• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trade war with China put on hold

poweRob

USMC 1988-1996
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
65,171
Reaction score
31,940
Location
New Mexico
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Trade wars are so easy to win that we just called a truce. :lol:

Dow surges 400 points on US-China trade ceasefire

The ceasefire between the United States and China has set off a huge celebration on Wall Street.

The Dow soared about 400 points at Monday's opening bell after China and the United States reached a temporary trade truce. It's a big relief because the damaging trade war between the world's two largest economies was set to deepen in January.

The Nasdaq and the S&P 500 climbed more than 1% apiece.

"A truce is definitely better than an escalation of hostilities," Kit Juckes, strategist at Societe Generale, wrote to clients on Monday.​
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Trade wars are so easy to win that we just called a truce. :lol:

Dow surges 400 points on US-China trade ceasefire

The ceasefire between the United States and China has set off a huge celebration on Wall Street.

The Dow soared about 400 points at Monday's opening bell after China and the United States reached a temporary trade truce. It's a big relief because the damaging trade war between the world's two largest economies was set to deepen in January.

The Nasdaq and the S&P 500 climbed more than 1% apiece.

"A truce is definitely better than an escalation of hostilities," Kit Juckes, strategist at Societe Generale, wrote to clients on Monday.​

So now we'll see if China upholds their part of the truce. Will they actually buy American products...especially agricultural products...to reduce our trade deficit? Will they actually engage in serious negotiations on various topics?

If not, guess what...the trade war continues...and intensifies.

Their choice.
 

TheParser

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
7,732
Reaction score
2,932
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The "experts" tell us that the Chinese take the long view of everything.

President Xi may be in office forever, so he can be patient.

He knows that President Trump will be out of office in 2020 -- or (if his many enemies have their way) even in 2019!

Then President Xi knows that the new Democratic president will be easier to handle. So he just smiles and waits.
 

bearpoker

aspiring cat lady
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
17,249
Reaction score
10,057
Location
Tennessee
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Trade wars are so easy to win that we just called a truce. :lol:

Dow surges 400 points on US-China trade ceasefire

The ceasefire between the United States and China has set off a huge celebration on Wall Street.

The Dow soared about 400 points at Monday's opening bell after China and the United States reached a temporary trade truce. It's a big relief because the damaging trade war between the world's two largest economies was set to deepen in January.

The Nasdaq and the S&P 500 climbed more than 1% apiece.

"A truce is definitely better than an escalation of hostilities," Kit Juckes, strategist at Societe Generale, wrote to clients on Monday.​

So now now things will get worse at a slower rate. Yippee!
 

americanwoman

dangerously addictive
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
28,437
Reaction score
22,375
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
So now we'll see if China upholds their part of the truce. Will they actually buy American products...especially agricultural products...to reduce our trade deficit? Will they actually engage in serious negotiations on various topics?

If not, guess what...the trade war continues...and intensifies.

Their choice.

What do you mean actually buy US agriculture? China bought 19.6 billion in 2017 and was our #2 export market.... that's why WE had to bailout our own farmers because WE were interfering with that.

https://www.fas.usda.gov/regions/china
 

sangha

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
67,218
Reaction score
28,524
Location
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So now we'll see if China upholds their part of the truce. Will they actually buy American products...especially agricultural products...to reduce our trade deficit? Will they actually engage in serious negotiations on various topics?

If not, guess what...the trade war continues...and intensifies.

Their choice.

Since the US-China trade deficit has increased since Trump enacted tariffs, I suspect they will choose to continue

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...000-us-china-trade-deficit-set-january-record
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
What do you mean actually buy US agriculture? China bought 19.6 billion in 2017 and was our #2 export market.... that's why WE had to bailout our own farmers because WE were interfering with that.

https://www.fas.usda.gov/regions/china

I am speaking of one of the conditions in their agreement.

On Trade, President Trump has agreed that on January 1, 2019, he will leave the tariffs on $200 billion worth of product at the 10% rate, and not raise it to 25% at this time. China will agree to purchase a not yet agreed upon, but very substantial, amount of agricultural, energy, industrial, and other product from the United States to reduce the trade imbalance between our two countries. China has agreed to start purchasing agricultural product from our farmers immediately.

