True American Hero

[bomberfox]

If you like sociopaths. His war against civilians created a century of justified hatred.

The South and the slavery culture had to be destroyed. But the South fought far more honorably than the North. It could be argued that is why the South lost. If the war had started with Southern forces raiding North burning down everything thing in its path like became the North's tactic the South may have won.

Justified hatred? You have no idea what you speak of like usual joko. They were defending their power over other human beings. Its even in their cornerstone speech.

 

[joko104]

You squealed about “a century of justified hatred “. That “hatred” was due to having to give up slavery, produced Jim Crow, and there was absolutely nothing justified about it.

The Confederate military was the one who actively employed guerrillas—- led by psychopaths like Quantrill and Bloody Bill Anderson, and men like Jesse James serving under them. The atrocities they committed were a key part of southern strategy. Claiming they fought “honorably” is a bad joke.

Who is squealing is you.

The hatred was foremost due to the attacks against civilians, though there were other reasons. The South did not attack and burn down Northern cities. It did not invade the North burning everything in it's path. The South didn't issue orders that Northern women who are not respectfully can be beaten and raped. The South never adopted a scourged earth policy. One reason the North was so respectful towards Confederate generals is because they followed the rules of war at that time.

Otherwise, I'm not going to debate someone just making up history to rant. No one you named was a major Southern commander and never had more than a very small number of men in their force. All ultimately were treated as criminals, not Confederate commanders.

 

[Closer]

The first attack on Federal shipping sent to replenish Ft. Sumter preceded Lincoln taking office.

It already went boom.

Before Lincoln.

And the result was that instead of just one state seceding, four or five more followed the first one, which was why Lincoln wanted to do ti again, to get the rest of them to secede.

 

[Closer]

The south wanted war and they knew about abolition before the war. They were not going to accept abolition even if an amendment to the constitution was passed.

Rubbish. They had already won all the Supreme Court cases re slavery, and Tainey was still Chief Justice at the time; if you were educated on the times you would recognize him as the deciding Judge on the Dred Scott decision. Lincoln himself said Congress had no authority to ban slavery in any state, ans he admitted he knew this when he made his bogus 'Proclamation'. He vetoed the Wade-Harris Bill precisely because it had a clause outlawing slavery. You people really are ignorant and just trolling, anyway,

 

[Closer]

Lol. Op eds are not the same as quotes from the people themselves. I can provide direct quotes from the confederates demonstrating that they made it about slavery .

I provided quotes of Lincoln that verified the newspaper quotes. I realize you can't refute what I said, so you have to resort to stomping your feet and
Posting Last!!! like an angry child.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Rubbish. They had already won all the Supreme Court cases re slavery, and Tainey was still Chief Justice at the time; if you were educated on the times you would recognize him as the deciding Judge on the Dred Scott decision. Lincoln himself said Congress had no authority to ban slavery in any state, ans he admitted he knew this when he made his bogus 'Proclamation'. He vetoed the Wade-Harris Bill precisely because it had a clause outlawing slavery. You people really are ignorant and just trolling, anyway,

Too bad.

 

[Tigerace117]

Who is squealing is you.

The hatred was foremost due to the attacks against civilians, though there were other reasons. The South did not attack and burn down Northern cities. It did not invade the North burning everything in it's path. The South didn't issue orders that Northern women who are not respectfully can be beaten and raped. The South never adopted a scourged earth policy. One reason the North was so respectful towards Confederate generals is because they followed the rules of war at that time.

Otherwise, I'm not going to debate someone just making up history to rant. No one you named was a major Southern commander and never had more than a very small number of men in their force. All ultimately were treated as criminals, not Confederate commanders.

The attacks were due to hatred over the fact that they could no longer keep African Americans enslaved. The “former” Confederates were horrified by the end of slavery and sought to keep African Americans “in their place” by any means they could. The Confederates and their guerrillas certainly did attack northern settlements(as well as western ones, most famously Lawrence, Kansas). They enslaved civilians and brought them south. Only the threat of retaliation kept them from systematically murdering USCT troops and officers who’d been captured.

The Northern commanders were “so respectful” because in many cases the men they were fighting against were old friends.....not because the Confederates were “honorable” in any way.

The Confederate government actively supported and encouraged men like Quantrill and Anderson......and that alone is enough to debunk your claims of “southern honor”.

