood by its conclusion that Iran is not moving towards a nuclear weapon. They were enriching additional uranium, but they were not weaponizing that yet, and that (decision) was left with the supreme leader,” Warner said.

Apparently that's all wrong and US intel cannot be trusted, so instead we must trust the leader of another nation who is keen on getting the US involved in this conflict.

 

[Pyrite]

Spot on. What I would add is now we have the risk of a president who loves to project strength at the helm, which adds the nutter factor to the mix.

And who might envision himself as a "wartime leader"....

 

[Pyrite]

this is the general status on Iran's nuke development:

Trump and U.S. intelligence appear at odds over Iran's nuclear progress

U.S. intelligence stands by its opinion that Iran has a large stockpile of enriched uranium but isn't close to creating a weapon. Trump said Wednesday that a weapon is “a few weeks” away.

www.nbcnews.com

Democratic Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, told reporters he was perplexed by Trump's assertions as lawmakers have received a different picture from U.S. intelligence officials.

Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, told lawmakers in March that U.S. spy agencies assessed that Iran had not made a decision to build nuclear weapons but it had stockpiles of enriched uranium far beyond what is required for civilian purposes. The U.S. intelligence community’s view has not changed since her testimony, the source with knowledge of the matter said.

Warner said Wednesday that he received further confirmation of the March intelligence assessment “this week.”

On Tuesday, President Trump publicly dismissed Gabbard’s testimony, saying “I don’t care what she said.”

Warner said the administration needed to clarify if there was new intelligence on Iran’s nuclear work.
“So far, at least, the intelligence community has stood by its conclusion that Iran is not moving towards a nuclear weapon. They were enriching additional uranium, but they were not weaponizing that yet, and that (decision) was left with the supreme leader,” Warner said.

Post #362

"Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, told lawmakers in March that U.S. spy agencies assessed that Iran had not made a decision to build nuclear weapons but it had stockpiles of enriched uranium far beyond what is required for civilian purposes. The U.S. intelligence community’s view has not changed since her testimony, the source with knowledge of the matter said."

Yes, this is what I've been reading. I worry that we might end up pushing Iran into the position that its leadership comes to the conclusion it has no choice but to build nuclear weapons ASAP (whether or not the USA's pilots in American B-2 stealth bombers drop those 30,000 bunker-busting munitions).

No doubt about it, a nuclear-power Iran would be unsettling, to say the least. But I hope that cooler heads in the Trump Administration prevail. (Another thing: personally, I don't like any country's pulling our strings and maneuvering us into entering into what could easily become a war, whether it's Israel or anyone else.)

 

[Pyrite]

That's an interesting term that's been used to justify all sorts of things that are the opposite of what that means. The "common sense" question here is whether Israel's security is worth destabilizing the region by eliminating the current regime; devil you know and all that.

Yep. The destabilization of an Iran-hating Iraq (under Saddaam Hussein) into an Iraq that is Iran's ally could have taught us that we cannot always manipulate or control events; that unintended consequences are always lurking around the corner.

It's a bit optimistic to say Iran is a dying snake, since their military is still intact despite Israeli air dominance. For there to be the kind of change some are advocating, it would take a lot more than just air superiority, hence the question of what comes next in the minds of those pushing this approach.

Post #328

 

[Pyrite]

The nauseating lies coming from the anti-Trumps is to be expected. Trump has been clear. Iran cannot have nuclear weapons/capabilities. He is trying to save lives, but look at them spin the narrative into something evil.

Post #342

Trump can say whatever he wants. However, that doesn't mean

1) He's correct, and

2) The USA has the ability to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons

As for your claim trump is "trying to save lives": Doing Netanyahu's bidding would take many, many lives, dispossess and dislocate many, many people. AND, in the end, we might not have accomplished the stated goal.

 

[noonereal]

Trump is a nutcase.

This

 

[multivita-man]

Yep, this reminds me of two hungover construction workers showing up to the job site the next morning and expressing their feelings lol. Glad I watched - once and no more.

Don't ask me why I used that reference lol.

 

[Pyrite]

During his campaigns, (both), Trump repeatedly criticized U.S. involvement in "endless wars" and positioned himself as a peacemaker, vowing to avoid new conflicts. He gave Iran 60 days to come to their senses, and they rejected his offer. As a longtime ally, and under specific military acts granted to the POTUS to employ, Israel would be fully within their right to use what they need from the US's military to stop the nuclear threat. That's it.

If there is direct U.S. involvement, like an act of war or a declared war, and I've yet to see it, I will say Trump didn't keep his word to us.

Post #345

Yet here trump sounds much-too-eager to do Bibi's bidding and initiate a war with Iran. This is no "peacemaker" position. And it does initiate, not "avoid", "new conflicts".

As for Israel's "using what they need from the US military to stop Iran's supposed pending nuclear threat: that's not what is being proposed. You should understand that by now. Netanyahu and his Government want this:

American pilots in American B-2 stealth bombers to drop American 30,000-lb bombs on Iran.

You should also know by now that Israel does not have the capacity to "use what they need from the US's military", because the IDF does NOT have 30,000 lb bunker-busting bombs and, more importantly, it does NOT have the planes (B-2 stealth bombers) that are needed to deliver these munitions.

(And, no, giving or lending a couple of B-2 stealth bombers to Israel and allowing Israeli military pilots to attempt to fly them isn't a viable option.)

As for this portion of your Post #345:

If there is direct U.S. involvement, like an act of war or a declared war, and I've yet to see it, I will say Trump didn't keep his word to us.

I really don't believe that, in the event trump does order US pilots to fly US B-2 stealth bombers into and over Iran and drop US 30,000-lb bunker-busting munitions on the Iranian people you will "say Trump didn't keep his word to us".

 

[CaughtInThe]

Yep, this reminds me of two hungover construction workers showing up to the job site the next morning and expressing their feelings lol. Glad I watched - once and no more.

Don't ask me why I used that reference lol.

And by construction workers you mean prostitutes.

 

[Fearandloathing]

So this is nuts. Greater Tehran has a population of 15 million.


View attachment 67575097

Is it just me or does anyone else see this as completely irresponsible?

 

[multivita-man]

And by construction workers you mean prostitutes.

I think those worlds may have intersected lol.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Post #342

Trump can say whatever he wants. However, that doesn't mean

1) He's correct, and

2) The USA has the ability to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons

As for your claim trump is "trying to save lives": Doing Netanyahu's bidding would take many, many lives, dispossess and dislocate many, many people. AND, in the end, we might not have accomplished the stated goal.

Based on history to date the odds are extremely in favor that ANYTHING he says is total bullshit.

He doesn't read...anything.

 

[Pyrite]

You wrote "If Trump had any sense, he would have pumped the brakes on this but since he doesn't, now things have gone south."
How far south have we gone? Are we using our weapons offensively in Iran? Do we have boots on the ground there?
Your judgment is being clouded by your distaste for Trump. It's visible in every one of your posts.
You want him to lose and you want America to lose because of your concrete ideology against America.

Post #349


So, you will be fine and dandy with trump's ordering US pilots to fly US B-2 stealth bombs over Iran and to drop US bunker-busting 30,000 lb bombs on the people of that country?