True Gun Safety in TN (1 Viewer)

[JMB1911A1]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying for a party that thought that was invasive...is now okay with teachers talking to kids about gun safety. What do you think is going to happen when a teacher hears a kid talking about the guns their family owns and they're doing something illegal with them? Teachers are mandatory reporters. They have to report on something that could endanger the life of a child if they know about it.

Not sure why the kids would be taking about guns. And if a teacher reports illegal activities, good on them. Hope they do when kids talk about dealing drugs, etc.

Or more likely it won't happen. Mass shootings are common in the US but compared to most crimes incredibly rare and overhyped.

But gun control proponents tell us that school shooting happen all the time. Are they lying?

The long, shameful list of gunfire on school grounds in America.

This list keeps growing. How many more before our leaders act?

everytownresearch.org

Have you ever worked in education? Teachers are incredibly overworked already. To say nothing of the teacher shortage that's going on right now.

So? Can they not multitask? Guess you have never fired a gun. After the initial training, a couple of hours per a month on the weekend is more than sufficient for proficiency. Heck, cops only shoot every six months.

To be a teacher at least in NY state teachers are strongly encouraged to have a masters degree. That's expensive and highly valued. Basically they're incredibly talented because they're so valuable. Now give someone worth a lot of money a gun and tell them to shoot someone who is significantly less valuable because they don't have the same training. The teacher dies. All of that money gets wasted and could have gone to something else instead. Someone who would have returned on the value of that education. This bill and others like it are telling highly valuable assets to go toe to toe against someone who can waste that asset. It's objectively bad policy.

No. This bill gives that highly valuable asset the tools to protect their highly valuable ass and that of their students. We are not asking the teachers to go hunting through the halls for the active shooter. But if you are hunkered down in your classroom and the shooter bursts in, don't you want the chance for an effective defense. Ever hear of run, hide, fight? A thrown stapler maybe all you have to fight with. I would prefer my 9mm.

Do you think the teachers in that Uvalde classroom wished they had a gun when the shooter entered their classroom?

See above. Do you really think teachers are going to use guns to defend themselves or do you think they're going to end up breaking trust with the students because they have a firearm?

How would the students know the teacher has a concealed firearm. Concealed means concealed. The teachers authorized to carry shouldn't be announcing it to the world.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Lol.

Yeah, two words i included the part that fit this subject.

but you didnt recognize it?

Nope. It was over 7 months ago. Sounds like you are either stalking me or searched for every post I ever made about teachers to find that "gotcha" moment. Pathetic either way.

You don't trust them to teach kids to read and say they are just pushing a gender change agenda on kids, but you want them to have guns.?

You arent credible on this because yiu have no respect for teachers to begin with

Maybe I have evolved on the issue. You seem pretty narrow minded to hold me to one post made 7 months ago.

 

[soap box]

What is a requirement of Texas law? Does it require that your position that teachers can't generally be trusted with firearms be as immutable as you say?


You trusted him during a crisis, but you haven't told me how he performed.

Did he ever "go postal" and start shooting people, or accidentally discharge his firearm or something like that?

We didn't have a crisis and I don't remember posting that we did.

I think it is a requirement for all public schools to have a guard on duty during school hours. I don't know if the law requires the guard to be armed, but I remember he was. I don't know if teachers are allowed to carry in a school, I never heard that any teacher has had a firearm at school.

I'll be glad to answer anything, but if don't have other questions, we were comparing an armed guard to teachers carrying at schools. I don't think the TN law is appropriate nor safe. I think the armed guard is a reasonable choice to deter incidents.

 

[JMB1911A1]

We didn't have a crisis and I don't remember posting that we did.

I think it is a requirement for all public schools to have a guard on duty during school hours. I don't know if the law requires the guard to be armed, but I remember he was. I don't know if teachers are allowed to carry in a school, I never heard that any teacher has had a firearm at school.

I'll be glad to answer anything, but if don't have other questions, we were comparing an armed guard to teachers carrying at schools. I don't think the TN law is appropriate nor safe. I think the armed guard is a reasonable choice to deter incidents.

The trouble with armed guards is that they can omay or may not be effective. You could have someone like Deputy Blaine Gaskill at Great Mills High School in MD who dropped the shooter after he had only shot one girl. Or, you could have someone like Scot Peterson, the "coward of Broward" who stood outside the door while students were being slaughtered at Marjorie Stonemason Douglas HS.

