Time To Tackle Trump's Trade Tariffs?

[grip]

Then produce something people actually want.

Manufacturers will not pay American labor costs, by choice, as long as there is cheaper outsourcing.

 

[Gatsby]

All tariffs should be repealed, except those that exist for national security reasons. Tariffs are never economically beneficial, especially for a rich country like the United States.

With that said, we should be looking to divest ourselves from China as much as possible for non-economic reasons. Especially when it comes to their IT sector.

 

[wist43]

Dont be dense

Wages have been shown to be increasing in China. Manufacturing wages in China now are approx $1000 USD a month. Chinese workers are free to quit one job and find others.

Oy vey...

Don't be dense.

Whose wages?? And who's saying that?? The cartel of labor exploitation?? The ever reliable CCP??

My wife is Filipino. She worked in a factory for a while about 25 years ago. Her "official" wage was about $60/day, her actual wage was $12/day for a 12 hour shift - 1 half hour lunch, no breaks.

Tech, and executive level people are getting wealthy in China, same as everywhere, but only because the CCP is allowing it; and, manufacturing laborers are near slave labor - and all labor costs are not driven by markets and demand, they are controlled by the state.

Get a clue dude. The CCP is a brutal dictatorship with no rule of law.

"Don't be dense".

 

[wist43]

All tariffs should be repealed, except those that exist for national security reasons. Tariffs are never economically beneficial, especially for a rich country like the United States.

With that said, we should be looking to divest ourselves from China as much as possible for non-economic reasons. Especially when it comes to their IT sector.

That's nonsense.

Tariffs are a tool that can be used to level the playing field in any number of areas to protect the nation's interests, as well as those of the workers.

"Free trade" is a lie.

All those millions of Americans that used to make a living working in factories?? They're now working at Kwik Trip, on welfare, unemployed, or just playing video games in mom's basement high on meth.

America is dying. By every metric, America is dying.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Oy vey...

Don't be dense.

Whose wages?? And who's saying that?? The cartel of labor exploitation?? The ever reliable CCP??

My wife is Filipino. She worked in a factory for a while about 25 years ago. Her "official" wage was about $60/day, her actual wage was $12/day for a 12 hour shift - 1 half hour lunch, no breaks.

Tech, and executive level people are getting wealthy in China, same as everywhere, but only because the CCP is allowing it; and, manufacturing laborers are near slave labor - and all labor costs are not driven by markets and demand, they are controlled by the state.

Get a clue dude. The CCP is a brutal dictatorship with no rule of law.

"Don't be dense".

Your Filipino wife I expect worked in a factory in the Philippines not China as a proxy for China does not really work now does it

Chinese workers can and do quit jobs regularly. Eastern China has a shortage of workers. At the thousands of factories in eastern China no is being forced to work, other than the requirement for money

 

[wist43]

Your Filipino wife I expect worked in a factory in the Philippines not China as a proxy for China does not really work now does it

Chinese workers can and do quit jobs regularly. Eastern China has a shortage of workers. At the thousands of factories in eastern China no is being forced to work, other than the requirement for money

Well, you just keep defending China and the corporations.

Move to China... it's the future

 

[antiquity]

No.

Why do you outsource your clothing by buying shirts and pants from other people?

If you make your own shirts and pants you'll give yourself another job, but you will make yourself worse off, because it's smart to buy something from somebody else if doing so is cheaper than making it yourself.

If some other country can make a product cheaper than Americans can make it, then it's smart to buy it from them.

Most of your post is nonsense....I will give you a perfect example: Nike used to make shoes in the US, in Oregon if my memory is correct, but moved them to Asian countries because they could hire workers cheaper and make a bigger profit...but did that lower production cost help lower prices for the American consumers? Nope Nike shoes cost the same as before the move or higher in most cases for the American consumer. Who came out in this move by Nike....of course Nike.
If a conflict broke out (either war or a trade dispute) with a country that make our products what do you think happen? We get cut back or worst cut off.....take prescription drugs that the American consumers relay on....did you know that about 80% or our drugs come from an Asia country? The vast majority of electronic come from Asia countries? None of those products would cost less if produced in the US. Why because of competition between manufacturers. To the corporations it all about profit and paying a couple dollars an hour to someone in Asia over paying a living wage in America and making the up the different is their bottom line at the expense of the American consumer.

 

[antiquity]

It is a fine on the American consumer so how do you figure that? Fines are a form of punishment here last time I checked.

