Time Isn't Real

[grip]

Entropy is real.

Entropy is a measure of the disorder in a system. Time's arrow is a property of entropy, though measuring entropy does not accurately measure time. See Post #21

 

[NWO_Spook]

I seem to be reading an awful lot of assertions posited without demonstration.

Of course time exists, but the way we measure it is obviously a human construct and without sentient beings to record or measure it, the concept becomes meaningless. However, when life on our planet is extinguished, time will still pass and reality will still exist.

 

[zyzygy]

I seem to be reading an awful lot of assertions posited without demonstration.

Of course time exists, but the way we measure it is obviously a human construct and without sentient beings to record or measure it, the concept becomes meaningless. However, when life on our planet is extinguished, time will still pass and reality will still exist.

You said a mouthful there!

 

[watsup]

I seem to be reading an awful lot of assertions posited without demonstration.

Of course time exists, but the way we measure it is obviously a human construct and without sentient beings to record or measure it, the concept becomes meaningless. However, when life on our planet is extinguished, time will still pass and reality will still exist.

Science is a human construct. Religion is a human construct. Everything that humans do is a human construct. Grip wants everything to have a deeper philosophical meaning, but often a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[devildavid]

Before the short period of cosmic inflation, cosmologists believe that all matter in the universe was squeezed into a space much smaller than an atom. Cosmologists further believe that the universe was extremely dense and hot, and interactions between particles were governed by a single force. In other words, the four fundamental forces (strong nuclear, electromagnetic, weak nuclear, and gravitational) merge into one at these energies. How and why this “unity” breaks down at lower energies is an important unsolved problem in physics.

11.8: Evolution of the Early Universe

The early universe was hot and dense. The universe is isotropic and expanding. Cosmic background radiation is evidence for the Big Bang. The vast portion of the mass and energy of the universe is not …

phys.libretexts.org

Time is a quantity needed to change something, and change is necessarily temporal.

Your post does not demonstrate that physicists believe anything. The author of the quote has an opinion. That is all.

 

[grip]

I seem to be reading an awful lot of assertions posited without demonstration.

Of course time exists, but the way we measure it is obviously a human construct and without sentient beings to record or measure it, the concept becomes meaningless. However, when life on our planet is extinguished, time will still pass and reality will still exist.

Reality will still exist and events will still unfold but time will not exist as a concept, so it won't pass.

According to Einstein, the past and future all exist at once as a single analogous event. The present is the illusion created by the conscious mind. A living mind marks the passing of time as it changes from moment to moment.

 

[grip]

Science is a human construct. Religion is a human construct. Everything that humans do is a human construct. Grip wants everything to have a deeper philosophical meaning, but often a cigar is just a cigar.

A cigar is just a cigar. Unless it's a Cuban hand-rolled Cohiba, then it's a work of art.

Philosophy: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.


We receive information as sensory input from the world thru our observations which filter, then convey this objective data to our brains. But each individual then subjectively determines and formulates what this reality is and means in their minds. In other words, the brain is in an objective loop with physical reality, the input being output, but the mind is the final arbitrator. By collectively organizing a mosaic of past memories, present situations, and possible futures- certain decisions and determinations are made on a subjective level (free will).

We live in a 2 part reality. One is completely objective and identical for all living humans, except DNA differences, uniques experiences, and current circumstances, it's physically 'what' we are. The other is completely subjective, varying for all people, and determines mentally 'who' we are. Though the two deal with different parts of conscious awareness, they work in unison to create one mind and physical being. You cannot lump all personality traits into a singular, objective, physical reality without considering every person's unique character traits based on self-awareness.

 

[devildavid]

Reality will still exist and events will still unfold but time will not exist as a concept, so it won't pass.

According to Einstein, the past and future all exist at once as a single analogous event. The present is the illusion created by the conscious mind. A living mind marks the passing of time as it changes from moment to moment.

No, that is not according to Einstein. And Einstein was just a man. The rest is just woo speak.

 

[devildavid]

A cigar is just a cigar. Unless it's a Cuban hand-rolled Cohiba, then it's a work of art.

Philosophy: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.


We receive information as sensory input from the world thru our observations which filter, then convey this objective data to our brains. But each individual then subjectively determines and formulates what this reality is and means in their minds. In other words, the brain is in an objective loop with physical reality, the input being output, but the mind is the final arbitrator. By collectively organizing a mosaic of past memories, present situations, and possible futures- certain decisions and determinations are made on a subjective level (free will).

We live in a 2 part reality. One is completely objective and identical for all living humans, except DNA differences, uniques experiences, and current circumstances, it's physically 'what' we are. The other is completely subjective, varying for all people, and determines mentally 'who' we are. Though the two deal with different parts of conscious awareness, they work in unison to create one mind and physical being. You cannot lump all personality traits into a singular, objective, physical reality without considering every person's unique character traits based on self-awareness.

Philosophy is made up.

 

[grip]

No, that is not according to Einstein. And Einstein was just a man. The rest is just woo speak.

And of course, you are more recognized than Einstein?

 

[devildavid]

And of course, you are more recognized than Einstein?

Einstein was just a man. And a man who is often misquoted on the internet in an attempt to appeal to authority. What matters is what science demonstrates, not what any individual scientist may or may not have said.

 

[grip]

Einstein was just a man. And a man who is often misquoted on the internet in an attempt to appeal to authority. What matters is what science demonstrates, not what any individual scientist may or may not have said.

