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Trump’s Wrong. Not All War Veterans are ‘Sick’

Rogue Valley

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Trump’s Wrong. Not All War Veterans are ‘Sick’

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11/9/18
The recent shooting in Thousand Oaks, California, is a terrible tragedy for our entire country. And especially for the veteran community—and all who focus on mental health. The gunman, a U.S. Marine veteran, killed 12 people before taking his own life. When a tragic act of violence occurs, we need strong leadership to bring our nation together, educate the public, and strengthen our communities. We need light, not heat. Instead, here’s what President Trump said about it on Friday morning: “He is a very sick puppy.” And added “He was a war veteran… he saw some pretty bad things. A lot of people say he had the PTSD.” He finished with “People come back…they’re never the same.” He speculated that the shooter had PTSD and implied it was the reason he murdered a dozen people. Well, that sure doesn’t help the situation. Comments like this one from our Commander in Chief perpetuate a false and damaging narrative that veterans are broken and dangerous. Most people who suffer from PTSD, when able to get effective treatment, are able to live healthy, happy, meaningful lives. When veterans with mental health injuries do hurt someone, it’s usually themselves, not someone else. We lose 20 veterans and service-members to suicide every single day.

Most veterans, including those with mental health injuries, are not a danger to the public. Most often during emergencies like the one in Thousand Oaks, veterans are likely to be the EMT serving on the scene, the cop who responds, or the victim who gives his life to save another — like U.S. Marine veteran Dan Manrique, who ran into the bar during the shooting to protect others. Time and time again, veterans are the helpers. Despite the challenges, and despite the still severely limited resources, they’re soaring as a population, thanks to our core resilience and commitment of men and women who self-select to service. And thankfully, some folks like the founder of Craigslist are stepping up to send big reinforcements. But we’ll need much more. Veterans Day is this Sunday. After the craziness of the election on Tuesday, fewer people are paying attention to that than they are to Afghanistan. And that’s saying something. It’s more important now more than ever, in challenging times and a tumultuous political climate, that we debunk false narratives about veterans who struggle with mental health injuries, and that as a nation we effectively represent, support and serve those that served our country. And that has to start—most of all—with the White House. Our veterans deserve nothing less.

To compound matters, our VA has serious institutional deficiencies with no brighter days on the near horizon.
 

ecofarm

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“People come back…they’re never the same.”

Self serving. He's excusing himself for the 'bone spurs'.
 

chuckiechan

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Trump’s Wrong. Not All War Veterans are ‘Sick’

defense-large.jpg




To compound matters, our VA has serious institutional deficiencies with no brighter days on the near horizon.

Please.

“He is a very sick puppy.” And added “He was a war veteran… he saw some pretty bad things. A lot of people say he had the PTSD.” He finished with “People come back…they’re never the same.”

The guy who killed those people certainly was sick. Even the most PTDS affected veteran is unlikely to go out and kill innocents.
And being in the service does change you.
And being in a combat unit does change you in unexpected ways. Your world is never quite the same.

Lastly, VA care is Socialized medicine, and it's spotty. Some care centers are good, some are great, and some are lousy. Just like in civilian medicine.

I think your whole TDS premise here reeks of chicken ****.
 

joko104

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One of the most typical tactics against Trump by many Democrats and the MSM/press is to create a false claim, repeat it incessantly, and then rant about their lie.

President Trump never said "all war veterans are sick." He said combat affects a person. Any combat veteran who was actual in combat deny that? Every major event or experience in a person's life affects the person.
 

Oozlefinch

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Typical TDS.

He very clearly said "he", not "they". He was talking about an individual, not the entire combat veteran demographic.

Then people wonder why more and more I am ignoring what is being spun out of the media today. I am ****ing sick and tired of such crap.

Did the President say all veterans or combat veterans are sick? No he did not, he did not even say anything even close to that. I agree the individual who did that is sick, his contacts with LEO show that. I am also a combat vet, that does not mean I am sick, the President did not even imply that.

All I see here is another partisan attack, and people who do that should just shove it up their ass.

As for the VA, that has been broken for decades. Nothing short of firing 75% of them and rebuilding it from scratch will fix that.
 

Oozlefinch

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And as an FYI, most people with PTSD do not react in that way.

