True Gun Safety in TN (1 Viewer)

[Scatty Kitty]

OK.

Now let's assume that having access to an unlocked firearm is endangering the life of a minor. Which it is. What's going to happen is CPS is going to make a lot of house visits because a kid telling a teacher they have access to firearms without the supervision of a parent.

Ah, so the gun control industry is lying. Thank you.

It's like you took a shot and missed the target entirely.

Sounds like you shot a big bore rifle or a shotgun with full power loads. Handguns are a lot different. Just went to the range today and my wife was having a great time with her Shield EZ 380 (handgun). She followed that up with hitting steel targets at 600 yds with a 5.56mm AR-15. No problems noted.

Couldn't tell you. I was a kid at the time. Never fire another gun.

So, teacher moves the students into a corner and tales position in front of them.

Not if they are taught correctly.

Why would the gun be locked up unloaded? That is stupid. We are talking about allowing properly trained and screened educators to carry a concealed handgun. That handgun will be on their person and should be loaded. An unloaded gun is just a paperweight. When I carry, it is always in Condition 1. Cocked and locked. Loaded with one in chamber and safety on.

After the shooter had entered the classroom. If one of the two teachers in the classroom had been armed, the outcome could have been a lot better. Doubt it would have been much worse.

That is not a reason to pull a gun. Which is why we screen the teachers.

I'm sorry but I can't take this seriously, this is ridiculous on its face. Give me a serious argument. You are clearly a gun nerd. You know a lot about guns and how to use them. But this is something that unless you teach you will almost never realize. Not everyone is a nerd like you. You have to meet the people who are not gun nerds at their level. In other words you need to make a human argument. You're effectively saying "if only everyone is like me then we wouldn't have these problems". You're making scenarios that are perfect. I mean listen to your argument. The teacher is going to step in front of the kids in the corner. What's going to happen if the teacher forgets the safety is on in the moment and the gunman sees a gun? They're going to shoot into the crowd of children!

That's not what you're talking about, but it's clearly devoid from reality. Make an argument that's rooted in reality.

Why would the gun be in the desk? It should;d always be on the person responsible for it. That is why it is called CONCEALED CARRY.

Weren't you just asking how people are going to know if a teacher has a firearm.

You can "what if" it to death. The point is that it is better to give teachers the option than deny them an effective way to fight back.

A firearm in a classroom is not effective at fighting back. Want to know what is effective? Making sure students have full bellies when they go into a classroom. Stops a lot of classroom disruptions before they boil over into a path that leads to mass shootings.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

You said:
....a simple pair of scissors would be more cost effective and better to use.

Better to use against someone with a firearm than another than a firearm.

Yeah. Because they are in a classroom. Guns aren't the solution to every problem. Especially when it comes to every security problem. Now if you're asking what the best action plan is to prevent school shootings the answer is more obvious. Food, counselors, taking on racism, promoting LGBT issues, giving kids options, reducing state tests, giving kids more recess time and free time etc. Not one solution requires firearms.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Now let's assume that having access to an unlocked firearm is endangering the life of a minor. Which it is. What's going to happen is CPS is going to make a lot of house visits because a kid telling a teacher they have access to firearms without the supervision of a parent.

Really has nothing to do with armed teachers but OK.

It's like you took a shot and missed the target entirely.

Couldn't tell you. I was a kid at the time. Never fire another gun.

You should try shooting as an adult. Can be very empowering for females.

I'm sorry but I can't take this seriously, this is ridiculous on its face. Give me a serious argument. You are clearly a gun nerd. You know a lot about guns and how to use them. But this is something that unless you teach you will almost never realize. Not everyone is a nerd like you. You have to meet the people who are not gun nerds at their level. In other words you need to make a human argument. You're effectively saying "if only everyone is like me then we wouldn't have these problems". You're making scenarios that are perfect. I mean listen to your argument. The teacher is going to step in front of the kids in the corner.

Good.

What's going to happen if the teacher forgets the safety is on in the moment

Training helps.

and the gunman sees a gun? They're going to shoot into the crowd of children!

Because the gunman wasn't going to shoot into the kids anyway? Seriously. You are arguing that an armed teacher is going to cause a madman to shoot kids because he/she wasn't planning on doing it?

