• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Toledo Nazi Riots

aquapub

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
7,317
Reaction score
344
Location
America (A.K.A., a red state)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
A handful of Nazis demonstrated for white unity in a Toledo ghetto and blacks there chose to get violent. After the Nazis were asked by the police to leave, they promptly did. Then the blacks began attacking the cops.


If this would have been Louis Farakhan's racist movement demonstrating in a white neighborhood and whites attacked them (which would never happen) it would be automatically considered a hate crime.

Am I the only one that sees double standards in race relations in this country and wants ACTUAL equality?
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Stop trying to make it seem like the nazis are innocent. They were doing that there for the specific reason to provoke violence. It was obviously intended on their part.

Also, those blacks that you mentioned were gang members so generalizing and saying that the "blacks" attacked the police is a bit over the top.
 

Stinger

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
15,097
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
FinnMacCool said:
Stop trying to make it seem like the nazis are innocent.
Did they commit a violent act? Were they excersizing their rights?

They were doing that there for the specific reason to provoke violence. It was obviously intended on their part.
They would have been happy to protest as they originally wanted to. And do you think they had a valid right to protest against the crimes being committed against the white population there?

Also, those blacks that you mentioned were gang members so generalizing and saying that the "blacks" attacked the police is a bit over the top.
I understand there were over 600 people involved in this rioting. So many they couldn't arrest them all. Seems like alot of people in gangs. But so what? That excuses it? Has the community come forth to help the police identify and arrest all the people involved? Have the community leaders come out and called for anyone with information to bring it forth? Have the condemned those who attacked the police and medical teams?

No
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Dude we're talking about ****ing nazis here. This doesn't really require indepth analyis. The nazis, excercising their freedom to do a little racist parade of theirs pissed people off and instigated a riot which is, of course, what they had originally hoped to achieve. Just because the people there went crazy doesn't mean that its their fault cause it would be enough to get me pissed off too.
 

debate_junkie

Worst Nightmare
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
19
Location
Pennsylvania
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
FinnMacCool said:
Dude we're talking about ****ing nazis here. This doesn't really require indepth analyis. The nazis, excercising their freedom to do a little racist parade of theirs pissed people off and instigated a riot which is, of course, what they had originally hoped to achieve. Just because the people there went crazy doesn't mean that its their fault cause it would be enough to get me pissed off too.
Well if you get pissed off enough to riot, because of some idiot racist group, then I'd say you have a few issues to deal with. Neo Nazi's are laughable at best, BUT they do have the right to protest. Regardless of whether you, I, or the City of Toledo agree with their views. The black community, which is predominantly responsible for the lack of policing (and by policing I say there are NOT enough willing to HELP the police clean up their communities) has no right to get violent just because they got called on the carpet. I don't care who it is, Louis Farrakhan or the KKK... they have the right to speak. And protesters have the RIGHT to not listen, but what they dont have is the right to riot, even if they don't like what's being said.

I could care less of the racist views of Farrakhan, Nazi's, the KKK, the Skinheads.. you name em. Those types of people are what I lovingly refer to as "Point and laugh". I see em, I point at em, and I laugh at em. Basically, all the black community in the city of Toledo did, was affirm the notions these Nazi's already preach about them. "All they can do is get violent, because they're......." And the blacks just proved that they cannot rise beyond stereotypes, though they claim to despise them.
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
the Skinheads
Hey skinheads aren't all racist dude. In fact most of them aren't.

But I never said I would riot. I honestly believe that people used neo nazis as an excuse to beat each other up. Were they even punching nazis? I don't think so.
 

Wyldinstinct

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
FinnMacCool said:
Dude we're talking about ****ing nazis here. This doesn't really require indepth analyis. The nazis, excercising their freedom to do a little racist parade of theirs pissed people off and instigated a riot which is, of course, what they had originally hoped to achieve. Just because the people there went crazy doesn't mean that its their fault cause it would be enough to get me pissed off too.
:agree well said, Finn

Yeah. Pretty messed-up thing to say "blacks there chose to get violent". Maybe gang members chose to get violent, but don't go generalizing blacks. There are plenty 'o white folks in gangs in gangs, and who could forget those wacky Yakuza?
 