I have PTSD, and my wife has learned to recognize the signs. I withdraw, and seek refuge by getting away from whatever is causing this to happen. And for everybody I know that has similar issues, we react the same way.

My last major flare-up was about 3 years ago, at a Christmas Party. To many people I did not know, crowded into a house much to small for the 40 or so that were there. And their constant bursts into screaming and yelling (in celebration) caused me to withdraw more and more. After seeing me cringe for the 4th time in 5 minutes my wife took my hand and led me to the car. She then left me alone for an hour until I calmed down enough to return. And I made sure she saw me leave each time after until we left the party.

This is typical PTSD behavior. Crowds make us uncomfortable. But we do not get angry and get a gun to shoot them up, we try to isolate ourselves from them. The last thing on my mind during any attack is violence. The only thing going through my mind is "This is to damned much like XXX, I gotta get away from here."

We withdraw, we seek isolation, and for that time contact only with individuals who we can relate to until the episode passes. We do not lash out, we do not get violent. If anything, I am 10,000 times more likely to almost go catatonic then I am to ever get angry or lash out at somebody.

In most cases of PTSD, the self-cure is to avoid the issue, not to react against it with the violence that caused us to have the trauma in the first place.

I bet that after more digging is done, drugs and/or alcohol is going to be more of a factor than any "PTSD".

Sadly however, far to many people have bought into the "Violent PTSD Vietnam Vet" myth of the 1970's and 1980's, and that is still going on today. We have tens of thousands of PTSD vets (at least), as we had after WWII. But very few WWII vets (even those involved in some of the worst fighting of the war) went out and did such actions.

People, stop with the ****ing "PTSD killers" crap. 99.98% of you have no idea what you are talking about when you repeat this crap, and I am sick and tired of hearing about it. Like almost every other similar instance, I bet ultimately it turns out this guy had a great many other issues.

I am immediately struck by the Texas Church shooter. Also done by a vet, who was ****canned after beating his wife and threatening others (among other crimes). After that, he assaulted and raped at least 2 other women. Then animal abuse. Got a restraining order against him. Expressed on-line that he liked using dogs and cats for target practice, and loved mass murderers.

But he never deployed, and had no PTSD. He was just a seriously troubled person who happened to have been in the military at one time.
 

Skeptic Bob

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This is just another example of Trump’s poor grasp of language. I don’t think he was saying he thinks all vets are sick.
 

Oozlefinch

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This is just another example of Trump’s poor grasp of language. I don’t think he was saying he thinks all vets are sick.

He did not even say that.

“He is a very sick puppy. He was a war veteran… he saw some pretty bad things. A lot of people say he had the PTSD.”

He was very clearly stating he was sick as an individual.

I admit I do not like President Trump, never really have. But I also refuse to go twisting his words to try and advance any opinion I have about him towards others.

And this is typical of that nonsense. Taking something he said and then twisting it into something else completely different.
 

Kobie

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Its the downside to a human speaking, vs repeating poll tested canned responses.

Really? Because I don't recall ever reading poll-tested canned responses, and I've never said anything that ****ing stupid in front of a live mic.
 

JoanDavis

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Please.

“He is a very sick puppy.” And added “He was a war veteran… he saw some pretty bad things. A lot of people say he had the PTSD.” He finished with “People come back…they’re never the same.”

The guy who killed those people certainly was sick. Even the most PTDS affected veteran is unlikely to go out and kill innocents.
And being in the service does change you.
And being in a combat unit does change you in unexpected ways. Your world is never quite the same.

Lastly, VA care is Socialized medicine, and it's spotty. Some care centers are good, some are great, and some are lousy. Just like in civilian medicine.

I think your whole TDS premise here reeks of chicken ****.

He didn't have PTSD. trump has said many times that PTSD is fake. And we all know trump knows more about military service than all the men and women who served combined.
 

JoanDavis

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bONE sPURS DO NOT EXIST

He suffered such painful bone spurs that prevented him from serving his country FIVE times. But the bone spurs didn't affect his college football. He is a coward, a traitor and a disgrace.
 

JoanDavis

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One of the most typical tactics against Trump by many Democrats and the MSM/press is to create a false claim, repeat it incessantly, and then rant about their lie.

President Trump never said "all war veterans are sick." He said combat affects a person. Any combat veteran who was actual in combat deny that? Every major event or experience in a person's life affects the person.