Teen girl shot at Maryland school "brain dead," life support to end, mother says

Melissa Willey said Thursday her daughter, 16-year-old Jaelynn Willey has "no life left in her" following a shooting at Great Mills High School

www.cbsnews.com

The 'Coward of Broward' Stood by While Children Were Shot, Now He Faces 96 Years in Prison

The Broward County deputy that hid in safety while students were massacred in the Parkland school shooting will now face justice for his fatal inaction.

www.westernjournal.com

At least giving teachers an option can add one final line of defense for that classroom.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

You didn't read the three citations I provided.
Do that first, then get back to me if you want me if yiu want to talk about it.

Why ?
So you can hang on the falsehood that correlation proves causation?

 

[NolanVoyd]

Nope. It was over 7 months ago. Sounds like you are either stalking me or searched for every post I ever made about teachers to find that "gotcha" moment. Pathetic either way.

I was just curious what you've said about teachers in other contexts

So I did a search.

Maybe I have evolved on the issue.

I hope so. You iwe teachers an apology.

You seem pretty narrow minded to hold me to one post made 7 months ago.

I'm just sick of the constant hypocrisy.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Why do you want to put school children at e en greater risk then they already are?

Look at you, avoiding the question.
Try again.

What is a mindless agenda?

The anti-gun agenda, in all of its forms.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Why ?

Funny question.

case clised.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Not sure why the kids would be taking about guns. And if a teacher reports illegal activities, good on them. Hope they do when kids talk about dealing drugs, etc.

Because a kid's going to say things about where mommy and daddy keeps guns. Have you ever worked with kids before? They love sharing. It makes them think that adults like them more.

But gun control proponents tell us that school shooting happen all the time. Are they lying?

The long, shameful list of gunfire on school grounds in America.

This list keeps growing. How many more before our leaders act?

everytownresearch.org

No. They're not. But that's because the US just has way more gun related crimes than any other OECD country. Basically all of the really small crimes outnumber the really bad ones.

So? Can they not multitask? Guess you have never fired a gun. After the initial training, a couple of hours per a month on the weekend is more than sufficient for proficiency. Heck, cops only shoot every six months.

The last time I fired a gun I had to travel home without any ibuprofen and my shoulder really hurt. So no I don't fire guns. Also I'm a buddhist so I can't really do anything with them.

No. This bill gives that highly valuable asset the tools to protect their highly valuable ass and that of their students. We are not asking the teachers to go hunting through the halls for the active shooter. But if you are hunkered down in your classroom and the shooter bursts in, don't you want the chance for an effective defense. Ever hear of run, hide, fight? A thrown stapler maybe all you have to fight with. I would prefer my 9mm.

This is a poor post. It's completely detached from how things would go down in an emergency lockdown situation.
1. Teachers and students all go to the corner together away from the door and window. In other words no line of sight to where the shooter would be coming in from.
2. Even if there was line of sight it ignores the fact there's going to be upwards of 20+ people in one corner of the room. They're going to start moving as soon as the door breaks down. In other words. No clear line of sight.
3. The teacher has to get the gun. Depending on where that gun is stored they have to break lockdown procedures to get it. They have to go to the cabinet or desk, get the gun, load it, then make sure that there is enough room to fire the gun. All the while this is taking up precious time and energy that a simple pair of scissors would be more cost effective and better to use. At least the scissors can be used outside of the class.

Do you think the teachers in that Uvalde classroom wished they had a gun when the shooter entered their classroom?

There were guns. In the hands of police officers. Who didn't go into the classroom.

How would the students know the teacher has a concealed firearm. Concealed means concealed. The teachers authorized to carry shouldn't be announcing it to the world.

When there's a fight that breaks out and the teacher decides to pull out the gun because they don't feel safe in the classroom. Or a student goes into a teacher's desk looking for food. Or when a teacher is talking about guns and a kid asks the teacher if they have a gun and see through the teacher's poker face.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Funny question.
case clised.

I read each of your 'stories' to the point where they rest on the proposition that proves causation
Case closed.

 

[soap box]

The trouble with armed guards is that they can omay or may not be effective. You could have someone like Deputy Blaine Gaskill at Great Mills High School in MD who dropped the shooter after he had only shot one girl. Or, you could have someone like Scot Peterson, the "coward of Broward" who stood outside the door while students were being slaughtered at Marjorie Stonemason Douglas HS.

