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Tiny carriers.

Fledermaus

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Early this coming April, United States Marine Corps F-35Bs from three squadrons will converge aboard the USS Tripoli (LHA-7) to fully test the 'Lightning Carrier' concept. The idea to basically turn big-deck “Gator Navy” amphibious assault ships into light aircraft carriers packed with F-35Bs first emerged five years ago, but it has its roots in AV-8 Harrier operations going back decades. A whopping 20 F-35Bs will be conducting sustained operations followed by surge operations from the USS Tripoli. The event will test the ability of the Marines to operate two full F-35B squadrons from one ship at one time and could have major impacts on what the stealthy jets, and the ships they deploy on, can bring to the fight in the future

Interesting.
 

uptower

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Most of the smaller countries with carriers have been operating single-squadron ships, usually with harriers: Thailand, Spain, Italy spring to mind. Most of those have a single ship though. For a larger country like the US, with worldwide obligations, it makes some sense to increase flexibility and spread risk by sprinkling smaller carriers about alongside the large ones.
 

Redress

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Early this coming April, United States Marine Corps F-35Bs from three squadrons will converge aboard the USS Tripoli (LHA-7) to fully test the 'Lightning Carrier' concept. The idea to basically turn big-deck “Gator Navy” amphibious assault ships into light aircraft carriers packed with F-35Bs first emerged five years ago, but it has its roots in AV-8 Harrier operations going back decades. A whopping 20 F-35Bs will be conducting sustained operations followed by surge operations from the USS Tripoli. The event will test the ability of the Marines to operate two full F-35B squadrons from one ship at one time and could have major impacts on what the stealthy jets, and the ships they deploy on, can bring to the fight in the future

Interesting.
A few comments.

1: calling them tiny is just wrong. The Tripoli is over 800 feet long, 100 feet wide. It is not as big as a modern CV, but bigger than most other ships.

2: The aircraft are out of Yuma. Even being at sea is better than being at Yuma. I thankfully only spent a week there, but it was a long, hot week spent mostly watching jackrabbits run out by the flightline.

3: Your source says "Meanwhile, VMFA-225 is the latest squadron to transition to the F-35B from the F/A-18D Hornet". Now that is a major transition, from aging, 20 + year old aircraft to cutting edge.

4: Also from your source: "Another thing is that the deck sequence with a large number of airplanes has yet to be tested. We currently recover aircraft on spot seven and nine in the rear of the boat but there is potential, just like we learned with the Harrier, that we need to have a forward and aft landing spot in order to recover and push airplanes to their forward and aft parking spots simultaneously." That is going to be the trick, just from looking at the pictures. Not alot of room(relatively), so you need skilled aircraft handlers(ABs, or yellow shirts) to make things work, and a highly skilled airboss.

5: This all strikes me as a great idea. Power projection is the point of the navy/marines, and 20 F35s that can be forward deployed will help alot.
 

notquiteright

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This has been mentioned from time to time. Convoy or convoy route protection like the 'jeep' carriers of WWII. Big Blue Navy rejects the concept. They argue they get more bang for the buck using 'super' carriers. The cost of maintaining a carrier and its aircraft drops as more are grouped on one ship.

It does seem penny wise pound foolish when you consider the cost of putting a super carrier to sea and the morale of the crew on long voyages to cover vast distances. One can argue you don't need a naval air wing to protect shipping from Somali pirates or risk a super carrier in the Arabian sea.

The Army doesn't rely on maneuver divisions, perhaps the Navy could downsize their carriers and increase coverage with 20-30 aircraft vessels... ✌️
 

Schism

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For a larger country like the US, with worldwide obligations, it makes some sense to increase flexibility and spread risk by sprinkling smaller carriers about alongside the large ones.

I'll put you down for: Supports the Military Industrial Complex. No thanks.

Imagine using all that money for humanitarian relief and migration support.
 

uptower

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I'll put you down for: Supports the Military Industrial Complex. No thanks.

Imagine using all that money for humanitarian relief and migration support.

That would be nice too but this is not a thread on spending. The ships are already built - they're just finding another use for them.
 

Schism

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That would be nice too but this is not a thread on spending. The ships are already built - they're just finding another use for them.

How about humanitarian relief, migration assistance, and pandemic isolation hospitals?

How about ferrying food and medical supplies? How about doing good in the world?
 

Oozlefinch

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A few comments.

1: calling them tiny is just wrong. The Tripoli is over 800 feet long, 100 feet wide. It is not as big as a modern CV, but bigger than most other ships.

This is very true. The America class Amphibious Assault ships are almost the same size as the Essex class carriers of WWII. And have roughly the same displacement as a Midway class "Battle Carrier".