Do you mean false claims like President Obama is a muslim and was born in Kenya? Funny how these false claims are OK with republikkkans but when a democrat tells the TRUTH about trump, they start screeching 'fake news'. Here's a FACT about trump that even the most rusted on trump supporter can't deny;- He has committed adultery with all 3 wives.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Really? Because I don't recall ever reading poll-tested canned responses, and I've never said anything that ****ing stupid in front of a live mic.
Really.

We have certainly seen plenty worse here on this site in your ostensibly "consciously" considered written posts... going on 50K of such.
 

Rogue Valley

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He suffered such painful bone spurs that prevented him from serving his country FIVE times. But the bone spurs didn't affect his college football. He is a coward, a traitor and a disgrace.

161114122545-04-young-donald-trump-super-169.jpg

Center -- Donnie "Bone Spurs" Trump



Donald Trump said:
“You know, if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it’s called the dating game. Dating is like being in Vietnam. You’re the equivalent of a soldier going over to Vietnam.”
 

DopeyJoeIsSenile

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Typical TDS.

He very clearly said "he", not "they". He was talking about an individual, not the entire combat veteran demographic.

Then people wonder why more and more I am ignoring what is being spun out of the media today. I am ****ing sick and tired of such crap.

Did the President say all veterans or combat veterans are sick? No he did not, he did not even say anything even close to that. I agree the individual who did that is sick, his contacts with LEO show that. I am also a combat vet, that does not mean I am sick, the President did not even imply that.

All I see here is another partisan attack, and people who do that should just shove it up their ass.

As for the VA, that has been broken for decades. Nothing short of firing 75% of them and rebuilding it from scratch will fix that.

A good start would be kicking out the Labor Union that is making it hard to fire incompetent VA personnel.
 

DopeyJoeIsSenile

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And as an FYI, most people with PTSD do not react in that way.

I have PTSD, and my wife has learned to recognize the signs. I withdraw, and seek refuge by getting away from whatever is causing this to happen. And for everybody I know that has similar issues, we react the same way.

My last major flare-up was about 3 years ago, at a Christmas Party. To many people I did not know, crowded into a house much to small for the 40 or so that were there. And their constant bursts into screaming and yelling (in celebration) caused me to withdraw more and more. After seeing me cringe for the 4th time in 5 minutes my wife took my hand and led me to the car. She then left me alone for an hour until I calmed down enough to return. And I made sure she saw me leave each time after until we left the party.

This is typical PTSD behavior. Crowds make us uncomfortable. But we do not get angry and get a gun to shoot them up, we try to isolate ourselves from them. The last thing on my mind during any attack is violence. The only thing going through my mind is "This is to damned much like XXX, I gotta get away from here."

We withdraw, we seek isolation, and for that time contact only with individuals who we can relate to until the episode passes. We do not lash out, we do not get violent. If anything, I am 10,000 times more likely to almost go catatonic then I am to ever get angry or lash out at somebody.

In most cases of PTSD, the self-cure is to avoid the issue, not to react against it with the violence that caused us to have the trauma in the first place.

I bet that after more digging is done, drugs and/or alcohol is going to be more of a factor than any "PTSD".

Sadly however, far to many people have bought into the "Violent PTSD Vietnam Vet" myth of the 1970's and 1980's, and that is still going on today. We have tens of thousands of PTSD vets (at least), as we had after WWII. But very few WWII vets (even those involved in some of the worst fighting of the war) went out and did such actions.

People, stop with the ****ing "PTSD killers" crap. 99.98% of you have no idea what you are talking about when you repeat this crap, and I am sick and tired of hearing about it. Like almost every other similar instance, I bet ultimately it turns out this guy had a great many other issues.

I am immediately struck by the Texas Church shooter. Also done by a vet, who was ****canned after beating his wife and threatening others (among other crimes). After that, he assaulted and raped at least 2 other women. Then animal abuse. Got a restraining order against him. Expressed on-line that he liked using dogs and cats for target practice, and loved mass murderers.

But he never deployed, and had no PTSD. He was just a seriously troubled person who happened to have been in the military at one time.

Too many get their education on PTSD from Hollywood. Movie producers tend to stretch the truth for dramatic purposes.
 
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