And yet you haven't once refuted one of his quotes with scientific verification. Your words are empty as your opinions, without scientific facts.

 

[devildavid]

And yet you haven't once refuted one of his quotes with scientific verification. Your words are empty as your opinions, without scientific facts.

All you have are words. And I only need my words to point out that fact.

 

[grip]

All you have are words. And I only need my words to point out that fact.

I've schooled you so much on the difference between facts and opinions, it isn't even funny.

 

[grip]

Einstein's 'block universe' states that the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. And where there's a first cause, there's the last effect, so from a reference point outside of time, all of existence would appear as static, with time as a 4th dimension and the future determined.

We know it takes the changing past to continually create the present and the approaching future is always becoming the here and now. There really is no fixed point in time, except that which emerges from awareness, only a moving set of intervals. But as space expands, we know that our current conscious awareness is traveling on the surface of expanding time (space) like riding a wave.

So, the future for 'things', existing within our timeframe, is incalculable and yet to come into existence. Meaning that the future for humans is still to be determined, though outside of our time reference may already exist in another dimension.

In some undetermined manner, human consciousness may have evolved to be intrinsically interconnected to space/time through quantum entanglement?

The Daily Galaxy

Great Discoveries Channel

dailygalaxy.com

Consciousness, the brain, and spacetime geometry - PubMed

What is consciousness? Conventional approaches see it as an emergent property of complex interactions among individual neurons; however these approaches fail to address enigmatic features of consciousness. Accordingly, some philosophers have contended that "qualia," or an experiential medium...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[devildavid]

I've schooled you so much on the difference between facts and opinions, it isn't even funny.

You haven't schooled me on anything. All you have presented is opinion. That is a fact.

 

[devildavid]

Einstein's 'block universe' states that the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. And where there's a first cause, there's the last effect, so from a reference point outside of time, all of existence would appear as static, with time as a 4th dimension and the future determined.

We know it takes the changing past to continually create the present and the approaching future is always becoming the here and now. There really is no fixed point in time, except that which emerges from awareness, only a moving set of intervals. But as space expands, we know that our current conscious awareness is traveling on the surface of expanding time (space) like riding a wave.

So, the future for 'things', existing within our timeframe, is incalculable and yet to come into existence. Meaning that the future for humans is still to be determined, though outside of our time reference may already exist in another dimension.

In some undetermined manner, human consciousness may have evolved to be intrinsically interconnected to space/time through quantum entanglement?

The Daily Galaxy

Great Discoveries Channel

dailygalaxy.com

Consciousness, the brain, and spacetime geometry - PubMed

What is consciousness? Conventional approaches see it as an emergent property of complex interactions among individual neurons; however these approaches fail to address enigmatic features of consciousness. Accordingly, some philosophers have contended that "qualia," or an experiential medium...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Please stop misrepresenting Einstein.

 

[noonereal]

Albert Einstein once wrote: People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.

Time is like one continuous film of snapshots in succession with a beginning and end. Our lives occur somewhere in this incredibly long movie with a starting point and finish. Like this film, theoretically, time can be run backward or forwards but since it's the result of causality, it appears to expand, or run, in one direction.

The human senses are the projector and our minds are the screen. We see reality as a moving series of images because that's the way nature evolved us to adapt to our environment. Though our senses record the elements from their micro-level, our brains translate the experiences on mostly a classical macro-level. In other words, we taste, smell, hear, feel, and see things as larger singular objects, or the sum of the parts as a whole. We don't see individual particles but rather our eyes transfer electromagnetic waves as reflected or absorbed light.

The way sound doesn't exist without an ear to hear it, only the potential for noise does as vibrations in the air. So awareness of time takes a sentient being. Though trees are alive, they are not aware of anything. Time, as humans perceive it, is partially a result of our memories and consciousness. Similar to our senses, it doesn't exist separately from biological creatures, only its potential does.

We don't perceive reality as it really exists. Our perception is a limited and altered view of energy at work and time in motion.

in macro this is an excellent post!

(Some details are incorrect)

When I tell people there is no such thing as time they think I am nuts, good to find a civilian (lol) that understands this. It's really common sense if one thinks it through.

 

[noonereal]

I'll agree our minds are imperfectly interpreting the world around us, but time objectively exists or nothing around us would ever change.

Reality exists too, it's just not 100% what we're seeing. From a practical POV, it is much better this way.

With some relatively minor changes to our brains we could probably see the air around us, but then we'd all be effectively blind.

nope

 

[noonereal]

Biological life defines the universe in a unique way, more than any other known aspect. At a minimum, the universe evolved life forms on, at least, this planet. The purpose is yet undetermined.

not really

 

[grip]

not really

I'm still learning and don't always get it right.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You haven't schooled me on anything. All you have presented is opinion. That is a fact.

But is that actually the truth David? recall this recent bizarre mental breakdown:

...It is a fact that there is no such thing as truth...

Hmm - should I believe what he say's here or not...if I believe it then it's true but if it's true there's no such thing so it must be false, but wait, if...

 

[devildavid]

But is that actually the truth David? recall this recent bizarre mental breakdown:



Hmm - should I believe what he say's here or not...if I believe it then it's true but if it's true there's no such thing so it must be false, but wait, if...

There is a difference between "truth" and "the truth". That little preposition changes everything.

 

[zyzygy]

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

There is a difference between "truth" and "the truth". That little preposition changes everything.

Yes Mr. Trump, of course, whatever you say.