Trump’s “Christian” supporters do not follow a central message of Jesus

[Lees]

So, your assertion - so we are clear - is that the parables do not apply to Christians and how Christians act as members of the body of Christ on Earth in this day?

That’s what you are going with?

It all depends on the parable. As I said, the judgement of the Sheep and Goat nations is not a parable.

Lees

 

[BirdinHand]

It all depends on the parable. As I said, the judgement of the Sheep and Goat nations is not a parable.

Lees

So, the parable of the sheep and goats isn’t a parable?

It isn’t instruction for believers as to how to live their lives?

That’s your take?

 

[Lees]

So, the parable of the sheep and goats isn’t a parable?

Isn't that what I said. The judgement of the Sheep and Goat nations is not a parable.

Lees

 

[SuperDS77]

SuperDS77:

The trap for many like yourself is that you assume too much. Not once did I suggest that Christians are "somehow perfect representations of Christ" for the simple reason that Christ was a perfect human while all of Adam's offspring are not.

Certain members of Christendom are counterfeit Christians for failing to live up to what their Bible says.

Thanks for the response. First, I did qualify with a "perhaps".

The point was that if someone is "counterfeit" for "failing to live up to what their bible says" then there are no "real" Christians.

That would be dependent on what exactly is meant by " failing to live up to what their Bible says.". Based on your response it appears you are referring to "indulging in deliberate sin". Is that true?

However, the Bible gives clear instructions that sinful humans are capable of following. Christian followers of Jesus, for example, are not supposed to indulge themselves in deliberate sin. That has nothing to do with being a "perfect representative of Christ" and more to do with self-control.

Agreed.

Alter2Ego

 

[nota bene]

Well, any non-christian can also be wrong. And why would you trust one who believes the Bible is just a myth to explain to you what it says? And especially those who are antagonistic towards Christ and the Bible and the Church.

I don't understand your last statement. Live up to the Bible...how?

Lees

I think that Christians being aware of how they come across to non-believers is of critical importance--"Let your light so shine before men...." And if you're a jerk at work but sanctimonious and holier-than-all on Sunday, that's a problem. But I'm not interested at all in the ignorant, uninformed opinions of antagonists.

 

[nota bene]

View attachment 67573852

So, the parable of the sheep and goats isn’t a parable?

It isn’t instruction for believers as to how to live their lives?

That’s your take?

I went Googling and think he is referring to this (and I'd never heard of the "Sheep and Goat Judgment"): https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...where-does-the-goat-and-sheep-judgment-occur/

 

[Daisy]

The sheep and the goats most certainly is a parable of things to come...IOW it is a means of teaching a lesson and it concerns humans, not literal sheep and goats...

par·a·ble

noun
a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
Google

Soon, Jesus will judge every living person. Jesus described the time leading up to this judgment by giving his disciples a prophetic “sign” of his invisible presence and of “the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 24:3) This prophecy is recorded in Matthew chapters 24 and 25 and in the parallel accounts of Mark chapter 13 and Luke chapter 21.

In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus described the judgment of people who have the opportunity to respond to the good news and to support his anointed brothers. (Matt. 25:31-46) During the “great tribulation,” he will render this judgment right before Armageddon. (Matt. 24:21) Just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, Jesus will separate those who loyally support his anointed followers from those who do not.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2024566?q=sheep+and+goats+parable&p=sen

 

[Metanoia]

And, the Gospels are not written as an accounting of Jesus life. If that were the case they are woefully incomplete. Each of the 4 Gospels has a theme whereby the Holy Spirit uses certain events in Christ's life to present and build on that theme. And the theme of the Book of (Matthew) is Christ as 'King of the Jews'. Christ is coming as the King to offer that Kingdom promised to Israel in the Old Testament. Understand that though the Book of (Matthew) is in the New Testament, it is on Old Testament ground.

If the theme of Matthew is to portray Christ as ‘King of the Jews’ then one must acknowledge that it was a failed mission. It was the Jews that crucified their king and have held to that position ever since. Yet Christians hold Israel in highest regard and, in effect, condone the current and ongoing genocide. Are there not other religions that are less committed to violence ?