George_Washington

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
1,962
Reaction score
0
Location
United States of America and proud of it!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Bill O'Reilly just got done talking about the riots. He also felt that the blacks in Toledo were stupid as hell for rioting and I firmly agree with him. There were only 14 Nazis there to begin with, sheesh. O'Reilly had on this idiot black leader of this Black Panther group (obviously a white hating group) who thought they had a right to riot. Completely ridiculous.

Thank God we have people like Bill O'Reilly to combat stupid riot situations like this.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
1,670
Reaction score
17
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
George_Washington said:
Bill O'Reilly just got done talking about the riots. He also felt that the blacks in Toledo were stupid as hell for rioting and I firmly agree with him. There were only 14 Nazis there to begin with, sheesh. O'Reilly had on this idiot black leader of this Black Panther group (obviously a white hating group) who thought they had a right to riot. Completely ridiculous.

Thank God we have people like Bill O'Reilly to combat stupid riot situations like this.

Agreed. It seems that most inner city blacks will use just about anything as an excuse to loot, burn, and attack white people.
 

Wyldinstinct

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Agreed. It seems that most inner city blacks will use just about anything as an excuse to loot, burn, and attack white people.
And it seems most ignorant people will use just about anything as an excuse to segregate people by race.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
1,670
Reaction score
17
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Wyldinstinct said:
And it seems most ignorant people will use just about anything as an excuse to segregate people by race.
And it seems that you have never experianced a riot so it is you who is ignorant. I was in downtown Cincinnati when the riots started and the blacks looted, burned down historical buildings and buisinesses, attacked city hall, pulled white women out of their cars and beat them, attacked other white people and their cars, broke into the city armoury (thankfully it was empty), roamed the streets freely wielding guns and knifes, shot at police, etc. And what did the mayor do? He refused to call in the national guard and left town. He gave those criminals a free pass and left us to fend for ourselves. The blacks segregate themselves now and the politicians favor them and let them get away with criminal behavior. In my opinion, second class citizenship is given to white people these days because every politician is afriad that Jesse Jackson, the Black Panthers, and the NAACP will label them as racists and incite a riot.
 
Last edited:

debate_junkie

Worst Nightmare
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
919
Reaction score
19
Location
Pennsylvania
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Wyldinstinct said:
And it seems most ignorant people will use just about anything as an excuse to segregate people by race.
Ok, ok, let's take all of these comments in context. First generalizing a race of people, based on the actions of 600, is not right. BUT, when the members of this 600+ race choose not to speak against the actions of said 600, wouldn't their silence be condoning such behavior? I can see how many people viewing this would become insensed enough to generalize when people within that said community are verbally condoning, and silently condoning the action.

Now, having said that. Some on this thread want me to believe that the 600+ that rioted were provoked by the Nazi's. Which begs me to ask this question, when Los Angeles burned, who provoked them? You can't tell me that a verdict in a courtroom was justifiable provocation for a city to burn. I do wait response to this question.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,603
Reaction score
26,254
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Agreed. It seems that most inner city blacks will use just about anything as an excuse to loot, burn, and attack white people.
Yea. Blacks will do anything to start trouble. They will get angry for absolutely no reason at all. I mean, just because a group which supports their elimination comes into their own neighborhood for a rally, is no excuse to be angry at them. After all, historically, the Nazis have always loved the blacks just as much as members of their own family. Right? Give it a rest. I would not have felt bad for the Nazis if some of them had been shot in the process of spewing their hatred towards non-whites.

Oh wait, what you are really saying is that the Nazis have a Constitutional right to demonstrate wherever they wish, right? OK, then lets let them demonstrate in Skokie Illinois, where there are residents still alive who remember Hitler's ovens. Would that satisfy you?

