Time Isn't Real

[grip]

Albert Einstein once wrote: People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.

Time is like one continuous film of snapshots in succession with a beginning and end. Our lives occur somewhere in this incredibly long movie with a starting point and finish. Like this film, theoretically, time can be run backward or forwards but since it's the result of causality, it appears to expand, or run, in one direction.

The human senses are the projector and our minds are the screen. We see reality as a moving series of images because that's the way nature evolved us to adapt to our environment. Though our senses record the elements from their micro-level, our brains translate the experiences on mostly a classical macro-level. In other words, we taste, smell, hear, feel, and see things as larger singular objects, or the sum of the parts as a whole. We don't see individual particles but rather our eyes transfer electromagnetic waves as reflected or absorbed light.

The way sound doesn't exist without an ear to hear it, only the potential for noise does as vibrations in the air. So awareness of time takes a sentient being. Though trees are alive, they are not aware of anything. Time, as humans perceive it, is partially a result of our memories and consciousness. Similar to our senses, it doesn't exist separately from biological creatures, only its potential does.

We don't perceive reality as it really exists. Our perception is a limited and altered view of energy at work and time in motion.

 

[WillyPete]

I'll agree our minds are imperfectly interpreting the world around us, but time objectively exists or nothing around us would ever change.

Reality exists too, it's just not 100% what we're seeing. From a practical POV, it is much better this way.

With some relatively minor changes to our brains we could probably see the air around us, but then we'd all be effectively blind.

 

[grip]

I'll agree our minds are imperfectly interpreting the world around us, but time objectively exists or nothing around us would ever change.

Reality exists too, it's just not 100% what we're seeing. From a practical POV, it is much better this way.

With some relatively minor changes to our brains we could probably see the air around us, but then we'd all be effectively blind.

Well, change exists but 'time' is a mental construct to mark the distance between change. I doubt even most mammals are aware of time per se, though I'm sure they retain memories. The 'concept' of time may be objective but without biological life, it's a meaningless term.

Yes, evolution developed us as efficiently as possible without cluttering our senses with irrelevant info. We kind of see the air as the color blue because the gases and particles in the earth's atmosphere scatter sunlight.

 

[WillyPete]

Well, change exists but 'time' is a mental construct to mark the distance between change. I doubt even most mammals are aware of time per se, though I'm sure they retain memories. The 'concept' of time may be objective but without biological life, it's a meaningless term.

I disagree, as change happens outside the biological realm. Suns burn, meteors zip around, black holes consume entire solar systems. That all requires time. I suppose the concept doesn't "matter" if there's no one to think about it, but the reality endures.

What you appear to be suggesting is that biological life gives the universe purpose, but I think it's much more likely the universe couldn't give a **** and has no purpose we can comprehend.

 

[Bum]

Albert Einstein once wrote: People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.

Time is like one continuous film of snapshots in succession with a beginning and end. Our lives occur somewhere in this incredibly long movie with a starting point and finish. Like this film, theoretically, time can be run backward or forwards but since it's the result of causality, it appears to expand, or run, in one direction.

The human senses are the projector and our minds are the screen. We see reality as a moving series of images because that's the way nature evolved us to adapt to our environment. Though our senses record the elements from their micro-level, our brains translate the experiences on mostly a classical macro-level. In other words, we taste, smell, hear, feel, and see things as larger singular objects, or the sum of the parts as a whole. We don't see individual particles but rather our eyes transfer electromagnetic waves as reflected or absorbed light.

The way sound doesn't exist without an ear to hear it, only the potential for noise does as vibrations in the air. So awareness of time takes a sentient being. Though trees are alive, they are not aware of anything. Time, as humans perceive it, is partially a result of our memories and consciousness. Similar to our senses, it doesn't exist separately from biological creatures, only its potential does.

We don't perceive reality as it really exists. Our perception is a limited and altered view of energy at work and time in motion.

Interesting premise......I'll get back to you with a reply next week.

 

[grip]

I disagree, as change happens outside the biological realm. Suns burn, meteors zip around, black holes consume entire solar systems. That all requires time. I suppose the concept doesn't "matter" if there's no one to think about it, but the reality endures.

What you appear to be suggesting is that biological life gives the universe purpose, but I think it's much more likely the universe couldn't give a **** and has no purpose we can comprehend.

Biological life defines the universe in a unique way, more than any other known aspect. At a minimum, the universe evolved life forms on, at least, this planet. The purpose is yet undetermined.

 

[WillyPete]

Biological life defines the universe in a unique way, more than any other known aspect. At a minimum, the universe evolved life forms on, at least, this planet. The purpose is yet indeterminable.

If you were a meteor you'd say the same about them. It would be just as true, and still reality would shrug.

 

[grip]

If you were a meteor you'd say the same about them. It would be just as true, and still reality would shrug.

If I were a meteor, I couldn't say a thing, being a big stupid rock. Nobody knows the final story about reality, only people pretending too.

 

[WillyPete]

If I were a meteor, I couldn't say a thing, being a big stupid rock. Nobody knows the final story about reality, only people pretending too.

Hey, don't knock it, they travel in space for millennia, experience more than any planet-bound lump of meat.

I don't presume to know the answers, but there is much to support the notion that there is an objective reality that doesn't depend on biological life in any way.