President Trump and President Xi have agreed to immediately begin negotiations on structural changes with respect to forced technology transfer, intellectual property protection, non-tariff barriers, cyber intrusions and cyber theft, services and agriculture. Both parties agree that they will endeavor to have this transaction completed within the next 90 days. If at the end of this period of time, the parties are unable to reach an agreement, the 10% tariffs will be raised to 25%.

https://publicpool.kinja.com/subject-statement-from-the-press-secretary-regarding-t-1830800077
 

OldFatGuy

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
13,794
Reaction score
7,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
What do you mean actually buy US agriculture? China bought 19.6 billion in 2017 and was our #2 export market.... that's why WE had to bailout our own farmers because WE were interfering with that.

https://www.fas.usda.gov/regions/china

Put the data in another perspective, China has 1.3 billion people. 300 million or so in their middle class. That still leaves 800 million or so to feed. Food China cannot produce on its own. When examining actual food exports from the US, most if not all is from the big farm companies, not the small ones. In other words, the biggest corporate entities, not the small farmer. We bailed out Conagra not John and Jane Doe with their 10 head of cattle, a couple of acres of vegetables, and so on. The single largest beneficiary of US largess was Dole, the largest fruit company in the world, from whom China buys nothing.
 

OldFatGuy

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
13,794
Reaction score
7,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other

sangha

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
67,218
Reaction score
28,524
Location
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
What tariffs? The tariffs in question were proposed for Jan 1 2019. The current agreement places the enactment date on hold, they therefore do not exist.

The ones Trump has threatened to increase from 10 percent to 25
 

OlNate

Shameless Canuck
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
20,496
Reaction score
11,760
Location
Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
So now we'll see if China upholds their part of the truce. Will they actually buy American products...especially agricultural products...to reduce our trade deficit? Will they actually engage in serious negotiations on various topics?

If not, guess what...the trade war continues...and intensifies.

Their choice.


:lamo

Seriously...do you think if that were an option, this cease fire would be taking place at all?

In the meantime another of my predictions comes true. Trump back peddled from all his anti-Canadian tough guy nonsense, now he's backing peddling from all his anti-China tough guy nonsense, and we go back to a world that looks remarkably like the one Obama left us. Proof: the only specifics are from the American side to simmer down on the tariffs. Everything else is TBD.

How bout dat.

:)
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
:lamo

Seriously...do you think if that were an option, this cease fire would be taking place at all?

It was written into the agreement that both parties signed.

Both parties agree that they will endeavor to have this transaction completed within the next 90 days. If at the end of this period of time, the parties are unable to reach an agreement, the 10% tariffs will be raised to 25%.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...om-the-press-secretary-regarding-t-1830800077

In the meantime another of my predictions comes true. Trump back peddled from all his anti-Canadian tough guy nonsense, now he's backing peddling from all his anti-China tough guy nonsense, and we go back to a world that looks remarkably like the one Obama left us. Proof: the only specifics are from the American side to simmer down on the tariffs. Everything else is TBD.

How bout dat.

:)

Negotiations is a game of give and take. Trump isn't backpedaling. He's giving China a chance. If they choose not to engage in faithful negotiation, he raises tariffs.

And this is a far cry from the world Obama left us. China ignored Obama. They may be trying their best to play Trump, but they certainly aren't ignoring him.
 

OlNate

Shameless Canuck
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
20,496
Reaction score
11,760
Location
Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
It was written into the agreement that both parties signed.





Negotiations is a game of give and take. Trump isn't backpedaling. He's giving China a chance. If they choose not to engage in faithful negotiation, he raises tariffs.

And this is a far cry from the world Obama left us. China ignored Obama. They may be trying their best to play Trump, but they certainly aren't ignoring him.

Oh, I have no doubt that they are playing him. He is easily played, which is why we see all the villains crawling out of the woodwork.

China is no dummy. They know exactly the power they wield, the investments they have, and the investments you guys have made in them. If Trump isn't willing to rock the boat with Saudi Arabia over $10billion and 600,000 jobs, what do you think he's going to do about China?? lol...

But at least you seem to be enjoying the show, so that's cool - just don't forget it's all theatre. :)
 

OldFatGuy

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
13,794
Reaction score
7,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The ones Trump has threatened to increase from 10 percent to 25

Hasn't happened, doesn't seem like it will happen, therefore they don't exist.
 

sangha

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
67,218
Reaction score
28,524
Location
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Hasn't happened, doesn't seem like it will happen, therefore they don't exist.