Even God realized this to His credit when John 3:16 informs us by saying that “God so loved the world”……which introduces love as the new defining characteristic of God rather than wrath and destruction…..

 

[Metanoia]

https://www.google.com/search?q=parable&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Soon, Jesus will judge every living person.

Technically and Biblically not exactly. 1 Corinthians 11:31…..”But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment.” This might be difficult for you and others who seem to reject any idea of God within us. I, of course, would suggest that if and when God is within us then judgment is ours….

 

[Daisy]

Discernment is necessary in order to understand scripture...

“If we would discern what we ourselves are, we would not be judged . . . that we may not become condemned.”—1 CORINTHIANS 11:31, 32.

THE last thing that a Christian wants is to be judged adversely by Jehovah. Displeasing “the Judge of all the earth” could lead to our ‘becoming condemned with the world’ and losing out on salvation. That is so whether we hope for life in heaven with Jesus or for endless life in an earthly paradise.—Genesis 18:25; 1 Corinthians 11:32.

In 1 Corinthians chapter 11, the apostle Paul addressed an area in which we might come into judgment. Our discerning what we ourselves are can help us to have God’s approval and not be judged.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1990125

 

[Metanoia]

Daisy…..glad to see that you concur……

 

[forn]

If the theme of Matthew is to portray Christ as ‘King of the Jews’ then one must acknowledge that it was a failed mission. It was the Jews that crucified their king and have held to that position ever since. Yet Christians hold Israel in highest regard and, in effect, condone the current and ongoing genocide. Are there not other religions that are less committed to violence ?

The reason Christians tend not to be critical of Israel is because the ending has not happened yet. God is not done dealing with Israel.
If there is a failure, it is a failure of Israel not to recognize their Messiah. You can say that about a lot of Gentiles as well. But as I said, the story isn't over.

 

[Revelation]

The reason Christians tend not to be critical of Israel is because the ending has not happened yet. God is not done dealing with Israel.
If there is a failure, it is a failure of Israel not to recognize their Messiah. You can say that about a lot of Gentiles as well. But as I said, the story isn't over.

amen.

we still have world war, the Tribulation and Armageddon still on the Schedule.

this is Bible Prophecy in motion.

we have Front Row seats for everything today. hello LA, and pray for them tooooo.


.

 

[Logician Man]

amen.

we still have world war, the Tribulation and Armageddon still on the Schedule.

this is Bible Prophecy in motion.

we have Front Row seats for everything today. hello LA, and pray for them tooooo.


.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Well, any non-christian can also be wrong. And why would you trust one who believes the Bible is just a myth to explain to you what it says? And especially those who are antagonistic towards Christ and the Bible and the Church.

I don't understand your last statement. Live up to the Bible...how?

Lees

Lees:

It has less to do with trusting an atheist and more to do with the verses of scriptures watsup quoted. Anyone reading those same verses can see that those instructions are not being lived up to by many people claiming to be Christian followers of Jesus Christ. Had watsup not quoted those verses, it would have been easy for me to dismiss what he/she is saying.

I don't understand your last statement. Live up to the Bible...how?

Lees

Following Bible instructions is what that refers to. I gave an example of members of Christendom failing to do so at Post 487. The weblink is directly below.

Post in thread 'Trump’s “Christian” supporters do not follow a central message of Jesus'

Jun 9, 2025

Per AI:

Jesus Christ, as depicted in the Bible, is often described as a figure of profound compassion, demonstrating empathy and concern for the suffering of others. His actions and teachings highlight his willingness to alleviate pain, offer comfort, and provide support, making compassion a core element of his ministry.

These certainly are not the values of the Trump cult Christians, who offer not a peep of criticism as Trump and the Republicans remove needed benefits from “the least of these” in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy.

watsup:

Your emphasis on...

• Alter2Ego

Alter2Ego

 

[Metanoia]

The reason Christians tend not to be critical of Israel is because the ending has not happened yet. God is not done dealing with Israel.
If there is a failure, it is a failure of Israel not to recognize their Messiah. You can say that about a lot of Gentiles as well. But as I said, the story isn't over.

