Transwomen are not women and why radfems object to the idea

[bomberfox]

Of course another possibility is that it's just a bloke who wants access to women's changing rooms, and if it is, having declared themselves as trans there's not much women can do to prevent that. They can't even ask him/her to leave as that would be transphobic.

You dont have any evidence of this aside from anecdotal.

 

[Lisa]

You don't have any evidence of this aside from anecdotal.

They didnt know or care that trans people existed until the GOP needed a new minority to attack after the Obergefell decision and then trans people because they cause du jour. If trans females need to use the men's restroom then transmen use the female restroom, which at that time the perverts won't even have to dress in drag to enter. They'll just claim to be trans guys. What will happen when trans females are sexually assaulted in a male bathroom,. or doesn't that matter? Maybe all trans females should be issued a handgun when they get their estrogen prescription filled, so protect themselves from conservative Christians.

Trans athletes have existed since Renee Richards playing pro tennis in the 1970s.

Renée Richards (born August 19, 1934) is an American ophthalmologist and former tennis player who had some success on the professional circuit in the 1970s, and became widely known following male-to-female sex reassignment surgery, when she fought to compete as a woman in the 1976 US Open.

Wiki

 

[CLAX1911]

He was obviously referring to women who are born infertile.

How do you know they're women?

 

[Lisa]

How do you know they're women?

JFCoaS, How can you ask this question with a straight face?

Not every woman is naturally fertile, or even wants to be? This is why we have fertility treatments and IVF, plus surrogates.

Female infertility-Female infertility - Symptoms & causes - Mayo Clinic

Learn about infertility in women, including possible causes, what tests might be needed and fertility treatments available to help with getting pregnant.

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[CLAX1911]

JFCoaS, How can you ask this question with a straight face?

Not every woman is naturally fertile, or even wants to be? This is why we have fertility treatments and IVF, plus surrogates.

I understood a woman to be a human adult female.

Infrared infertile doesn't have a bearing. but apparently according to you women can have penises so they're not female, so what does the word woman mean?


I understand what female infertility means are all women female or are some of the male?

 

[Bodi]

A woman refers to gender which is separate from sex by definition as well.

A woman is a female and that denotes their sex... the ability (potentially) to bear offspring.

 

[Bodi]

Gay men and lesbian women, tend to see the trans struggle, as like BLM sees all lives matter. It is watering down their fight.

Never met a gay or lesbian that did not openly embrace the fight for equality that trans people also face...

 

[Lisa]

I understood a woman to be a human adult female.

Infrared infertile doesn't have a bearing. but apparently according to you women can have penises so they're not female, so what does the word woman mean?


I understand what female infertility means are all women female or are some of the male?

A trans woman is still a woman because of her gender identity, just as much as those who are born with XX genes. Many trans women also want to have children. Your idea that women are limited to those of us who have XX genes or female DNA is outdated by 30 years. My question is why do you care? Do you see yourself as a gender gatekeeper?

How a Transgender Woman Could Get Pregnant

The uncharted territory of uterus transplants is sparking patients’ interest, but surgeons and endocrinologists remain wary

www.scientificamerican.com

The Cleveland Clinic is at the forefront of the research.

With womb transplants a reality, transgender women dare to dream of pregnancies

Transgender women now see hope that they could one day become pregnant — despite having been born biological males — thanks to pioneering uterus transplant surgery.

www.statnews.com

Never met a gay or lesbian that did not openly embrace the fight for equality that trans people also face...

I've met a few of them. They are ignorant of the fact that the core of the Stonewall riots were trans females.

Transgender Women of Color at Stonewall | Equality Archive

History remembers New York’s iconic Stonewall Inn as the birthplace of the modern LGBT rights movement. On June 28, 1969 it’s bar patrons clashed with the police who had arrived to arrest and shame same-sex couples who came there to dance and socialize with each other. The Rebellion on this day...

equalityarchive.com

 

[CLAX1911]

A trans woman is still a woman because of her gender identity, just as much as those who are born with XX genes.

right we already covered this as I understood it the word woman means adult human female.