In general, then, Trump’s tariffs have helped some workers and hurt others. Nothing is particularly surprising about this; trade policy almost always has important distributive effects, and any change in trade policy is a choice to benefit some groups at the expense of others. Yet, overall, when economists have attempted to add up the net effect of Trump’s tariffs on jobs, any gains in importing-competing sectors appear to have been more than offset by losses in industries that use imported inputs and face retaliation on their foreign exports. And even those jobs that have been created have come at great cost: studies suggest American consumers paid about $817,000 in higher prices attributable to the tariffs for every job created in the washing machine industry and $900,000 in the steel industry. While policy interventions to support manufacturing jobs may be warranted, there are cheaper ways to do so.

https://www.brookings.edu/policy202...nefit-american-workers-and-national-security/

If that was true why is the Biden administration not removing Trump tariffs.

The US still has tariffs on 66% of Chinese exports​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/china-tariffs-biden-policy/index.htmlhttps:

From CNN to boot.

 

[iguanaman]

If that was true why is the Biden administration not removing Trump tariffs.

The US still has tariffs on 66% of Chinese exports​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/china-tariffs-biden-policy/index.htmlhttps:

From CNN to boot.

Good question. I think it because of China's belligerent behaviors. Taiwan is the latest example. It is not in our best interests to reward China for them. It is unfortunate that American consumers will be punished for it but the precedent has been set. Removing the tariffs while China continues bad mouth us and flex it's muscles in the Pacific would send the wrong message. I don't think the tariffs hurt China nearly as much as was claimed either or they would not be behaving as they are. They don't seem to care a bit.

US and China trade barbs after Blinken warns of need to respect global order or face a 'more violent world'​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/18/politics/blinken-sullivan-china-alaska-meetings/index.html

China isn't about to invade Taiwan. But the two sides are on a dangerous path​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/15/asia/taiwan-invasion-us-china-tensions-intl-dst-hnk/index.html

 

[Gatsby]

All those millions of Americans that used to make a living working in factories?? They're now working at Kwik Trip, on welfare, unemployed, or just playing video games in mom's basement high on meth.

Wrong. Every income quintile in America has been steadily increasing its income, and in recent years the bottom quintiles have been growing faster than the top.

https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/cps/tables/time-series/historical-income-households/h01ar.xlsx

America is dying. By every metric, America is dying.

 

[iguanaman]

Oy vey...

Don't be dense.

Whose wages?? And who's saying that?? The cartel of labor exploitation?? The ever reliable CCP??

My wife is Filipino. She worked in a factory for a while about 25 years ago. Her "official" wage was about $60/day, her actual wage was $12/day for a 12 hour shift - 1 half hour lunch, no breaks.

Tech, and executive level people are getting wealthy in China, same as everywhere, but only because the CCP is allowing it; and, manufacturing laborers are near slave labor - and all labor costs are not driven by markets and demand, they are controlled by the state.

Get a clue dude. The CCP is a brutal dictatorship with no rule of law.

"Don't be dense".

China has the fastest growing middle class in the world because wages are increasing for many. GM sells more cars in China then in the US. Don't forget those facts. Yes China is a dictatorship but they have made a decision to use capitalism to please the people and stay in power. It is working at least so far. They have lifted millions out of poverty and there is no end in sight. If we are not careful we will be making the cheap goods for the Chinese before too long.

Over the past several decades, China’s economic development has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and resulted in a burgeoning middle class. Middle class households typically have enough income to satisfy their primary needs – food, clothing, and shelter – with some disposable income for additional consumption and savings. In 2000, China’s middle class amounted to just three percent of its population. By 2018, this number had climbed to over half of the population, constituting nearly 707 million people. China’s growing middle class presents new economic opportunities, but also poses significant political and demographic challenges.

https://chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/

 

[Loulit01]

China has the fastest growing middle class in the world because wages are increasing for many. GM sells more cars in China them in the US. Don't forget those facts. Yes China is a dictatorship but they have made a decision to use capitalism to please the people and stay in power. It is working at least so far. They have lifted millions out of poverty and there is no end in sight. If we are not careful we will be making the cheap goods for the Chinese before too long.

Over the past several decades, China’s economic development has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and resulted in a burgeoning middle class. Middle class households typically have enough income to satisfy their primary needs – food, clothing, and shelter – with some disposable income for additional consumption and savings. In 2000, China’s middle class amounted to just three percent of its population. By 2018, this number had climbed to over half of the population, constituting nearly 707 million people. China’s growing middle class presents new economic opportunities, but also poses significant political and demographic challenges.

https://chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/

All true. But I'd like to mention the above information is from 2018, before covid. Now China has been hit hard by the global energy crises and the Evergrande fiasco. Things aren't as rosy anymore. This may by why China is acting out in the South China Sea and Taiwan.