And this is hardly new, simply a rehashing of the old "Escort Carrier" concept.

2: The aircraft are out of Yuma. Even being at sea is better than being at Yuma. I thankfully only spent a week there, but it was a long, hot week spent mostly watching jackrabbits run out by the flightline.

Been there, done that, and I largely agree. Even Fort Bliss was better than MCAS Yuma, and that is saying something.

3: Your source says "Meanwhile, VMFA-225 is the latest squadron to transition to the F-35B from the F/A-18D Hornet". Now that is a major transition, from aging, 20 + year old aircraft to cutting edge.

This I admit puzzles me. Transitioning Hornet pilots to the B series is a head scratcher. As these would be pilots already experienced in CATOBAR operations, I would think transitioning to the C class would make a lot more sense. And moving the old Harrier pilots to the B class. Moving an entire squadron away from Carrier duty and onto amphibs really does make little sense. Unless the unit is scheduled to transition to both B and C class, so they could do both.

4: Also from your source: "Another thing is that the deck sequence with a large number of airplanes has yet to be tested. We currently recover aircraft on spot seven and nine in the rear of the boat but there is potential, just like we learned with the Harrier, that we need to have a forward and aft landing spot in order to recover and push airplanes to their forward and aft parking spots simultaneously." That is going to be the trick, just from looking at the pictures. Not alot of room(relatively), so you need skilled aircraft handlers(ABs, or yellow shirts) to make things work, and a highly skilled airboss.

5: This all strikes me as a great idea. Power projection is the point of the navy/marines, and 20 F35s that can be forward deployed will help alot.

And once again, this is an old concept. Even back when the Amphibious Assault Ships still had well decks, there was a thought that they would ditch most of their Marines and equipment, and act as "Command Centers" for an amphibious landing. With an increased number of fighters and taking on more of a "baby carrier" role. Hell, even the British played with it during the Falkland's War, converting some container ships into carriers. But I can not see the America class or any other Amphibious ships being any real good at Carrier roles. In essence, they would do the job about as well as those "Chinese Carriers" that has so many crapping bananas.

Barely enough deck space and capability to provide much more than a CAP over themselves. And that is the role of their air wing, a minimal CAP at sea, then transitioning to Air to Mud during amphibious operations when most times there will be carrier (or shore based) aircraft on hand to provide the CAP requirements.

Oh, and skimming through many of the articles of Tyler Rogoway largely left me laughing. UFOs, "ghost ships", black helicopters and suicide drones crashing into passenger aircraft. Over half of it seems to be "loony bin" nonsense, and most of the rest is hyping something that is not even a thing. I am just surprised he did not push that these are going to be used for future drone operations, with our super-secret autonomous drones.
 

ttwtt78640

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How about humanitarian relief, migration assistance, and pandemic isolation hospitals?

How about ferrying food and medical supplies? How about doing good in the world?

Stopping bad guys from continuing harm is often step one in doing good. Once that has been accomplished, the rest of the relief efforts mentioned should not require military assistance.
 

Oozlefinch

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How about humanitarian relief, migration assistance, and pandemic isolation hospitals?

How about ferrying food and medical supplies? How about doing good in the world?

They do that all the damned time.

During the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, the USS Mercy (1,000+ bed hospital ship), the USS Bonhomme Richard (Wasp class amphibious ship), as well as the USS Essex and USS Abraham Lincoln carrier group all responded.

Go to almost any major disaster near the coast or on an island, and the Navy if there in short order, along with the Marines. Hurricane Katrina, Haiti earthquake, Loma-Prieta, the list just goes on and on. Major disaster, and the Navy is normally there as soon as it is safe to be there. For most of 2020, the USNS Mercy was in Los Angeles to provide assistance for COVID if it was needed, and the USNS Comfort was in New York, doing the same thing. But guess what? Each ended that mission after a couple of months as neither city needed their help. Over 1,000 beds on the Mercy, and they treated less than 50 people in three months. The Comfort had even less people treated.

But for the rest? That is all nonsense. "Migration assistance"? WTF is that? Do the birds need help flying south for the winter? "Pandemic isolation hospitals"? What, were those some kind of super-secret locations set up next to FEMA camps to hide the mass crematoriums?

Essentially, you are doing the normal. Screaming about things that are actually either already done, or not an issue at all.
 

Oozlefinch

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Stopping bad guys from continuing harm is often step one in doing good.

You mean, like trying to stabilize Somalia? Which has been a hell-hole for decades, but even the UN stopped trying to secure it as it is a lost cause. Or Ethiopia, which was home of one of the largest man=made famines in history. Millions starved, because their own government wanted them to starve. Then laughed as the world gave them millions of tons of free food. Which they happily took, and still starved their own people.
 
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