Or how about this? The Constitution does not give anyone a right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, or to go into a neighborhood in which they do NOT even live, knowing damn well that their presence there could possibly cause a riot. Whoever granted the Nazis the permit is a lunatic.
 

George_Washington

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
1,962
Reaction score
0
Location
United States of America and proud of it!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
danarhea said:
Yea. Blacks will do anything to start trouble. They will get angry for absolutely no reason at all. I mean, just because a group which supports their elimination comes into their own neighborhood for a rally, is no excuse to be angry at them. After all, historically, the Nazis have always loved the blacks just as much as members of their own family. Right? Give it a rest. I would not have felt bad for the Nazis if some of them had been shot in the process of spewing their hatred towards non-whites.

Oh wait, what you are really saying is that the Nazis have a Constitutional right to demonstrate wherever they wish, right? OK, then lets let them demonstrate in Skokie Illinois, where there are residents still alive who remember Hitler's ovens. Would that satisfy you?

Or how about this? The Constitution does not give anyone a right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, or to go into a neighborhood in which they do NOT even live, knowing damn well that their presence there could possibly cause a riot. Whoever granted the Nazis the permit is a lunatic.
Excuse me but did you watch the O'Reilly Factor tonight? They had this black panther guy on that refused to admit what his people did were wrong.

Nobody's saying that the Nazis were right to go into that neighborhood but if the government gave them a permit then the people should have respected the government's judgement. Rioting is completely uncivilized. What is this,
13th century Mongolia ??

I dislike Nazis as much as anyone but the civilized thing to do would have been for the blacks just to go file a complaint with the government; NOT go destroy property that had NOTHING to do with the Nazis.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
1,670
Reaction score
17
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
danarhea said:
Yea. Blacks will do anything to start trouble. They will get angry for absolutely no reason at all. I mean, just because a group which supports their elimination comes into their own neighborhood for a rally, is no excuse to be angry at them. After all, historically, the Nazis have always loved the blacks just as much as members of their own family. Right? Give it a rest. I would not have felt bad for the Nazis if some of them had been shot in the process of spewing their hatred towards non-whites.
Get your facts straight. Not 1 Nazi demonstrator was attacked and none of the Nazis are cited as invoking violence. The blacks attacked the police, medical workers, started looting, breaking into houses, and burning houses and buisinesses.

danarhea said:
Oh wait, what you are really saying is that the Nazis have a Constitutional right to demonstrate wherever they wish, right? OK, then lets let them demonstrate in Skokie Illinois, where there are residents still alive who remember Hitler's ovens. Would that satisfy you?
They have a right to demonstrate anywhere they choose as long as it is peaceful and the police have a responsibility to protect them.

danarhea said:
Or how about this? The Constitution does not give anyone a right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, or to go into a neighborhood in which they do NOT even live, knowing damn well that their presence there could possibly cause a riot. Whoever granted the Nazis the permit is a lunatic.
By your logic the blacks never should have marched on D.C. and a white person shouldn't be allowed to drive through a dominantly black neighborhood.
 

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,329
Reaction score
2,432
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
danarhea said:
Whoever granted the Nazis the permit is a lunatic.
source
I read they were refused a permit but there were only 14 of em so they were not exactly blocking traffic.


"The group said it did not seek a permit, because it didn't ask for "special accommodations.""


If anyone was egging on people it was "About 20 members from both the International Socialists Organization and One People's Project showed up, and some handed eggs to African-American residents to throw at the Nazi marchers, White said."


The nazis are silly but they played Toledo like a cheap guitar anyway.

They only arrested a couple score people but they could have arrested 200.

The community of Toledo would have been much better served if they had gone about their normal day.
 