That's not what you're talking about, but it's clearly devoid from reality. Make an argument that's rooted in reality.

Planning for an event is reality.

Weren't you just asking how people are going to know if a teacher has a firearm.

Concealed carry. I carry every day I can and you would never know I was carrying.

A firearm in a classroom is not effective at fighting back. Want to know what is effective? Making sure students have full bellies when they go into a classroom. Stops a lot of classroom disruptions before they boil over into a path that leads to mass shootings.

Full bellies will stop 5.56x45 rounds??? Seriously?

Stopping classroom disruptions is good. But don't you want to be prepared in case the worst case happens? Do you have a fire extinguisher? Car insurance?

 

[JMB1911A1]

Yeah. Because they are in a classroom. Guns aren't the solution to every problem. Especially when it comes to every security problem. Now if you're asking what the best action plan is to prevent school shootings the answer is more obvious. Food, counselors, taking on racism, promoting LGBT issues, giving kids options, reducing state tests, giving kids more recess time and free time etc. Not one solution requires firearms.

Seriously? How about the Covenant School shooting? The shooter was 28 years old and had attend the school when she was 10. Guess they just needed to give her less state tests.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Explain that sentence.

I said:
I read each of your 'stories' to the point where they rest on the proposition that proves causation"

I then quoted the sentence in each of your stores where they rest on the proposition that correlation proves causation.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Yeah. Because they are in a classroom. Guns aren't the solution to every problem.

The problem here is someone shooting at you and your students with a gun.
What better solution than shooting back?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Really has nothing to do with armed teachers but OK.

Bill one, talk about gun safety. Refer to the OP.

Well at least you hit one of the dead bodies from gun violence. Tell me any other developed nation where the leading cause of death for children is guns. I want to know which one it is.

You should try shooting as an adult. Can be very empowering for females.

I'm a Buddhist. I've already told you that.

Good.

Glad to know the human factor has been disregarded in favor of armchair gun logic.

Training helps.

How much training? Because on top of keeping their teaching licenses, working second jobs, their families, there's not a lot of room for training.

Because the gunman wasn't going to shoot into the kids anyway? Seriously. You are arguing that an armed teacher is going to cause a madman to shoot kids because he/she wasn't planning on doing it?

Yeah. Because there's a difference when there is a firearm and when there isn't one. Once that gunman enters the room, there is no clear line of sight because the kids are going to be screaming and fleeing however they can. In my room if someone tried to enter the room, I know for a fact there would never have been a clear line of sight because of where the doors were. But with scissors strategically placed in the corner for "arts and crafts"? Those would have been much more effective.

Planning for an event is reality.

Yeah. And knowing what causes it helps a lot more.

Concealed carry. I carry every day I can and you would never know I was carrying.

You wear dresses on the daily? I'm going to be honest once again, this is devoid from reality. You have 20 something kids every period looking at you, for half a year. They know a lot more than you might realize. A student who knows what to look for, will be able to spot it and know who has the gun. To say nothing of the fact that rumors are incredibly damaging to schools.

Full bellies will stop 5.56x45 rounds??? Seriously?

Yeah pretty much. School districts that invest in preventative measures see decrease in issues that lead to mass shootings. That's what saved the school I worked at. Not a firearm.

Stopping classroom disruptions is good. But don't you want to be prepared in case the worst case happens? Do you have a fire extinguisher? Car insurance?

The worst case scenario is a special needs student who is without their aide because the aide couldn't afford to keep working at the school and was violent one day. The worse case scenario is wondering where the abused child went, because the SPED department was unable to find him an aide because the aides couldn't afford to keep working. The worse case scenario is hearing a student scream they're suicidal and want to die, and all you can do is shut the door because someone else is taking care of the situation.

Don't talk about worse case scenarios. I've lived through these. Have you ever worked in a school before? Because from the way you're posting, I don't think you have.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

The problem here is someone shooting at you and your students with a gun.
What better solution than shooting back?