So the word woman, no longer means adult human female so you have to go into what the hell it means.

Many trans women also want to have children. Your idea that women are limited to those of us who have XX genes or female DNA is outdated by 30 years. My question is why do you care? Do you see yourself as a gender gatekeeper?

this is not me I did not decree the meaning of words I'm not the emperor of language.

In common language woman means adult human female. That's not me gatekeeping that's the language creating words to mean something.

so if you tell me in the context of this conversation that words means something other than their common definition fine I'll listen Define them please.

I'm not even arguing with you about anything at this point I'm asking you to explain the meanings of words since they are different than common parlance.

I accept the nuance now decipher the nuance

I deleted all the links because we aren't even there yet you need to Define terms.

 

[maquiscat]

Why wouldn't they be female or male?

Because they did not meet the initial criteria that you gave. You then later changed the criteria.

Sterilization is not relevant you are distracting to avoid answering my question.

I did not mention sterilization. That was your strawman. I even acceded that the loss of being fertile (i.e. being able to provide the egg or the sperm) didn't remove the status. But never having the ability is different.

Common.

Since I never mention the usage of the word "common" another strawman. Try again.

right if they didn't have a defective reproductive system that would also apply.

But they do thus "male" and "female" don't apply to the definitions of "can bear offspring" and "can fertilize the egg". That "can" is a key word in the definition.

But let's expand upon that some more. Define a "defective reproduction system". Is it simply not having any eggs or sperm available? Does it go as far as organs opposite of the chromosomes developing? If such is the case then aren't you actually saying that it is the genitals that is the deciding factor, working or not?

what does this have to do with anything?

If you are going to claim that a given individual is a male or female, then you obviously are able to tell when you meet them.

What does meeting them have to do with anything?

I'm willing to alter that to seeing, to account for looking at them not in person. The point of the question is how do you tell if someone is male or female? What is the deciding factor? Or do we just have to take their word for it?

 

[maquiscat]

He was obviously referring to women who are born infertile.

I was not limiting it to women.

 

[maquiscat]

JFCoaS, How can you ask this question with a straight face?

Not every woman is naturally fertile, or even wants to be? This is why we have fertility treatments and IVF, plus surrogates.

Female infertility-Female infertility - Symptoms & causes - Mayo Clinic

Learn about infertility in women, including possible causes, what tests might be needed and fertility treatments available to help with getting pregnant.

www.mayoclinic.org

You pretty much fell into the issue as CLaxx has. What actually defines a "man" or "woman", and likewise a "male" and a "female"? Are the first and second set the same or different?

 

[maquiscat]

A woman is a female and that denotes their sex... the ability (potentially) to bear offspring.

Now I will throw it to you. If they have never had any potential to bear offspring (such as born without a uterus, or gonads never developed into overies) then are they not a female or woman?

 

[CLAX1911]

Because they did not meet the initial criteria that you gave. You then later changed the criteria.

I went with common parlance which is not an uncommon thing to do if you want to know how words are used.


You said it wasn't nuanced enough and then you refused to give a more nuanced definition when asked.

I didn't make the words mean what they mean I didn't change the criteria that's what they mean according to common parlance.

If you're going to speak in a more nuanced language yet refuse to define it how is that not cognitive dissonance?

 

[Integrityrespec]

It has been happening for decades and it never been a problem. You only learned about it when the GOP needed a new boogeyman after LGBT marriage was determined by the SCOTUS. Trans women are not pedophiles.

So you are OK with men who want to be women, competing against "real women"? Sad.

 

[CLAX1911]

I was not limiting it to women.

What does woman mean?

 

[Bodi]

Now I will throw it to you. If they have never had any potential to bear offspring (such as born without a uterus, or gonads never developed into overies) then are they not a female or woman?

That is why I said potentially

 

[Lisa]

So you are OK with men who want to be women, competing against "real women"? Sad.