 

[bomberfox]

Rubbish. They had already won all the Supreme Court cases re slavery, and Tainey was still Chief Justice at the time; if you were educated on the times you would recognize him as the deciding Judge on the Dred Scott decision. Lincoln himself said Congress had no authority to ban slavery in any state, ans he admitted he knew this when he made his bogus 'Proclamation'. He vetoed the Wade-Harris Bill precisely because it had a clause outlawing slavery. You people really are ignorant and just trolling, anyway,

sigh.... Hooo budy....
You seem really keen on defending massa. I wonder why . You one of those neo confederates hoping to become massa again?
This is a direct contemporary source by the way, the fact you couldnt bother to give even one of these is telling

DECLARATION OF CAUSES: February 2, 1861 A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union. | TSLAC
In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and the negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

Why Non-Slaveholding Southerners Fought | American Battlefield Trust (battlefields.org)
Why non slaveholding southerners fought to preserve slavery

Florida Declaration (civilwarcauses.org)
By the agency of a large proportion of the members from the non slaveholding States books have been published and circulated amongst us the direct tendency and avowed purpose of which is to excite insurrection and servile war with all their attendant horrors. A President has recently been elected, an obscure and illiterate man without experience in public affairs or any general reputation mainly if not exclusively on account of a settled and often proclaimed hostility to our institutions and a fixed purpose to abolish them. It is denied that it is the purpose of the party soon to enter into the possession of the powers of the Federal Government to abolish slavery by any direct legislative act. This has never been charged by any one. But it has been announced by all the leading men and presses of the party that the ultimate accomplishment of this result is its settled purpose and great central principle. That no more slave States shall be admitted into the confederacy and that the slaves from their rapid increase (the highest evidence of the humanity of their owners will become value less. Nothing is more certain than this and at no distant day. What must be the condition of the slaves themselves when their number becomes so large that their labor will be of no value to their owners. Their natural tendency every where shown where the race has existed to idleness vagrancy and crime increased by an inability to procure subsistence. Can any thing be more impudently false than the pretense that this state of things is to be brought about from considerations of humanity to the slaves.


The filth that was the confederacy is dead and if there is a hell, they're roasting in it.

 

[bomberfox]

Gov. Joseph Brown's Open Letter (civilwarcauses.org)
First, is the election of Mr. Lincoln sufficient cause to justify the secession of the Southern States from the Union? In my opinion the election of Mr. Lincoln, viewed only in the light of the triumph of a successful candidate, is not sufficient cause for a dissolution of the Union. This, however, is a very contracted and narrow view of the question. Mr. Lincoln is a mere mote in the great political atmosphere of the country, which, as it floats, only shows the direction in which the wind blows. He is the mere representative of a fanatical abolition sentiment-- the mere instrument of a great triumphant political party, the principles of which are deadly hostile to the institution of Slavery, and openly at war with the fundamental doctrines of the Constitution of the United States. The rights of the South, and the institution of slavery, are not endangered by the triumph of Mr. Lincoln, the man; but they are in imminent danger from the triumph of the powerful party which he represents, and of the fanatical abolition sentiment which brought him into power, as the candidate of the Northern section of the Union, over the united opposition of the Southern section against him. The party embracing that sentiment, has constantly denied, and still denies, our equality in the Union, and our right to hold our slaves as property; and avows its purpose to take from us our property, so soon as it has the power. Its ability to elect Mr. Lincoln as its candidate, shows it now has the power to control the Executive branch of the Government. As the President, with the advice and consent of the Senate, appoints the Judges of the Supreme Court of the United States, when vacancies occur, its control of the Executive power will, in a few years, give it the control of the Judicial Department; while the constant increase of abolition sentiment, in the Northern States, now largely in the majority in Congress, together with the admission of other free States, will very soon, give it the power in the Legislative Department. The whole Government will then be in the hands of our enemies. The election of Mr. Lincoln is the first great step in this programme. It is the triumph of the Northern over the Southern section of the Union: of Northern fanaticism over Southern equality and Southern rights. While, therefore, the election of Mr. Lincoln, as a man, is no sufficient cause to justify secession, the triumph of the Northern section of the Union over the Southern section, upon a platform of avowed hostility to our rights, does, in my opinion, afford ample cause to justify the South in withdrawing from a confederacy where her equality, her honor, and the rights of her people, can no longer be protected.