Thinking mostly. If I had a firearm in my classroom and a gunman tried to enter it, assuming lockdown procedures were in place, a firearm would have been absolutely useless. But scissors in the corner placed there for "arts and crafts", would have been far more effective.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Well at least you hit one of the dead bodies from gun violence. Tell me any other developed nation where the leading cause of death for children is guns. I want to know which one it is.

Not going to address your whole post because we keep circling around the same arguments. I don’t believe you are thinking rationally on how to deal with the threat but I wish you luck with your scissors.

Just had to address the claim the the “leading cause of death of children is guns”. This is an oft-repeated lie from the gun control crowd. It is only correct if you exclude children <1 year old and include 18 and 19 year old adults in the total.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/07/12/_guns_are_not_the_leading_cause_of_childrens_deaths.html

BTW, a lot of the deaths of teenagers are due to criminal activity.

 

[NolanVoyd]

I said:
I read each of your 'stories' to the point where they rest on the proposition that proves causation"

That sentence doesn't make sense.

Is it typos?

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Thinking mostly. If I had a firearm in my classroom and a gunman tried to enter it, assuming lockdown procedures were in place, a firearm would have been absolutely useless.

You cannot possibly believe this.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

That sentence doesn't make sense.

It does to anyone who has passed the 3rd grade.
The three sentences I quoited from your stories prove they rest on the idea that correlation proves causation.
Just like I said they would.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Yeah. Because there's a difference when there is a firearm and when there isn't one. Once that gunman enters the room, there is no clear line of sight because the kids are going to be screaming and fleeing...

You already said SOP was to hide in a corner away from the door.
If you are standing in front of the students, when the gunman come sin the door, you have a clear LOS to the door.

 

[Glitch]

Now let's assume that having access to an unlocked firearm is endangering the life of a minor. Which it is. What's going to happen is CPS is going to make a lot of house visits because a kid telling a teacher they have access to firearms without the supervision of a parent.



It's like you took a shot and missed the target entirely.



Couldn't tell you. I was a kid at the time. Never fire another gun.



I'm sorry but I can't take this seriously, this is ridiculous on its face. Give me a serious argument. You are clearly a gun nerd. You know a lot about guns and how to use them. But this is something that unless you teach you will almost never realize. Not everyone is a nerd like you. You have to meet the people who are not gun nerds at their level. In other words you need to make a human argument. You're effectively saying "if only everyone is like me then we wouldn't have these problems". You're making scenarios that are perfect. I mean listen to your argument. The teacher is going to step in front of the kids in the corner. What's going to happen if the teacher forgets the safety is on in the moment and the gunman sees a gun? They're going to shoot into the crowd of children!

That's not what you're talking about, but it's clearly devoid from reality. Make an argument that's rooted in reality.



Weren't you just asking how people are going to know if a teacher has a firearm.



A firearm in a classroom is not effective at fighting back. Want to know what is effective? Making sure students have full bellies when they go into a classroom. Stops a lot of classroom disruptions before they boil over into a path that leads to mass shootings.

I have had access to firearms since I was six years old. My father trained me in firearm safety at age 6 and started taking me hunting when I was 8. When I was 10 years old my father bought me my first firearm. It stayed in my closet when not in use. I also frequently brought my firearms to school when I turned 16 and licensed to drive. That way I didn't have to go home to get my firearm, I could go straight from my last class into the field to hunt.

I received additional firearm training from the US Marine Corps.

Both students and teachers can be armed in Alaska. Students require the permission of their parents/guardian before they can bring their firearms to school. We have even built indoor gun ranges into our high schools specifically to teach students firearm safety and proficiency.

The Alaska Department of Fish & Game also requires minors to possess certification that they completed a firearm safety course before they can be issued a hunting license. The school course on firearm safety provides that certification.

Had the teacher Candice Berner been armed in 2010 when she went for a jog in the woods she may not have been killed by wolves.

Wolves killed Alaska teacher in 2010, state says

Candice Berner was attacked and killed in March 2010 by two or more wolves while jogging near the village of Chignik Lake on the Alaska Peninsula, according to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

www.adn.com

It is always better to be armed and not need it, than to need it and not be armed.

 

[CLAX1911]

In the #1 section I find it unbelievable that the content presented will be content neutral.
In the 2nd point, arming teachers will not save lives. There is no place for guns on campus.