 

[iguanaman]

All true. But I'd like to mention the above information is from 2018, before covid. Now China has been hit hard by the global energy crises and the Evergrande fiasco. Things aren't as rosy anymore. This may by why China is acting out in the South China Sea and Taiwan.

Yes there is fallout from the Govts. incessant drive to maintain economic growth. Having enough vacant housing units to house the population of Germany cannot be good for the real estate market and that is what happens when construction is 30% of your economy. They are depending on the autocratic govt. to keep things stable and it won't be easy. There is no doubt that they are acting out their frustrations on the rest of the world.

 

[soylentgreen]

Manufacturers will not pay American labor costs, by choice, as long as there is cheaper outsourcing.

That really is an example of how america is not a capitalist country. It is a laissez faire capitalist country.

Your economy relies on large business and a handful of elite wealthy who own the manufactories, instead of relying on the millions who could start a small business easily.

 

[Loulit01]

That really is an example of how america is not a capitalist country. It is a laissez faire capitalist country.

Your economy relies on large business and a handful of elite wealthy who own the manufactories, instead of relying on the millions who could start a small business easily.

We saw what laissez-faire capitalism got us during the Hoover administration. It's a shame because Hoover was a brilliant and good-hearted man who proved his mettle feeding millions in the U.S.S.R. during the famine.

 

[soylentgreen]

We saw what laissez-faire capitalism got us during the Hoover administration. It's a shame because Hoover was a brilliant and good-hearted man who proved his mettle feeding millions in the U.S.S.R. during the famine.

Reagan was more the laissez faire supporter. But even he new you could only push that shit so far before revolution occurs.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Reagan was more the laissez faire supporter. But even he new you could only push that shit so far before revolution occurs.

Surprisingly not

The Reagan admin forced Japan to respect quota's on imports of cars to the US, the US used quotas on Japan's semiconductor industry (turning it from the juggernaut at the time to an also ran.

For all the talk in actuality the Reagan admin had the government manage capitalism

 

[Amelia]

Tariff's, when used appropriately, are beneficial. Buy American right?

Yeah. Be sure you're ready for the consequences before levying them on the products that Americans need for making the rest of their goods. The tariff on steel ... that hurt a lot more Americans than it helped.

That's what happened with so many of Trump's policies. Might have been good, if done with some skill, insight and finesse ... but not when done in Trump's heavy-handed impulsive manner with no vision other than Trump wanting to do something to grab attention.

 

[soylentgreen]

Surprisingly not

The Reagan admin forced Japan to respect quota's on imports of cars to the US, the US used quotas on Japan's semiconductor industry (turning it from the juggernaut at the time to an also ran.

For all the talk in actuality the Reagan admin had the government manage capitalism

No, reagan favoured big business and the elite few who ran them and ignored the small businesses which died during his term. Small town america becomes ghost towns because a mum and pop store cannot compete when something like walmart moves in.

 

[Phys251]

Terrible. Tariffs, in the end, are just another tax on the American people. The fact that so many politicians believe tariffs are beneficial is evidence that democracy is nothing but a clown show.

Why would you prefer a dictatorship?

 

[mrjurrs]

Treaties and tariffs ARE trade agreements. This discussion is overly-simplistic.

Treaties require Senate consent. Trade agreements do not. While similar, they are not the same.

 

[reflechissez]

Treaties require Senate consent. Trade agreements do not. While similar, they are not the same.

whatever

 

[mrjurrs]

True america only has a piss poor FTA with its immediate neighbors and a few poor countries. You do not have an open market as such.

Whatever it is we have, New Zealand benefits from it. Say thank you...

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Sure. End the tariffs...if you want to completely surrender to China.

They know the trade deals were a success. The left needs to blame someone or something for Biden's complete failure with the economy. Prices are skyrocketing and this is just the beginning. Pretty soon even the middle class of this country will be standing in the soup line.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

I think we should trade with a nation or we should not. I see no good reason why we should trade with a hostile nation, but simply place a burdensome tax paid for by the average consumer upon that trade.

If China is so rapacious, hostile and dangerous, we should decouple from the country and halt trade with them at the soonest available opportunity.

We did not trade with the Empire of Japan and Nazi Germany on the eve of World War 2. We did not seek to become dependent upon the Soviet Union for cheap manufacturing during the Cold War.

We should not leave our jugular in the hands of our adversaries.

Isn't China already working on the new Air Force One? You know they are really not bad folks.