Messiah in the OT is quite different from the NT……the OT messiah was seen as a king or political ruler without any aspect of divinity….the NT in the KJV never uses ‘messiah’ using ‘messias’ instead. Scholars cite 39 references to messiah in the OT….although the word itself…messiahs…is only used twice. The NT uses messias twice and instead speaks of Christ divinity implied.

The very interesting thing to me is the genealogy in Matthew of Jesus. This precise genealogy is what we call tracing and establishing DNA. Matthew lists 3 generations of 14 each with Jesus being number 42……here is the interesting thing: Joseph is number 40…..there is no number 41 listed. Something is missing in the DNA chain…..is number 41 one that cannot be named ? Is this where divinity becomes part of the DNA of Jesus ? Just something to contemplate….

 

[Lees]

If the theme of Matthew is to portray Christ as ‘King of the Jews’ then one must acknowledge that it was a failed mission. It was the Jews that crucified their king and have held to that position ever since. Yet Christians hold Israel in highest regard and, in effect, condone the current and ongoing genocide. Are there not other religions that are less committed to violence ?

Even God realized this to His credit when John 3:16 informs us by saying that “God so loved the world”……which introduces love as the new defining characteristic of God rather than wrath and destruction…..

Oh, contraire. That mission is on-going. And the rejection and death and resurrection of Christ was very much a part of the mission. Yes, the Jews as a people have held to their rejection of Christ as their King, but that is only temporary. (Rom. 11:25) "...blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." They are at present under a judicial blindness from God, and God will remove at His timing.

Well, if you want to find a religion which does not allow violence, go ahead. Violence is very much part of life right now, until Christ returns and rules over the world with a rod of iron. But, that will be rule of peace that the heathen won't like either. (Psalm 2:8-9)

The love of God was not new. The love of God is found throughout the Old Testament. Just as His wrath and destruction. The flood of Noah was a display of God's love. How? Because He protected His people from overwhelming wickedness of the world.

And God's love for the world caused Him to give His Son to be sacrificed for the sins of the world. But, understand, that doesn't mean God loves everyone in the world. The world order is what is described here. And that world order was part of the original plan of God. If any think the word 'world' in (John 3:16) means every person then compare to (1 John 2:15). "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. "

God is love, and truth, and wrath, and destruction. This idea of God as some old granny in heaven just sobbing away because people are such sinners and he just wants everyone to know how he loves all of them any way, is a lie straight out of hell.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Lees:

It has less to do with trusting an atheist and more to do with the verses of scriptures watsup quoted. Anyone reading those same verses can see that those instructions are not being lived up to by many people claiming to be Christian followers of Jesus Christ. Had watsup not quoted those verses, it would have been easy for me to dismiss what he/she is saying.



Following Bible instructions is what that refers to. I gave an example of members of Christendom failing to do so at Post 487. The weblink is directly below.

Post in thread 'Trump’s “Christian” supporters do not follow a central message of Jesus'

Jun 9, 2025

Per AI:

Jesus Christ, as depicted in the Bible, is often described as a figure of profound compassion, demonstrating empathy and concern for the suffering of others. His actions and teachings highlight his willingness to alleviate pain, offer comfort, and provide support, making compassion a core element of his ministry.

These certainly are not the values of the Trump cult Christians, who offer not a peep of criticism as Trump and the Republicans remove needed benefits from “the least of these” in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy.

watsup:

Your emphasis on...

• Alter2Ego

Alter2Ego

I checked out your post #(487).

Do you vote? Do you pay your taxes?

Lees

 

[Logician Man]

Oh, contraire. That mission is on-going. And the rejection and death and resurrection of Christ was very much a part of the mission. Yes, the Jews as a people have held to their rejection of Christ as their King, but that is only temporary. (Rom. 11:25) "...blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." They are at present under a judicial blindness from God, and God will remove at His timing.

Well, if you want to find a religion which does not allow violence, go ahead. Violence is very much part of life right now, until Christ returns and rules over the world with a rod of iron. But, that will be rule of peace that the heathen won't like either. (Psalm 2:8-9)

The love of God was not new. The love of God is found throughout the Old Testament. Just as His wrath and destruction. The flood of Noah was a display of God's love. How? Because He protected His people from overwhelming wickedness of the world.

