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Transwomen are not women and why radfems object to the idea

Aristaeus

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Transwomen are not women. Transwomen are men who dress like women and sometimes have surgery to make them look more like women.

Woman = adult human female
Female = of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

Transwomen will always have XY genes and will never produce female gametes, hence they are male and thus men.

But why not just go about as though they are if it makes them happy? Why do many radfems object to the idea? Because what we have is a situation where men (the historically oppressive sex) are telling women (the historically oppressed sex) that the word woman is being redefined to allow men access to that class and appropriate their 'culture'. Imagine white people telling black people that not only can white people can identify as black, but white people who do so are just as black as they are and their black culture now also belongs to white people who identify as black. It is men telling women that they (men) are going to define what a woman is, not women. It is fundamentally sexist.

From a practical point, it raises issues: men using women's toilets and changing rooms will make many women uncomfortable. Most transwomen don't go through full surgery, so women are having to get undressed in front of strange men with penises, who will also be undressed. Transwomen in sport is another area where there is an inherent disadvantage for women, and of course, transwomen being appointed to women advocacy roles and getting scholarships aimed at encouraging women into certain industries.

Women who object to their safe spaces being opened up to men, or object to men dictating to them what it is to be a woman, are silenced, doxxed, and called TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminist). But they're not trans exclusionary, as they have no objection to transmen (females) using women's facilities and culture. What they are are MERFs (male exclusionary radical feminists) which is what they should be - males should be excluded from women's changing rooms, women's sports, and women's career schemes.
 
They are trans exclusionary because their targets are trans people and tend to side with reactionaries because of that issue. I do lol at all these claims of TERF oppression, when their targets suffer immensely more harm.
BTW, dictionaries give usages not divined meanings from the ether. A woman is a gender which is different from sex.
Considering these TERFs can easily get away with beating a trans person to death because of legal structures and the fears these tyrants spread even negatively affect cis women because the cops dont think they look feminine enough, its not much different than white people being afraid of black people.

its rather funny a movement that summarily rejected biological essentialism/ reductionism has so many willing to bring it back. Feh reactionaries have stolen the radical image.
 
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Transwomen are not women. Transwomen are men who dress like women and sometimes have surgery to make them look more like women.

Woman = adult human female
Female = of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

Transwomen will always have XY genes and will never produce female gametes, hence they are male and thus men.

But why not just go about as though they are if it makes them happy? Why do many radfems object to the idea? Because what we have is a situation where men (the historically oppressive sex) are telling women (the historically oppressed sex) that the word woman is being redefined to allow men access to that class and appropriate their 'culture'. Imagine white people telling black people that not only can white people can identify as black, but white people who do so are just as black as they are and their black culture now also belongs to white people who identify as black. It is men telling women that they (men) are going to define what a woman is, not women. It is fundamentally sexist.

From a practical point, it raises issues: men using women's toilets and changing rooms will make many women uncomfortable. Most transwomen don't go through full surgery, so women are having to get undressed in front of strange men with penises, who will also be undressed. Transwomen in sport is another area where there is an inherent disadvantage for women, and of course, transwomen being appointed to women advocacy roles and getting scholarships aimed at encouraging women into certain industries.

Women who object to their safe spaces being opened up to men, or object to men dictating to them what it is to be a woman, are silenced, doxxed, and called TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminist). But they're not trans exclusionary, as they have no objection to transmen (females) using women's facilities and culture. What they are are MERFs (male exclusionary radical feminists) which is what they should be - males should be excluded from women's changing rooms, women's sports, and women's career schemes.
TERFs are going to TERF.

According to TERFs, this is a woman because he was born female, depite his male gender identity. TERFs are to geder what ISIL/fundamentaists are to religion. They are hated in most of the LGBT community.

image.jpg
 
They are trans exclusionary because their targets are trans people and tend to side with reactionaries because of that issue. I do lol at all these claims of TERF oppression, when their targets suffer immensely more harm.
BTW, dictionaries give usages not divined meanings from the ether. A woman is a gender which is different from sex.
Considering these TERFs can easily get away with beating a trans person to death because of legal structures and the fears these tyrants spread even negatively affect cis women because the cops dont think they look feminine enough, its not much different than white people being afraid of black people.

its rather funny a movement that summarily rejected biological essentialism/ reductionism has so many willing to bring it back. Feh reactionaries have stolen the radical image.

If dictionaries are wrong, then please provide us with what you think the correct definition is.* What is a woman if not an adult human female?