I think we'd at least partially agree the reverse is true. Biological life depends on a subjective view of reality (that in turn depends on objective reality.)

 

[grip]

Hey, don't knock it, they travel in space for millennia, experience more than any planet-bound lump of meat.

I don't presume to know the answers, but there is much to support the notion that there is an objective reality that doesn't depend on biological life in any way.

I think we'd at least partially agree the reverse is true. Biological life depends on a subjective view of reality (that in turn depends on objective reality.)

Yah, asteroids are smart fellas! ...lol

For sure there is an objective reality that's wholly independent of humanity. We just don't really know what reality is yet.

Yes, subjective reality depends on an objective one but we also don't know for sure why, if for any reason, did the universe evolve conscious life.

 

[WillyPete]

Yah, asteroids are smart fellas! ...lol

For sure there is an objective reality that's wholly independent of humanity. We just don't really know what reality is yet.

Yes, subjective reality depends on an objective one but we also don't know for sure why, if for any reason, did the universe evolve conscious life.

No argument, except to say by the same logic we've agreed on, we have only limited means to evaluate the intelligence of a meteor.

Possibly they are tricking us.

 

[watsup]

Yah, asteroids are smart fellas! ...lol

For sure there is an objective reality that's wholly independent of humanity. We just don't really know what reality is yet.

Yes, subjective reality depends on an objective one but we also don't know for sure why, if for any reason, did the universe evolve conscious life.

There was no reason. It just happened. This is not a difficult concept, no matter your God fantasies.

 

[grip]

There was no reason. It just happened. This is not a difficult concept, no matter your God fantasies.

Where did anyone mention a god in this thread?

 

[zyzygy]

Where did anyone mention a god in this thread?

This thread belongs in the science forum.

 

[grip]

This thread belongs in the science forum.

I can propose a 'Belief', without it mentioning god.

 

[watsup]

Where did anyone mention a god in this thread?

When you make the claim that "we don't know why the universe evolved conscious life", the you do indeed imply that there was an actual "cause" rather than it just happening, and that most often implies a God. What else could it possibly imply. Plus the statement also implies a "plan" of some sort in claiming that the "universe did it" rather than it just happening in and of itself witnout some sort of exterior plan.

 

[grip]

When you make the claim that "we don't know why the universe evolved conscious life", the you do indeed imply that there was an actual "cause" rather than it just happening, and that most often implies a God. What else could it possibly imply. Plus the statement also implies a "plan" of some sort in claiming that the "universe did it" rather than it just happening in and of itself witnout some sort of exterior plan.

If life makes sense, then why can't the universe? Saying it's all random nonsense is in itself nonsense.

 

[soylentgreen]

Albert Einstein once wrote: People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.

Time is like one continuous film of snapshots in succession with a beginning and end. Our lives occur somewhere in this incredibly long movie with a starting point and finish. Like this film, theoretically, time can be run backward or forwards but since it's the result of causality, it appears to expand, or run, in one direction.

The human senses are the projector and our minds are the screen. We see reality as a moving series of images because that's the way nature evolved us to adapt to our environment. Though our senses record the elements from their micro-level, our brains translate the experiences on mostly a classical macro-level. In other words, we taste, smell, hear, feel, and see things as larger singular objects, or the sum of the parts as a whole. We don't see individual particles but rather our eyes transfer electromagnetic waves as reflected or absorbed light.

The way sound doesn't exist without an ear to hear it, only the potential for noise does as vibrations in the air. So awareness of time takes a sentient being. Though trees are alive, they are not aware of anything. Time, as humans perceive it, is partially a result of our memories and consciousness. Similar to our senses, it doesn't exist separately from biological creatures, only its potential does.

We don't perceive reality as it really exists. Our perception is a limited and altered view of energy at work and time in motion.

It is entropy that sets the direction of time. And gives us cause and effect rather than time running backwards and giving us effect then cause.

And time is merely a means to measure entropy.

 

[ecofarm]

"Time isn't holding up. Time isn't after us."

 

[soylentgreen]

"Time isn't holding up. Time isn't after us."

Time flies like an arrow
But fruit flies prefer a banana.

 

[grip]

It is entropy that sets the direction of time. And gives us cause and effect rather than time running backwards and giving us effect then cause.

And time is merely a means to measure entropy.

There are many 'arrows of time.'

A cause precedes its effect, thus causality is intimately bound up with time's arrow.

The cosmological arrow of time points in the direction of the universe's expansion.

And there's the psychological/perceptual arrow of time, which is the one I'm mainly talking about.

Though the one science and physics accepts the most says entropy requires a particular direction for time.

Arrow of time - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[grip]

"Time isn't holding up. Time isn't after us."

The Talking Heads were way ahead of their 'time'... lol.

 

[ecofarm]

The Talking Heads were way ahead of their 'time'... lol.

"The future is certain. Give us time to work it out."

 

[grip]

"The future is certain. Give us time to work it out."

All things work themselves out in time.

 

[devildavid]

If life makes sense, then why can't the universe? Saying it's all random nonsense is in itself nonsense.

Things just happen. The universe just means everything that there is, it doesn't refer to a force or a power. We call everything that physically exists the universe. That's all it is.