 

[bomberfox]

Trust me bub. I got plenty more where that comes from. Told ya the confederates knew the jig was up.

 

[bomberfox]

And the result was that instead of just one state seceding, four or five more followed the first one, which was why Lincoln wanted to do ti again, to get the rest of them to secede.

 

[bomberfox]

I provided quotes of Lincoln that verified the newspaper quotes. I realize you can't refute what I said, so you have to resort to stomping your feet and
Posting Last!!! like an angry child.

lol im not even stamping my feet. I already researched this shit . Every state that seceded, Jefferson Davis and his vice president all said in no uncertain terms it was about slavery.

 

[Fledermaus]

And the result was that instead of just one state seceding, four or five more followed the first one, which was why Lincoln wanted to do ti again, to get the rest of them to secede.

Oh, FFS

Stop blaming Lincoln for the stupid choices of slave holders...

The fort was to be resupplied because the fort needed supplies.

The South started the fight and like most school yard bullies eventually got their asses kicked.

 

[Fledermaus]

I provided quotes of Lincoln that verified the newspaper quotes. I realize you can't refute what I said, so you have to resort to stomping your feet and
Posting Last!!! like an angry child.

Last time I checked you posted ONE quote by Lincoln that DID NOT support your claim.

The rest were other people and OP-EDs.

 

[Closer]

Post a lot of spam, and then post clear evidence you know nothing about who, why, and when they seceded. Typical poorly educated type with no chance of rebutting anything, just Posting Last. It must suck to know your Hero Lincoln was really just another crooked corporate shill, like your Hero Biden is. If you really think Lincoln started the war over slavery then try and explain why that even with all those evil Southerners gone the Yankee Congress never got around to outlawing slavery, but they made lots of time for the Tarriff Acts, the Railroad subsidies, and the Land Acts to support the railroad welfare programs, yet vetoed two Bills to outlaw slavery, and Lincoln himself said Congress didn't have the power to do so?

Well, no point in asking you, you don't even know how to verify sources; the Peanut Gallery can do their own homework on this.

 

[Fledermaus]

Post a lot of spam, and then post clear evidence you know nothing about who, why, and when they seceded. Typical poorly educated type with no chance of rebutting anything, just Posting Last. It must suck to know your Hero Lincoln was really just another crooked corporate shill, like your Hero Biden is. If you really think Lincoln started the war over slavery then try and explain why that even with all those evil Southerners gone the Yankee Congress never got around to outlawing slavery, but they made lots of time for the Tarriff Acts, the Railroad subsidies, and the Land Acts to support the railroad welfare programs, yet vetoed two Bills to outlaw slavery, and Lincoln himself said Congress didn't have the power to do so?

Well, no point in asking you, you don't even know how to verify sources; the Peanut Gallery can do their own homework on this.

The South seceded and started a war with the intent of preserving the God Given right to enslave humans.

Period.

 

[bomberfox]

Post a lot of spam, and then post clear evidence you know nothing about who, why, and when they seceded. Typical poorly educated type with no chance of rebutting anything, just Posting Last. It must suck to know your Hero Lincoln was really just another crooked corporate shill, like your Hero Biden is. If you really think Lincoln started the war over slavery then try and explain why that even with all those evil Southerners gone the Yankee Congress never got around to outlawing slavery, but they made lots of time for the Tarriff Acts, the Railroad subsidies, and the Land Acts to support the railroad welfare programs, yet vetoed two Bills to outlaw slavery, and Lincoln himself said Congress didn't have the power to do so?

Well, no point in asking you, you don't even know how to verify sources; the Peanut Gallery can do their own homework on this.

I know why they seceded. It was because of slavery. They specifically laid it out in the declaration of causes and the cornerstone speech. All contemporary sources. Lincoln didnt start the war massa.

 

[slick]

No Britain did not burn down Washington DC - had thet done so it would have been an act of terrorism
They burned down selected public buildings

Keep up with your straw-man, it makes you look more and more laughable



Wrong again




Which "slaver heroes" would they be ?