Teen girl shot at Maryland school "brain dead," life support to end, mother says

Melissa Willey said Thursday her daughter, 16-year-old Jaelynn Willey has "no life left in her" following a shooting at Great Mills High School

www.cbsnews.com

The 'Coward of Broward' Stood by While Children Were Shot, Now He Faces 96 Years in Prison

The Broward County deputy that hid in safety while students were massacred in the Parkland school shooting will now face justice for his fatal inaction.

www.westernjournal.com

At least giving teachers an option can add one final line of defense for that classroom.

If they can find a teacher that wants to. I haven't met one , but I don't doubt some do.

You go with it. I will never think the TN law is safe or constructive . I think a more appropriate answer is either a guard or locked door policy, or both as my school last year did.

Now , Im moving on and you can have the last word.

 

[NolanVoyd]

The trouble with armed guards is that they can omay or may not be effective. You could have someone like Deputy Blaine Gaskill at Great Mills High School in MD who dropped the shooter after he had only shot one girl. Or, you could have someone like Scot Peterson, the "coward of Broward" who stood outside the door while students were being slaughtered at Marjorie Stonemason Douglas HS.

Teen girl shot at Maryland school "brain dead," life support to end, mother says

Melissa Willey said Thursday her daughter, 16-year-old Jaelynn Willey has "no life left in her" following a shooting at Great Mills High School

www.cbsnews.com

The 'Coward of Broward' Stood by While Children Were Shot, Now He Faces 96 Years in Prison

The Broward County deputy that hid in safety while students were massacred in the Parkland school shooting will now face justice for his fatal inaction.

www.westernjournal.com

At least giving teachers an option can add one final line of defense for that classroom.

Schools already have enough issues with liability without arming teachers.

Imagine the lawsuits if an armed teacher accidently discharges a firearm in class and injurs a student. Or discharges one intentionally, trying to be a hero, and kills somone in the background.

 

[NolanVoyd]

I read each of your 'stories' to the point where they rest on the proposition that proves causation
Case closed.

No

They don't.

You keep proving you didn't read them.

It would have been so easier just to read them.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

This is a poor post. It's completely detached from how things would go down in an emergency lockdown situation.
1. Teachers and students all go to the corner together away from the door and window. In other words no line of sight to where the shooter would be coming in from.
2. Even if there was line of sight it ignores the fact there's going to be upwards of 20+ people in one corner of the room. They're going to start moving as soon as the door breaks down. In other words. No clear line of sight.
3. The teacher has to get the gun. Depending on where that gun is stored they have to break lockdown procedures to get it. They have to go to the cabinet or desk, get the gun, load it, then make sure that there is enough room to fire the gun. All the while this is taking up precious time and energy that a simple pair of scissors would be more cost effective and better to use. At least the scissors can be used outside of the class.

Wait.
In Uvalde TX, three COMPANIES of heavily armed police officers were held at bay by one kid with an AR15.
You believe the best available course of action is for a teacher to engage him.... with a pair of scissors?

 

[Mungo Jerry]

No

They don't.

You.

Are.

Lying..

They found that a gun in the home was associated with a nearly threefold increase in the odds
Correlation

Harvard researchers concluded that available evidence supports the hypothesis that greater numbers of guns corresponds to higher rates of homicide.
Correlation.

A 2020 study concluded that the law’s repeal was associated with a 47 percent increase in gun homicide rates and a 23 percent increase in gun suicide rates.8
Correlation

Why do you believe correlation proves causation?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Wait.
In Uvalde TX, three COMPANIES of heavily armed police officers were held at bay by one kid with an AR15.
You believe the best available course of action is for a teacher to engage him.... with a pair of scissors?

A kid with an AR15 didn't hold the police at bay. What held the police at bay was uncertainty about what tactics to use. There wasn't clear leadership or communication. Poor planning caused the massacre. Not a lack of firearms.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

A kid with an AR15 didn't hold the police at bay. What held the police at bay was uncertainty about what tactics to use.

Against a kid with an AR15.
Because he had an AR15.

You believe the best available course of action is for a teacher to engage him.... with a pair of scissors?

 

[JMB1911A1]

Because a kid's going to say things about where mommy and daddy keeps guns. Have you ever worked with kids before? They love sharing. It makes them think that adults like them more.

OK.

No. They're not. But that's because the US just has way more gun related crimes than any other OECD country. Basically all of the really small crimes outnumber the really bad ones.