* saying a woman is anyone who identifies as one is not a suitable definition; that's like defining an elephant as any animal that is an elephant.
 
TERFs are going to TERF.

According to TERFs, this is a woman because he was born female, depite his male gender identity. TERFs are to geder what ISIL/fundamentaists are to religion. They are hated in most of the LGBT community.

image.jpg

Lots of gay people are getting pissed off with trans activists, especially with things like the cotton ceiling.

By the way, is a transwoman who says they're not a woman, a woman?
 
The science simply doesnt back up your preschool understanding of gender and sex

There are two sexes, male and female. A woman is an adult human female; a man is an adult human male.
 
If dictionaries are wrong, then please provide us with what you think the correct definition is.* What is a woman if not an adult human female?

* saying a woman is anyone who identifies as one is not a suitable definition; that's like defining an elephant as any animal that is an elephant.
A woman refers to gender which is separate from sex by definition as well. Gender has to do with the personal and social identification while sex refers to the biological aspects. Trans women are painfully aware of their biology and to equate them with cross dressers is insanely ignorant of both. Cross dressers tend to do it for like an act, with trans people, it is much more ingrained. There would not be any dysphoria or want to transition if transgender people were not aware of their biology.
The idea that a person’s sex is determined by their anatomy at birth is not true, and we’ve known that it’s not true for decades,” said Dr. Joshua D. Safer, an endocrinologist and executive director of the Center for Transgender Medicine and Surgery at Mount Sinai Health System in New York. He is also president of the United States Professional Association of Transgender Health.
 
Lots of gay people are getting pissed off with trans activists, especially with things like the cotton ceiling.

By the way, is a transwoman who says they're not a woman, a woman?
Define lots. Women got pissed off when black people fought for their rights *shrug*.
 
There are two sexes, male and female. A woman is an adult human female; a man is an adult human male.
Actually sex isnt a true binary, a true binary has 0 exceptions. A woman is a gendered term which is different from sex.
 
Your sex is a physical attribute. If you emotionally are more similar to the other sex that does not make you the other sex.
 
Lots of gay people are getting pissed off with trans activists, especially with things like the cotton ceiling.

By the way, is a transwoman who says they're not a woman, a woman?

The blogosphere is fired up over the cotton ceiling today, a term porn actress Drew DeVaux and other queer trans women are using to challenge cis lesbians’ tendency to support trans causes generally but draw the line at sleeping with trans women or including trans lesbians in their sexual communities. Some cis lesbians have responded in outrage to the term (trigger warning on link for heavy transphobia), claiming that it implies sex with cis women without their consent, perpetuates rape culture, and reveals trans women’s patriarchal motives to break into their bedrooms as they presumably have broken into their bathrooms.


Who are these transwomen who say that they are not women? That statement is illogical.
 
There are two sexes, male and female. A woman is an adult human female; a man is an adult human male.
There is more to a person's gender than a person's DNA and their chromosomes.

Some of the first biological evidence of the incongruence transgender individuals experience, because their brain indicates they are one sex and their body another, may have been found in estrogen receptor pathways in the brain of 30 transgender individuals.


"Twenty-one variants in 19 genes have been found in estrogen signaling pathways of the brain critical to establishing whether the brain is masculine or feminine," says Dr. J. Graham Theisen, obstetrician/gynecologist and National Institutes of Health Women's Reproductive Health Research Scholar at the Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University.
Basically -- and perhaps counterintuitively -- these genes are primarily involved in estrogen's critical sprinkling of the brain right before or after birth, which is essential to masculinization of the brain.
Variants investigators identified may mean that in natal males (people whose birth sex is male) this critical estrogen exposure doesn't happen or the pathway is altered so the brain does not get masculinized. In natal females, it may mean that estrogen exposure happens when it normally wouldn't, leading to masculinization.
 
A woman refers to gender which is separate from sex by definition as well.

No, a woman refers to sex. A woman is an adult human female. That is the literal definition.
 
No, a woman refers to sex. A woman is an adult human female. That is the literal definition.

It's scary how many people seek to change reality to suit their emotional needs and preferences.
 
There is more to a person's gender than a person's DNA and their chromosomes.

Your gender is a physical attribute Lisa.
 
Your gender is a physical attribute Lisa.
It is only one of many determinative attributes. Our gender is more complicated than you or your argument wants to admit.

Transmen are born female, so are they women or men?

According to you, this is a woman,
images


You are also claiming that this is a guy.