If there is no place for guns on campus then the only place they will be in is in the hands of murderers.

Before I graduated class recently I carried my gun to school. Other people did too we didn't have shootouts what do you think's going to happen that doesn't happen everywhere else?

 

[JMB1911A1]

And Iowa is onboard to help protect students.

MSN

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Before I graduated class recently I carried my gun to school.

As did I - though it -was- quite a while ago.

 

[CLAX1911]

As did I - though it -was- quite a while ago.

They made campus carry legal in I think 2018, there weren't an increase in accidental shootings

 

[Mungo Jerry]

They made campus carry legal in I think 2018, there weren't an increase in accidental shootings

Imagine that.
It wasn't legal when I did it.

 

[Glitch]

If there is no place for guns on campus then the only place they will be in is in the hands of murderers.

Before I graduated class recently I carried my gun to school. Other people did too we didn't have shootouts what do you think's going to happen that doesn't happen everywhere else?

Before moving to Alaska I never carried firearms regularly. I only carried them when hunting or at the range. When I lived in Nebraska that included bringing my Winchester Model 1912 to high school when I got my driver's license and my own vehicle. That way I could leave immediately after my last class and head to the farmer's field to shoot pheasant, not wasting any time heading home first to get my firearm. Often I would go with my brother or with friends.

We all took firearm safety very seriously, and nobody was ever injured on any of our hunting trips.

I stopped bringing my firearms to school when I started attending college. I had to commute 66 miles to get to school, and my workload didn't allow for hunting after class. However, I did bring my personal firearms with me after joining the Marine Corps, and I continued to hunt while stationed at Camp Pendleton, California.

I just never felt the need to be armed because of other humans. I'm bigger than most humans and not intimidated by others. So I do not consider humans to be a threat. Moose, bear, and other critters that weigh more than 1,000 pounds however are another story. It is this time of year in particular that one needs to be especially observant of their surroundings. Spring is always a very dangerous time in Alaska.

 

[CLAX1911]

Before moving to Alaska I never carried firearms regularly. I only carried them when hunting or at the range. When I lived in Nebraska that included bringing my Winchester Model 1912 to high school when I got my driver's license and my own vehicle. That way I could leave immediately after my last class and head to the farmer's field to shoot pheasant, not wasting any time heading home first to get my firearm. Often I would go with my brother or with friends.

We all took firearm safety very seriously, and nobody was ever injured on any of our hunting trips.

I stopped bringing my firearms to school when I started attending college. I had to commute 66 miles to get to school, and my workload didn't allow for hunting after class. However, I did bring my personal firearms with me after joining the Marine Corps, and I continued to hunt while stationed at Camp Pendleton, California.

I just never felt the need to be armed because of other humans. I'm bigger than most humans and not intimidated by others. So I do not consider humans to be a threat. Moose, bear, and other critters that weigh more than 1,000 pounds however are another story. It is this time of year in particular that one needs to be especially observant of their surroundings. Spring is always a very dangerous time in Alaska.

Well that's fine that has to do with where you live. I don't live around moose or bears or mountain lions or tigers or anything like that. I live in a very Metro. Urban environment and the thing that is the biggest threat to me as other people.

And the arm of the statue that I could take one on or maybe two on one-on-one or two on one but in the event that it's 10:00 on one which is something that could happen or the event that someone I care for that's less adept and taking on an adult human I feel that I need production from them.

I've used it in a situation where I had to protect other people from someone threatening them. Thank God I never fired a shot the threat and ability to inact the force was enough.

But that's why I carry a gun in the gun I carry probably be pretty useless against a bear or a moose is a very short barrel semi-automatic pistol. It carries enough wall up to stop a person especially if I shoot him more than once but I don't know about a bear or a moose.

Different strokes

 

[Glitch]

Well that's fine that has to do with where you live. I don't live around moose or bears or mountain lions or tigers or anything like that. I live in a very Metro. Urban environment and the thing that is the biggest threat to me as other people.

And the arm of the statue that I could take one on or maybe two on one-on-one or two on one but in the event that it's 10:00 on one which is something that could happen or the event that someone I care for that's less adept and taking on an adult human I feel that I need production from them.