You hero Sherman was a racist too, as well as a terroristic general, regardless who he might have spared
Your posts are getting more and more laughable




It was at best, an unwise folly. And it's been speculated that Harris was more interested in punishing Germany for their bombing of the UK in the blitz
A good source of information on this can be had in Max Hasting's excellent book: Bomber Command

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

The Germans did indeed regard it as terrorism, nevertheless - had allied soldiers occupied a town and then torched it, it would have contravened the law of armed conflict and definitely have been a terrorist act




Because the terroristic crimes Sherman committed was akin to much of what German forces did in WWII




Sorry, no slaver heroes and they deserved to get their asses kicked. Slavery is/was immoral and forever an indelible stain on the history of the USA and any claims of "freedom" in both the DoI and the Constitution

The Southern, slave owning middle classes were as immoral as the bulk of the founders of the American Revolution and your hero Sherman himself. a callous, terroristic general and a hypocrite to boot

It's laughable that you apologize for such despicable historical figures like him.

If anyone ever fell flat on his face trying incompetently to use the powerful weapon of ridicule
it's good ol' Tigerace with his unusual bombastic flourishes.

He's become emotionally attached to cherished lies he's been peddling without success for his entire life.

 

[Tigerace117]

If anyone ever fell flat on his face trying incompetently to use the powerful weapon of ridicule
it's good ol' Tigerace with his unusual bombastic flourishes.

He's become emotionally attached to cherished lies he's been peddling without success for his entire life.

It’s always amusing watching a klansman wannabe like slick take a break from desperately clinging to irrelevant skirmishes and general Lost Cause bullshit to snivel about anyone else.

Sherman kicked your slaver heroes’ asses. Get over it.

 

[slick]

It’s always amusing watching a klansman wannabe like slick take a break from desperately clinging to irrelevant skirmishes and general Lost Cause bullshit to snivel about anyone else.

Sherman kicked your slaver heroes’ asses. Get over it.

Honestly Tiger old pal, if there was a 'gong show' on this subject you would have been 'gonged' early on!

You say 'Sherman kicked your slaver heroes’ ass' hardly!

In fact NBF's greatest adversary William T. Sherman called him “the most
remarkable man our civil war produced on either side’ & ‘he had a
strategy which was original & incomprehensible. There was no theory
or art of war by which I could calculate with any degree of certainty
what Forrest was up to.’

Does this sound like a statement someone would make about an enemy after kicking that foes ass.

The most outstanding cavalry leader either horse or mechanized ever born on US soil never had his ass kicked.

Here you go:
NBF, the soldier who engineered that tactical masterpiece at Tishomingo Creek
provided the warfighter with an experience that epitomizes the intent of FM 100-5.
Generations of leaders have studied this battle to determine how 'The Wizard of the Saddle'
achieved the virtual annihilation of a better equipped and supplied Union army that
outnumbered his forces almost three to one. The battlefield is a virtual tactical time capsule

BTW, Tiger:
The Institute for Military Studies concluded that the Battle of Brice's Crossroads (won by Forrest),
was perhaps the most spectacular display of tactical genius during warfare. They don't give those
kind of accolades for participating in 'irrelevant skirmishes'.

Forrest’s unforgettable debut on a cold winter day at Sacramento was a harbinger of ill fortune for his future Union opponents. The blacksmith’s son from Tennessee had only just begun to tap into a fervor for battle that few other men could match. Despite his lack of professional military training, Forrest rode roughshod over his Union foes throughout the Civil War, and rose to the rank of lieutenant general. By then, Northern commanders such as Major General William T. Sherman remembered him simply as ‘that Devil Forrest.’

 

[Tigerace117]

Honestly Tiger old pal, if there was a 'gong show' on this subject you would have been 'gonged' early on!

You say 'Sherman kicked your slaver heroes’ ass' hardly!

In fact NBF's greatest adversary William T. Sherman called him “the most
remarkable man our civil war produced on either side’ & ‘he had a
strategy which was original & incomprehensible. There was no theory
or art of war by which I could calculate with any degree of certainty
what Forrest was up to.’

Does this sound like a statement someone would make about an enemy after kicking that foes ass.

The most outstanding cavalry leader either horse or mechanized ever born on US soil never had his ass kicked.