Transwomen are not men. They are women or or they would not be a transwomen.

Do you really think that being transgendered is a whim? The current rule is that they must be on hormones and stabilized at the female levels for testosterone and estrogen for a minimum of 6 months. You could mandate that they have had reassignment surgery that will be paid for by the government if it isn't covered by their medical insurance. I doubt that they would have a problem with that requirement.

 

[Aristaeus]

They didnt know or care that trans people existed until the GOP needed a new minority to attack.

Being a European socialist, I don't give a damn what the GOP think. C'mon, even the trans community are divided on the idea that transwomen are women.

 

[Aristaeus]

Transwomen are not men. They are women or or they would not be a transwomen.

Do you really think that being transgendered is a whim? The current rule is that they must be on hormones and stabilized at the female levels for testosterone and estrogen for a minimum of 6 months. You could mandate that they have had reassignment surgery that will be paid for by the government if it isn't covered by their medical insurance. I doubt that they would have a problem with that requirement.

The Democratic Republic of North Korea is a democracy or it would not be called The Democratic Republic.

For athletics, transwomen competing against women need to have 5 nanomoles of testosterone per litre or less to compete. Most women, including elite athletes have testosterone levels between 0.12 and 1.79 nanomoles of testosterone per litre. So no, transwomen don't need female levels of testosterone to compete in athletics.

 

[Lisa]

The Democratic Republic of North Korea is a democracy or it would not be called The Democratic Republic.

For athletics, transwomen competing against women need to have 5 nanomoles of testosterone per litre or less to compete. Most women, including elite athletes have testosterone levels between 0.12 and 1.79 nanomoles of testosterone per litre. So no, transwomen don't need female levels of testosterone to compete in athletics.

Do you really believe that North Korea is a democracy?

 

[Aristaeus]

A trans woman is still a woman because of her gender identity, just as much as those who are born with XX genes. Many trans women also want to have children. Your idea that women are limited to those of us who have XX genes or female DNA is outdated by 30 years. My question is why do you care? Do you see yourself as a gender gatekeeper?

How a Transgender Woman Could Get Pregnant

The uncharted territory of uterus transplants is sparking patients’ interest, but surgeons and endocrinologists remain wary

www.scientificamerican.com

The Cleveland Clinic is at the forefront of the research.

With womb transplants a reality, transgender women dare to dream of pregnancies

Transgender women now see hope that they could one day become pregnant — despite having been born biological males — thanks to pioneering uterus transplant surgery.

www.statnews.com

I've met a few of them. They are ignorant of the fact that the core of the Stonewall riots were trans females.

Transgender Women of Color at Stonewall | Equality Archive

History remembers New York’s iconic Stonewall Inn as the birthplace of the modern LGBT rights movement. On June 28, 1969 it’s bar patrons clashed with the police who had arrived to arrest and shame same-sex couples who came there to dance and socialize with each other. The Rebellion on this day...

equalityarchive.com

Woman is the word used to describe an adult human female and has been for a thousand years. It is still the default definition in every English speaking dictionary in the world and the default definition in society.

Not disputing there may have transwomen involved, but the two individuals mentioned in your link, Marsha and Sylvia didn't identify themselves as transwomen. At best Sylvia was gender fluid.

 

[Aristaeus]

Do you really believe that North Korea is a democracy?

I was using your argument that a transwoman is a woman because they're called women.

 

[Aristaeus]

Now I will throw it to you. If they have never had any potential to bear offspring (such as born without a uterus, or gonads never developed into overies) then are they not a female or woman?

Is a person born with 6 fingers on each hand not a human? The only person making the argument that an infertile woman is not a woman is you. It's a dumb argument and you know it is.

 

[CLAX1911]

Transwomen are not men. They are women or or they would not be a transwomen.

Transwomen aren't women either that's why you call them Transwomen. And not women. You draw a distinction because they are distinctive.

Otherwise you're gaslighting.