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Torrenting Movies and games: Theft or no?

Is torrenting/file sharing theft?


  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .

Harshaw

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Well, play a good song then.

It aint charity, it's the entire basis of consumerism. Have something I want? I'll pay for it. Have great service? I'll pay a premium for that. Got ****? **** off. Not going to buy it. If curiosity gets the better of me, I may pirate it.

Don't like it? Then your product likely sucks.

But it IS charity, because you're like "yeah, I feel like throwing these kids a bone." You're not thinking "I'm buying something here, so of course I have to pay."
 

Henrin

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No, you're sharing their labor. If you bought a copy, you bought ONE copy, and on your own terms, you keep that copy. You don't part with your property. You only part with someone else's work.

You already said you take things without paying for them because you don't wan to pay for them. But you never did answer why you'd also want to make copies and distribute them.

Sigh. Everything in which the product I bought contains is mine and when I provide people copies of it all I am doing is providing copies of my property.

They also already sold me their work and their labor and I can do whatever I please with the consequences of that.
 

Harshaw

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I can find it. Everything is out there if you know where to look. It's just less convenient to buy it than it is to go looking.

So if it were easily available for free, you wouldn't pay for it, correct?

If not correct, why?
 

Ikari

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But it IS charity, because you're like "yeah, I feel like throwing these kids a bone." You're not thinking "I'm buying something here, so of course I have to pay."

OK, whatever then. Play me a good song, get paid. Offer up crap, get nothing. That's it. I ain't going to pay for subpar products.
 

Harshaw

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Sigh. Everything in which the product I bought contains is mine and when I provide people copies of it all I am doing is providing copies of my property.

No. Your "property" entails ONE (1) copy.

They also already sold me their work and their labor and I can do whatever I please with the consequences of that.

With that ONE (1) copy, yes. That was already covered. If you want to sell it, sell it. But if you're selling copies, you're not selling your property.
 

Cephus

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So if it were easily available for free, you wouldn't pay for it, correct?

If not correct, why?

I'd still buy it, I'm a collector. I want the commercial versions. Oh, I'm sure you'll make some kind of ridiculous excuse for why I wouldn't, we all see what you're doing, but that's reality. Deal with it.
 

Henrin

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No. Your "property" entails ONE (1) copy.

And everything that is included in that copy. When I buy apples do I own the seeds? Yes. So when I buy a CD I own the data that it contains.

With that ONE (1) copy, yes. That was already covered. If you want to sell it, sell it. But if you're selling copies, you're not selling your property.

Wait..

Isn't this entire line of reasoning from you that I'm stealing from the owner? If the owner never sold their copy exactly how does this recent post from you follow?
 

Skeptic Bob

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I used to buy bootlegs and eventually use torrents a lot because it was the most convenient way for me to acquire the media. It really didn't have anything to do with money. I was stationed overseas most of my adult life and often I was in places where it was IMPOSSIBLE to legally acquire something I wanted to watch or listen to. If I wanted to buy a copy of a season of Friends in Cambodia there literally was nowhere I could do it that complied with US copyright laws. So it was download the torrent, buy a bootleg, or don't watch. Hell, Amazon wouldn't even ship DVDs to countries like Cambodia because of the copyright risks. Maybe it was unethical for me to buy those bootlegs but I am comfortable with my actions.

Then things began to change. It became easier and easier to purchase things legally online. Once iTunes came out I would go there first. If I could purchase the media on iTunes I would. If it wasn't available for purchase online then I would resort to torrents or bootlegs.

Nowadays I never use torrents because I can almost always purchase it online and get it conveniently. It is safer, the quality is usually better, and people are paid for their labor. But if you live in a country where they haven't released a season yet and torrents is the only way you can get it, I say go ahead and torrent it. If a media company wants your money then they should make it easy for you to give it to them.
 

NO1

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Sigh. Everything in which the product I bought contains is mine and when I provide people copies of it all I am doing is providing copies of my property.

They also already sold me their work and their labor and I can do whatever I please with the consequences of that.

What about copyright?
 

Harshaw

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I'd still buy it, I'm a collector. I want the commercial versions. Oh, I'm sure you'll make some kind of ridiculous excuse for why I wouldn't, we all see what you're doing, but that's reality. Deal with it.

No, I'm actually illustrating that you're only willing to pay for it when it's not something you can get for free. What you say you want isn't available for free.

Are you going to tell me that if someone offered you free, brand new copies of the commercial versions you collect, you're going to say "no, I'll just buy it off Amazon"?
 

Cephus

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No, I'm actually illustrating that you're only willing to pay for it when it's not something you can get for free. What you say you want isn't available for free.

Are you going to tell me that if someone offered you free, brand new copies of the commercial versions you collect, you're going to say "no, I'll just buy it off Amazon"?

Except I've already said otherwise and you're choosing to ignore that part. And yes, I am going to buy it off Amazon because I WANT TO OWN THE COMMERCIAL COPIES! That's what collectors do. That's like saying that someone who wants to own the Mona Lisa is going to be satisfied with a picture they could download off the Internet.

You can't be that dense.
 

Harshaw

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And everything that is included in that copy.

The right to copy it is not included.

When I buy apples do I own the seeds? Yes. So when I buy a CD I own the data that it contains.

You own one copy.


Wait..

Isn't this entire line of reasoning from you that I'm stealing from the owner? If the owner never sold their copy exactly how does this recent post from you follow?

Dude, you're the one who said you are taking a thing of value because you don't want to pay for it.

That is thievery, on your own terms.

Deal with it. You're a thief. You take things because you don't want to pay.
 