I've used it in a situation where I had to protect other people from someone threatening them. Thank God I never fired a shot the threat and ability to inact the force was enough.

But that's why I carry a gun in the gun I carry probably be pretty useless against a bear or a moose is a very short barrel semi-automatic pistol. It carries enough wall up to stop a person especially if I shoot him more than once but I don't know about a bear or a moose.

Different strokes

You should always determine your own security needs, because only you are aware of what they are. If you feel the need to carry regularly, then you absolutely should. It doesn't matter what others think, because they are not you. We all have different life experiences.

When I lived in Los Angeles I never felt the need to be armed, at least against humans. Even walking through Compton or East Los Angeles the gang members I encountered were never hostile towards me, and I never felt that I was in any danger. I was only armed when visiting the range or on one of my hunting trips.

I only experienced violence towards me on one occasion by another human. Someone attempted to rob me once when I was in Hollywood. He pulled a knife on me from behind, and it did not end well for him. I ended up breaking two bones in my hand when I turned around and punched the side of his head. He dropped the knife and ran away. If someone is going to rob me they had better bring a large caliber firearm, because otherwise they will not succeed. I don't think I had more than $10 in my wallet at the time. It was not about the money, it was about the audacity someone has to illegally take something of mine. I can't tolerate that.

I'm sure that if I had experienced additional violence towards me by other humans my views on carrying firearms would be different, but fortunately that did not happen.

 

[Daddyo]

In the #1 section I find it unbelievable that the content presented will be content neutral.
In the 2nd point, arming teachers will not save lives. There is no place for guns on campus.

Eddie eagle nra program is excellent. Stop, don’t touch, leave the area and tell an adult.

Next.

On Valentine’s Day several years ago Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school was being shot up by a crazy bastard ex student. I went to visit my wife, a teacher in Hillsborough county, to bring her a Valentine’s Day gift. She doesn’t like for me to buy her flowers. She sees them as a waste as they die so quickly. Anyway this makes Valentine’s Day more difficult for me lol. So I decide that instead of flowers I will bring her a pile of Little Ceasars Pizzas that she can hand out to the low income students who work hard for her in class. She loves that so a perfect gift. I arrive at the school or across the street from the school. I have a gun on me that I can’t bring with me so it must stay in my vehicle. Can’t be on school grounds with it. So I leave it in the car off campus and walk. I am now in her class and watching her face glow as she hands out this pizza. Kids are going ape shit over shitty little ceasar’s pizza lol. I am in my wife’s class as MSD high school was being shot up. Had this been my wife’s school instead I would have been utterly helpless to defend my wife or myself much less the kids. I have trained with firearms most of my life. I easily outshoot most police even now that I have aged significantly. I know this because I have easily defeated in competition, police considered better than most of their colleagues. This includes several of my own family who are officers or deputies and my sons ex girlfriends family member who is LE. I also outshot my criminal justice instructor decades ago who literally said I was already better than most police. So I am capable of fighting as good or better than police yet my gun was in my vehicle. I should be allowed to carry in school just as I carry in public daily. I would love for my wife to be able to be armed. She shoots lights out. The criminal bent on murder will bring a gun on campus. Yet I can’t defend my own wife while visiting. It’s a joke.

And it’s all because people like you just can’t grasp that bad guys will not obey gun laws. In fact if they are willing to murder, they will not obey any lesser laws. And my wife and I both would be willing to take whatever training necessary to be allowed to carry on school grounds.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Eddie eagle nra program is excellent. Stop, don’t touch, leave the area and tell an adult.

I checked out the various "gun safety organizations" like Everytown and Brady Campaign and Giffords.
None of them offer -any- gun safety training, at any level.
The NRA offers any number of them.

Kinda makes you wonder how serious these other organizations are about "safety".

 

[JMB1911A1]

I checked out the various "gun safety organizations" like Everytown and Brady Campaign and Giffords.
None of them offer -any- gun safety training, at any level.
The NRA offers any number of them.

Kinda makes you wonder how serious these other organizations are about "safety".

Gun “safety” to them means 100% civilian disarmament and the waiting 30 minutes for the cops to show up to clean up the bodies.