Maybe in Trumpworld, Trump is threatening to increase tarrifs that do not exist, but in the real world they do

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_tariffs

The Trump tariffs are a series of tariffs imposed during the presidency of Donald Trump as part of his economic policy. In January 2018, Trump imposed tariffs on solar panels and washing machines of 30 to 50 percent.[SUP][1][/SUP] Later the same year he imposed tariffs on steel (25%) and aluminum (10%) from most countries.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] On June 1, 2018, this was extended on the European Union, Canada, and Mexico.[SUP][3][/SUP] The only countries which remain exempted from the steel and aluminum tariffs are Australia and Argentina.[SUP][4][/SUP] Separately, on July 6, the Trump administration set a tariff of 25% on 800 categories of goods imported from China worth $50 billion.[SUP][5][/SUP]
 

OldFatGuy

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
13,794
Reaction score
7,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
:lamo

Seriously...do you think if that were an option, this cease fire would be taking place at all?

In the meantime another of my predictions comes true. Trump back peddled from all his anti-Canadian tough guy nonsense, now he's backing peddling from all his anti-China tough guy nonsense, and we go back to a world that looks remarkably like the one Obama left us. Proof: the only specifics are from the American side to simmer down on the tariffs. Everything else is TBD.

How bout dat.

:)

There is no ceasefire. The Canadian and Mexican trade agreements are entirely compliant with Trump's demands. One should read the agreements before opening one's mouth.

How bout dat?
 

OldFatGuy

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
13,794
Reaction score
7,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Oh, I have no doubt that they are playing him. He is easily played, which is why we see all the villains crawling out of the woodwork.

China is no dummy. They know exactly the power they wield, the investments they have, and the investments you guys have made in them. If Trump isn't willing to rock the boat with Saudi Arabia over $10billion and 600,000 jobs, what do you think he's going to do about China?? lol...

But at least you seem to be enjoying the show, so that's cool - just don't forget it's all theatre. :)

China is not a single homogenized entity, like most countries, different forces pull in multiple directions. Simplistic analysis are useless, as they are here.

Case in point, days before the current stock market correction, multiple analysts were touting Apple. A week later they once again claimed they all knew Apple was doomed. As Apple equity prices plunged there were no shortage of buyers, myself included. A delightful buying opportunity. Now watch Apple increase to an even higher value, without the same over exuberance, with greater strength. And the Apple news turns positive. Just an example of what you don't understand.

Saturday morning there was a meeting between Po Ing Lee, Walter Stern, Delia Moronita, Chan Si Wei, Alex Dohem. Who are they? Why was this meeting important? How come you never heard these names before, and why are none them mentioned more than once or twice on the entire net? Which one works for Trump since his ascending the Presidency Which one is a Go master unbeatable by Big Blue's latest heavy iron?

No, it is not all theater, it is all money and power.
 

OlNate

Shameless Canuck
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
20,496
Reaction score
11,760
Location
Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
There is no ceasefire. The Canadian and Mexican trade agreements are entirely compliant with Trump's demands. One should read the agreements before opening one's mouth.

How bout dat?

:lamo

Missed you, OFG. I mean, you still don't know what you're talking about, but I did miss you...

4% of Canada's milk market is compliant with Trump's demands for total access, huh.... lol...

I like you, you're adorable.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,749
Reaction score
29,887
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Oh, I have no doubt that they are playing him. He is easily played, which is why we see all the villains crawling out of the woodwork.

China is no dummy. They know exactly the power they wield, the investments they have, and the investments you guys have made in them. If Trump isn't willing to rock the boat with Saudi Arabia over $10billion and 600,000 jobs, what do you think he's going to do about China?? lol...

But at least you seem to be enjoying the show, so that's cool - just don't forget it's all theatre. :)

I think you are butt-hurt because Trump forced your leader to do something y'all didn't want him to do.
 

OldFatGuy

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
13,794
Reaction score
7,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
:lamo

Missed you, OFG. I mean, you still don't know what you're talking about, but I did miss you...

4% of Canada's milk market is compliant with Trump's demands for total access, huh.... lol...

I like you, you're adorable.

Read the agreement. It doesn't mention milk. It is all about mining and oil. Didn't miss you at all, and you are not entertaining.
 
Top Bottom