Harshaw

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Except I've already said otherwise and you're choosing to ignore that part. And yes, I am going to buy it off Amazon because I WANT TO OWN THE COMMERCIAL COPIES! That's what collectors do. That's like saying that someone who wants to own the Mona Lisa is going to be satisfied with a picture they could download off the Internet.

You can't be that dense.

You're telling me that if you want a copy of "Interstellar," and someone has a commercial copy of it, new, in shrinkwrap, and offers to give it to you for free, you're going to refuse it and say "no, I'll go buy it"?

That's what I asked you.
 

Ikari

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No, I'm actually illustrating that you're only willing to pay for it when it's not something you can get for free. What you say you want isn't available for free.

Are you going to tell me that if someone offered you free, brand new copies of the commercial versions you collect, you're going to say "no, I'll just buy it off Amazon"?

Is there a torrent robot walking around physically handing copies of things to people? lol

People are buying things and you're still having a conniption fit because they aren't purchasing it in the manner you want them to.

End of the day, if you make a quality product with quality service, you're going to get paid. If you notice that you aren't getting paid and people are pirating your crap on some huge, aggregate level...there is something wrong on your end.

Play a good song, or GTFO.
 

Cephus

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You're telling me that if you want a copy of "Interstellar," and someone has a commercial copy of it, new, in shrinkwrap, and offers to give it to you for free, you're going to refuse it and say "no, I'll go buy it"?

That's what I asked you.

I already own it, thanks. There's a reason I average 3-4 packages from Amazon a week.
 

Cephus

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Is there a torrent robot walking around physically handing copies of things to people? lol

People are buying things and you're still having a conniption fit because they aren't purchasing it in the manner you want them to.

End of the day, if you make a quality product with quality service, you're going to get paid. If you notice that you aren't getting paid and people are pirating your crap on some huge, aggregate level...there is something wrong on your end.

Play a good song, or GTFO.

That's pretty much it. I download 100% of the TV I watch. I pirate it all. And those shows that are actually good and worth owning, which is a considerable number, I buy the season box sets when they come out. I don't have to, I've seen them all, but I still do.

But I'm sure he'll try to come up with some excuse why I wouldn't actually do what I do.
 

Harshaw

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Is there a torrent robot walking around physically handing copies of things to people? lol

People are buying things and you're still having a conniption fit because they aren't purchasing it in the manner you want them to.

No, I'm describing the nature of what they're doing.

If you notice that you aren't getting paid and people are pirating your crap on some huge, aggregate level...there is something wrong on your end.

That's . . . stupid.

Tons of people want something, and the "problem" is on the end of the person who created what all these people want?
 

americanwoman

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The right to copy it is not included.



You own one copy.




Dude, you're the one who said you are taking a thing of value because you don't want to pay for it.

That is thievery, on your own terms.

Deal with it. You're a thief. You take things because you don't want to pay.

Back in the day did you ever record a song off the radio onto a tape or a movie on a vhs that was on tv?
 

Ikari

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That's pretty much it. I download 100% of the TV I watch. I pirate it all. And those shows that are actually good and worth owning, which is a considerable number, I buy the season box sets when they come out. I don't have to, I've seen them all, but I still do.

But I'm sure he'll try to come up with some excuse why I wouldn't actually do what I do.

Oh, well that's just charity.

lol
 

Harshaw

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I already own it, thanks. There's a reason I average 3-4 packages from Amazon a week.

See, now you're running from the question.

I didn't ask you about someone offering something you already own. "Interstellar" was obviously just an example. (And you call ME "dense".)

I'm asking you about someone offering you something for free, something that you say you want, a brand new commercial copy, that you don't already own.

OF COURSE you'll take it instead of buying it.
 

clownboy

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I think most folks deep down know it's stealing. But most folks take less of a dim view of stealing from the rich. Especially when the movie, game makers are pulling in hundreds of millions profit from the project.

Add to this, it's a bit like a loss leader in retail. The folks who torrent the movie/game and like it are likely to tell their friends, most of whom will then buy the movie/game or go to see it in theatres with a big screen and killer sound. Heck, I know quite a few folks who would never set foot in a movie theatre, but will buy the movie once they see something they like on the torrent copy.
 

Ikari

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That's . . . stupid.

Tons of people want something, and the "problem" is on the end of the person who created what all these people want?

It's not "stupid". If you have a quality product with quality service, you will get paid. If you don't, you won't.

End of story

A lot of the crying and carrying on is that some people put out crap and lots of people then go around them so they don't have to pay the over inflated price for that crap. If you offer crap, you get crap. Fundamental of capitalism. If people are stealing your IP on high levels, you've done something wrong, it's likely quality, service, or pricing that's the matter. Adjust or die out.
 

Harshaw

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Back in the day did you ever record a song off the radio onto a tape or a movie on a vhs that was on tv?

Of course I did. I also pirated every Commodore 64 game I could get my hands on.

But I have no illusions about what it was, and I know it was thievery. I'm not the slightest bit proud of it.
 

clownboy

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Back in the day did you ever record a song off the radio onto a tape or a movie on a vhs that was on tv?

The difference is those songs and movies were publically broadcast.
 

Cephus

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See, now you're running from the question.

I didn't ask you about someone offering something you already own. "Interstellar" was obviously just an example. (And you call ME "dense".)

I'm asking you about someone offering you something for free, something that you say you want, a brand new commercial copy, that you don't already own.

OF COURSE you'll take it instead of buying it.

How many times do I have to tell you that you're wrong and you keep ignoring me? Stop being ridiculous.
 
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