Ah, so the gun control industry is lying. Thank you.

The last time I fired a gun I had to travel home without any ibuprofen and my shoulder really hurt. So no I don't fire guns. Also I'm a buddhist so I can't really do anything with them.

Sounds like you shot a big bore rifle or a shotgun with full power loads. Handguns are a lot different. Just went to the range today and my wife was having a great time with her Shield EZ 380 (handgun). She followed that up with hitting steel targets at 600 yds with a 5.56mm AR-15. No problems noted.

This is a poor post. It's completely detached from how things would go down in an emergency lockdown situation.
1. Teachers and students all go to the corner together away from the door and window. In other words no line of sight to where the shooter would be coming in from.

So, teacher moves the students into a corner and tales position in front of them.

2. Even if there was line of sight it ignores the fact there's going to be upwards of 20+ people in one corner of the room. They're going to start moving as soon as the door breaks down. In other words. No clear line of sight.

Not if they are taught correctly.

3. The teacher has to get the gun. Depending on where that gun is stored they have to break lockdown procedures to get it. They have to go to the cabinet or desk, get the gun, load it, then make sure that there is enough room to fire the gun. All the while this is taking up precious time and energy that a simple pair of scissors would be more cost effective and better to use. At least the scissors can be used outside of the class.

Why would the gun be locked up unloaded? That is stupid. We are talking about allowing properly trained and screened educators to carry a concealed handgun. That handgun will be on their person and should be loaded. An unloaded gun is just a paperweight. When I carry, it is always in Condition 1. Cocked and locked. Loaded with one in chamber and safety on.

There were guns. In the hands of police officers. Who didn't go into the classroom.

After the shooter had entered the classroom. If one of the two teachers in the classroom had been armed, the outcome could have been a lot better. Doubt it would have been much worse.

When there's a fight that breaks out and the teacher decides to pull out the gun because they don't feel safe in the classroom.

That is not a reason to pull a gun. Which is why we screen the teachers.

Or a student goes into a teacher's desk looking for food.

Why would the gun be in the desk? It should;d always be on the person responsible for it. That is why it is called CONCEALED CARRY.

Or when a teacher is talking about guns and a kid asks the teacher if they have a gun and see through the teacher's poker face.

You can "what if" it to death. The point is that it is better to give teachers the option than deny them an effective way to fight back.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Against a kid with an AR15.
Because he had an AR15.

You believe the best available course of action is for a teacher to engage him.... with a pair of scissors?

No. I don't. I think the best course of action is to secure the room and hide. Then if necessary fight. There's a reason why it's flee, hide, then fight.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

No. I don't. I think the best course of action is to secure the room and hide. Then if necessary fight. There's a reason why it's flee, hide, then fight.

You said:
....a simple pair of scissors would be more cost effective and better to use.

Better to use against someone with a firearm than another than a firearm.

 

[NolanVoyd]

You.

Are.

Lying..

They found that a gun in the home was associated with a nearly threefold increase in the odds
Correlation

Harvard researchers concluded that available evidence supports the hypothesis that greater numbers of guns corresponds to higher rates of homicide.
Correlation.

A 2020 study concluded that the law’s repeal was associated with a 47 percent increase in gun homicide rates and a 23 percent increase in gun suicide rates.8
Correlation

Why do you believe correlation proves causation?

You said.

"I read each of your 'stories' to the point where they rest on the proposition that proves causation"

 

[JMB1911A1]

No. I don't. I think the best course of action is to secure the room and hide. Then if necessary fight. There's a reason why it's flee, hide, then fight.

And if you have to fight, what are you going to fight with? Scissors are at a serious range disadvantage to an AR-15. I prefer my Springfield Range Officer Compact (1911) in 9mm loaded with 147 grain Federal Hydrashock.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Ah, so the gun control industry is lying. Thank you.

Of course it is.

Sounds like you shot a big bore rifle or a shotgun with full power loads

She probably read Piers Morgan's description of firing an AR15 and the PTSD he suffered afterwards.

Why would the gun be locked up unloaded? That is stupid.

Correct. The gun goes on the teacher's person.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

You said.
"I read each of your 'stories' to the point where they rest on the proposition that proves causation"

And I quoted you the lines in each.

 

[NolanVoyd]

And I quoted you the lines in each.

Explain that sentence.

Was I supposed to know what it meant?