Stinger

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
15,097
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
FinnMacCool said:
Dude we're talking about ****ing nazis here. This doesn't really require indepth analyis. The nazis, excercising their freedom to do a little racist parade of theirs pissed people off and instigated a riot which is, of course, what they had originally hoped to achieve. Just because the people there went crazy doesn't mean that its their fault cause it would be enough to get me pissed off too.
So if the Black Panthers or Faarakhans army of racist thugs comes marching into a white neighborhood the people who live there are justified in going and burning down black businesses and assualting police and medical units becuase it pisses them off? I mean it wouldn't be their fault by your reasoning.

That is civil behavior in your opinion? We as a society should accept such behavior?
 

Stinger

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
15,097
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Wyldinstinct said:
:agree well said, Finn

Yeah. Pretty messed-up thing to say "blacks there chose to get violent". Maybe gang members chose to get violent, but don't go generalizing blacks. There are plenty 'o white folks in gangs in gangs, and who could forget those wacky Yakuza?
It went far beyond gangs, the count was well over 600 people rioting and looting. And what has the community done to stop it?

Making excuses will never solve the problem.
 

Stinger

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
15,097
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Wyldinstinct said:
And it seems most ignorant people will use just about anything as an excuse to segregate people by race.
It was not a mixed population that was rioting. It seems most ignorant people want to ignore reality.
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Why don't you just come out and say it?

Do you or don't you believe that blacks are prone to violent behavior ? Yes or no?
 

Polish Rob

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Amherst, NH
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
FinnMacCool said:
Dude we're talking about ****ing nazis here. This doesn't really require indepth analyis. The nazis, excercising their freedom to do a little racist parade of theirs pissed people off and instigated a riot which is, of course, what they had originally hoped to achieve. Just because the people there went crazy doesn't mean that its their fault cause it would be enough to get me pissed off too.
I know I'm new here and this is my first post, but you completely ignore the constitution.

So the Nazis went out to do their parade, yes, to instigate rioting. But you know what, those who rioted are at fault, because they did EXACTLY what the Nazi's wanted.

Self control is the one of the greatest virtues, and to be able to determine right from wrong.
 

Stinger

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
15,097
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Welcome to the forum PR!
 

Polish Rob

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
79
Reaction score
0
Location
Amherst, NH
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Wyldinstinct said:
And it seems most ignorant people will use just about anything as an excuse to segregate people by race.
Segregation occurs naturally whether you want to believe it or not. There are some who overcome it, but you look at some schools that are mixed races. They hang out with their races more than others. There are anomalies, but culture segregates itself naturally.
 

Wyldinstinct

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
debate_junkie said:
Ok, ok, let's take all of these comments in context. First generalizing a race of people, based on the actions of 600, is not right. BUT, when the members of this 600+ race choose not to speak against the actions of said 600, wouldn't their silence be condoning such behavior? I can see how many people viewing this would become insensed enough to generalize when people within that said community are verbally condoning, and silently condoning the action.

Now, having said that. Some on this thread want me to believe that the 600+ that rioted were provoked by the Nazi's. Which begs me to ask this question, when Los Angeles burned, who provoked them? You can't tell me that a verdict in a courtroom was justifiable provocation for a city to burn. I do wait response to this question.
Good point. And shame on me for not digging up any info on reactions from the community or prominent black leaders opinions on the riot. While I do think that it would be comendable for the community to come forth and speak out againt the actions of the rioters, I don't think that they should be obligated to. As a caucasion, I certainly don't think that caucasions step forth to denouce every heinous act that members of our race commit. That community probably thinks the same thing that most of us do. Which is to say that the actions of the rioters was wrong, but there is a degree of understanding in their motivation.

How would I react if someone who preached hate and extermination of myself and my children walked into my neighborhood and started preaching? I'd like to think I wouldn't resort to violence, but I still wonder...

As far as the L.A. riots are concerned, again, it was wrong. And there were plenty of individuals of all races that codemed the actions of the rioters (which, by the way, were not all black).

I'm sorry, but there is no argument in the world that can ever convince me that any race is more prone to violence than another. Ignorance, lack of education, and poverty are some of the key factors that lead to violence in any race.
 
Top Bottom