1602704949019.jpeg
 
No, a woman refers to sex. A woman is an adult human female. That is the literal definition.
Nope. https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/48642.html
Reminds me when someone tried to argue that by definition money has intrinsic value when anyone who knows how money works today knows that is BS.
Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people.

my personal take is these things are bimodal instead of being being binaries but i could be somewhat wrong.
 
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It is only one of many determinative attributes. Our gender is more complicated than you or your argument wants to admit.

Transmen are born female, so are they women or men?

The physical part is non-negotiable unless you're changing the meaning of words. Doing what you can to look like the other gender does not actually make you that gender.
 
Woman = adult human female
Female = of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.
Wow. You really showed us. :rolleyes:

Back in the real world:
- Gender is not the same thing as biological sex.
- Biological sex is nowhere near as simple as you assert.
- There very likely are physiological causes for a substantial percentage of transgender individuals.


Why do many radfems object to the idea?
"Radfems?" Since you're super specific about the vocabulary, you should use the correct term: "trans-exclusionary radical feminist."

This is far less common today than in the past, as more and more people reject discrimination against transgender individuals and adopt more inclusive perspectives.

As to why, it's mostly due to transphobia. Adopting a feminist perspective doesn't automatically exculpate one from all forms of tribalism, or confer moral perfection.


Because what we have is a situation where men (the historically oppressive sex) are telling women (the historically oppressed sex) that the word woman is being redefined to allow men access to that class and appropriate their 'culture'.
Good job on begging the question. But no, sorry, that's wrong. Transgender women are women. It's not a means for men to magically get access to feminist culture.


Imagine white people telling black people that not only can white people can identify as black, but white people who do so are just as black as they are.....
Yes, we've heard this argument before. It doesn't fly.

Put simply: White people putting on blackface is a choice (and one with a long racist history), and which almost all of those individuals can drop when it is convenient to them. It may not be socially easy (as a few examples show). That's not the case with transgenderism.


From a practical point, it raises issues: men using women's toilets and changing rooms will make many women uncomfortable.
From a practical point, back in the 50s and 60s, black women using white women's toilets and changing rooms made many white women uncomfortable. Should we have maintained segregation on that basis?


Most transwomen don't go through full surgery, so women are having to get undressed in front of strange men with penises, who will also be undressed.
:rolleyes:


Transwomen in sport is another area where there is an inherent disadvantage for women....
Yes, that's an issue. But it doesn't mean that "transgenderism is not real."


transwomen being appointed to women advocacy roles and getting scholarships aimed at encouraging women into certain industries.
Since transgender women are women, that's not a problem. It's not like there are a bunch of dudes who are putting on a dress to qualify for the tiny handful of women-specific scholarships.


Women who object to their safe spaces being opened up to men, or object to men dictating to them what it is to be a woman, are silenced, doxxed, and called TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminist). But they're not trans exclusionary....
Yeah, they are. Sorry, but transphobia by any other name is still transphobia.

All I'm seeing here, by the way, are a bunch of attempts to erase and stigmatize transgender individuals. Not to mention that you completely ignored transgender men, I wonder why? :unsure:
 
Lots of gay people are getting pissed off with trans activists, especially with things like the cotton ceiling.

By the way, is a transwoman who says they're not a woman, a woman?
Gay men and lesbian women, tend to see the trans struggle, as like BLM sees all lives matter. It is watering down their fight.
 
The physical part is non-negotiable unless you're changing the meaning of words. Doing what you can to look like the other gender does not actually make you that gender.
Our outwards physical bodies are only part of the equation and are not determinative on their own. How many times do I need to explain this to you? Trans people have a brain gender that is not in alignment with their physical body and it is not just about dressing up because it is was then they wouldn't be transgdered but would instead be crossdresser or transvestites. Do you also want to deny that people being no-binary in their gender because that does fit into your binary gender paradigm?

What gender is a person who is XXY or XYY, if you only want to look at DNA pr chromosomes? Those people do exist. It is known as Klinefelter syndrome .
 
Our outwards physical bodies are only part of the equation and are not determinative on their own. How many times do I need to explain this to you? Trans people have a brain gender that is not in alignment with their physical body and it is not just about dressing up because it is was then they wouldn't be transgdered but would instead be crossdresser or transvestites. Do you also want to deny that people being no-binary in their gender because that does fit into your binary gender paradigm?

What gender is a person who is XXY or XYY, if you only want to look at DNA pr chromosomes? Those people do exist. It is known as Klinefelter syndrome .

Most of the people in the trans community are not people with some extremely rare genetic mutation. The physical part of gender is non-negotiable unless you are changing the meaning of the word.
 
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