And God's love for the world caused Him to give His Son to be sacrificed for the sins of the world. But, understand, that doesn't mean God loves everyone in the world. The world order is what is described here. And that world order was part of the original plan of God. If any think the word 'world' in (John 3:16) means every person then compare to (1 John 2:15). "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. "

God is love, and truth, and wrath, and destruction. This idea of God as some old granny in heaven just sobbing away because people are such sinners and he just wants everyone to know how he loves all of them any way, is a lie straight out of hell.

Lees

The bolded above reminds me of this old tune.

 

[poppopfox]

The bolded above reminds me of this old tune.

Classic. Thanks for the throwback!

 

[Alter2Ego]

I checked out your post #(487).

Do you vote? Do you pay your taxes?

Lees

Lees:

Of course I pay taxes. Christians are instructed to do so, based on the following scriptures quoted below.

Mark 12:14​

On arriving, these said to him: “Teacher, we know you are truthful and you do not seek anyone’s favor, for you do not look at the outward appearance of people, but you teach the way of God in line with truth. Is it lawful to pay head tax to Caesar or not?

Mark 12:15​

Should we pay, or should we not pay?” Detecting their hypocrisy, he said to them: “Why do you put me to the test? Bring me a de·narʹi·us to look at.”

Mark 12:16​

They brought one, and he said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said to him: “Caesar’s.”

Mark 12:17​

Jesus then said: “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” And they were amazed at him.


As for voting, I believe I made my position clear on that at Post 487.


Alter2Ego

 

[Metanoia]

The love of God was not new. The love of God is found throughout the Old Testament. Just as His wrath and destruction. The flood of Noah was a display of God's love. How? Because He protected His people from overwhelming wickedness of the world.

And God's love for the world caused Him to give His Son to be sacrificed for the sins of the world. But, understand, that doesn't mean God loves everyone in the world. The world order is what is described here. And that world order was part of the original plan of God. If any think the word 'world' in (John 3:16) means every person then compare to (1 John 2:15). "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. "

God is love, and truth, and wrath, and destruction.

OT…….the love of God was restricted to his chosen people……..that leaves everyone else…..we’re not these other people part of God’s creation ? To say otherwise is to imply the existence of another creator God…..no one can say these other people were bad and his chosen people were good…..they sinned on a regular basis….otherwise why the 10 Commandments, etc ?

It is laughable to hear your literal understanding of ‘world’……world especially refers to the material world that operates on the love of money, love of self, love of gratification at the expense of others…..basically all being programs of the ego…the original sin being the separation from God.

The two definitions of God that I believe are ‘God is love’ and ‘God is Spirit’…….provide us the verses that say ‘God is wrath’ and ‘God is destruction’…….he might use both of those powers but hard to believe that He would accept either as his identity…..perhaps those negative identities are an evangelical tool for bringing people to Christ….??

 

[Lees]

Lees:

Of course I pay taxes. Christians are instructed to do so, based on the following scriptures quoted below.

Mark 12:14​

On arriving, these said to him: “Teacher, we know you are truthful and you do not seek anyone’s favor, for you do not look at the outward appearance of people, but you teach the way of God in line with truth. Is it lawful to pay head tax to Caesar or not?

Mark 12:15​

Should we pay, or should we not pay?” Detecting their hypocrisy, he said to them: “Why do you put me to the test? Bring me a de·narʹi·us to look at.”

Mark 12:16​

They brought one, and he said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said to him: “Caesar’s.”

Mark 12:17​

Jesus then said: “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” And they were amazed at him.


As for voting, I believe I made my position clear on that at Post 487.


Alter2Ego

I guess you're part of the world then...arn't you? Yet you claim we Chrsitians are not to be part of the world. What now?

Lees

 

[Daisy]

I guess you're part of the world then...arn't you? Yet you claim we Chrsitians are not to be part of the world. What now?

Lees

lol...Jesus said it...do you obey him?

 

[Lees]

lol...Jesus said it...do you obey him?

What's so funny...your inability to observe what was asked?

Go back and read my discussion with @Alter2Ego, then get back with me.

Lees