Here you go:
NBF, the soldier who engineered that tactical masterpiece at Tishomingo Creek
provided the warfighter with an experience that epitomizes the intent of FM 100-5.
Generations of leaders have studied this battle to determine how 'The Wizard of the Saddle'
achieved the virtual annihilation of a better equipped and supplied Union army that
outnumbered his forces almost three to one. The battlefield is a virtual tactical time capsule

BTW, Tiger:
The Institute for Military Studies concluded that the Battle of Brice's Crossroads (won by Forrest),
was perhaps the most spectacular display of tactical genius during warfare. They don't give those
kind of accolades for participating in 'irrelevant skirmishes'.

Forrest’s unforgettable debut on a cold winter day at Sacramento was a harbinger of ill fortune for his future Union opponents. The blacksmith’s son from Tennessee had only just begun to tap into a fervor for battle that few other men could match. Despite his lack of professional military training, Forrest rode roughshod over his Union foes throughout the Civil War, and rose to the rank of lieutenant general. By then, Northern commanders such as Major General William T. Sherman remembered him simply as ‘that Devil Forrest.’

Another day, another rambling Slick post that has absolutely nothing to do with the real world.

It was, in fact, remarkable that your slaver hero was such a scumbag his own men tried to kill him on at least one occasion.

Likewise, it was remarkable that your slaver hero was complicit in one of the worst war crimes of the Civil War.

Then, of course, we get into the slick speciality: schoolgirl squealing over meaningless skirmishes which had absolutely no effect on the wider war effort.

But hey, I’m sure he saw that as a consolation prize as slavery was destroyed and the Confederacy crushed

 

[ecofarm]

All peoples have a right of self-determination, to sever their bonds "institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. " (Dec. of Ind.)

What about black people? Kinda funny how you ignore slavery.

 

[slick]

Another day, another rambling Slick post that has absolutely nothing to do with the real world.

It was, in fact, remarkable that your slaver hero was such a scumbag his own men tried to kill him on at least one occasion.

Likewise, it was remarkable that your slaver hero was complicit in one of the worst war crimes of the Civil War.

Then, of course, we get into the slick speciality: schoolgirl squealing over meaningless skirmishes which had absolutely no effect on the wider war effort.

But hey, I’m sure he saw that as a consolation prize as slavery was destroyed and the Confederacy crushed

Quickly, Tiger enough of your meandering incompetent attempts to contradict! Also we went over the Fort Pillow
battle long ago whence you made fictional claims. I supplied evidence that disproved it.
There was no "grey" area. No scope to "read between the lines" in regards to your claim that bears no relation to reality.
Please let's not rehash that again. I’ve seen these signs now for months Tigerace your lies getting a little more frequent, and your posts getting more unhinged. Long ago I tried to to help you along, but this is turning into some heavy lifting.

Your crippled by bias & hatred, no responsible lawyer would ever include you in a jury to judge the
value of historical giants like NBF who possessed the valor of the lion & the cunning of the serpent.
Please do better in 2021!! You had no wins against me on this subject in the past. You should try
to get one this year. Start slow.

PS: How much do you charge for your work as a 4th rate PR man?

 

[Tigerace117]

Quickly, Tiger enough of your meandering incompetent attempts to contradict! Also we went over the Fort Pillow
battle long ago whence you made fictional claims. I supplied evidence that disproved it.
There was no "grey" area. No scope to "read between the lines" in regards to your claim that bears no relation to reality.
Please let's not rehash that again. I’ve seen these signs now for months Tigerace your lies getting a little more frequent, and your posts getting more unhinged. Long ago I tried to to help you along, but this is turning into some heavy lifting.

Your crippled by bias & hatred, no responsible lawyer would ever include you in a jury to judge the
value of historical giants like NBF who possessed the valor of the lion & the cunning of the serpent.
Please do better in 2021!! You had no wins against me on this subject in the past. You should try
to get one this year. Start slow.

PS: How much do you charge for your work as a 4th rate PR man?

Yawn. Another day, another round of slick wailing because having to face the facts burns them like sunlight burns a vampire.

We throughly established Forrest‘s complicity in one of the worst war crimes of the war, yes.

It’s always funny watching a Neo Confederate wannabe accuse anyone else of “lying” or “being unhinged”. Crawl back into your Jim Crow fairy tale land bud, relics of the bad old days have no room to talk.

Your hero worship of the Klan is noted, but unfortunately for you and your idol no number of meaningless skirmishes could save the Confederacy and slavery from being crushed.

But hey, way to remind everyone of how delusional you are.