Three Trump Judges Just Issued a Shock Ruling That Could Wreak Havoc on the Election

[rational anarchist]

I never said he can't get there. I'm saying it's an unnecessary burden.

Traveling across the globe promoting science, especially before we had reliable video stream feeds, was a worthwhile burden for Hawking.

But being forced to travel to a polling place when he can simply mail in his ballot is pointless.

and how do we know steven is the one that fills out the ballot??

he cant write,,

 

[The Stars Tremble]

so who is voting for these comatose patients??

I understand your concern.

However, I have some experience with disabled people. Some of them are brighter than you, hell some of them are brighter than me. If they're physically unable to attend a polling station (like "normal people") then rationally there should be allowances like postal voting.

And for anyone burdened by two or three jobs, and possibly located away from an early polling station, what kind of arrogance is it to require them to attend a particular place, on one particular day, to exercise their right to vote?

You have one idea "postal voting bad" and you have failed to defend it.

You would earn a lot of credit, from myself and others, if you would just admit you were wrong.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

and how do we know steven is the one that fills out the ballot??

he cant write,,

Steven died. Which I guess gets you off the hook for trying to disenfranchise one of the most brilliant people of our era.

 

[rational anarchist]

I understand your concern.

However, I have some experience with disabled people. Some of them are brighter than you, hell some of them are brighter than me. If they're physically unable to attend a polling station (like "normal people") then rationally there should be allowances like postal voting.

And for anyone burdened by two or three jobs, and possibly located away from an early polling station, what kind of arrogance is it to require them to attend a particular place, on one particular day, to exercise their right to vote?

You have one idea "postal voting bad" and you have failed to defend it.

You would earn a lot of credit, from myself and others, if you would just admit you were wrong.

there we go again with the personal insults,,

youre dismissed,,

 

[rational anarchist]

Steven died. Which I guess gets you off the hook for trying to disenfranchise one of the most brilliant people of our era.

again with childish personal attacks,,

 

[Geoist]

and how do we know steven is the one that fills out the ballot??

he cant write,,

I don't know voting rules/laws are in England, but in America people with disabilities can have a trusted individual help them vote.

Btw, Hawking was able to write, so I'm sure he filled out his own ballot.

 

[rational anarchist]

I don't know voting rules/laws are in England, but in America people with disabilities can have a trusted individual help them vote.

Btw, Hawking was able to write, so I'm sure he filled out his own ballot.

trusted by who??

 

[Geoist]

trusted by who??

By the individual who is voting.

 

[Geoist]

So far in this thread @rational anarchist has claimed:

We didn't have mail in ballots until recently (we did).

We didn't have early voting until recently (we did).

Stephen Hawking was comatose (he wasn't).

Stephen Hawking couldn't write (he could).

I'm sure there were several more objectively false statements of his I overlooked, but 4 of them within 5 pages is quite the 'achievement.'

 

[roberthughey]

What does state law say?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

there we go again with the personal insults,,

youre dismissed,,

You think an olive branch is a personal insult.

I tried to reach out to you. I gave you a chance to change the subject.

But you don't care. You're just going to get kicked in the balls. over and over again, and oh so rationally you're going to pretend it does not hurt.

"You're dismissed" never worked for @Mycroft and it won't work for you.

 

[JasperL]

early voting and mail in voting are two different things,,

stop trying to combine them,,

there re a lot of logical reasons for early voting,,

very few if any reasons for mail in voting,,

that is if your goal is a free and fair election,,

There are few if any reasons if you don't count the disabled as people who matter. Otherwise that's one great reason.

There are others - military overseas, others traveling for work, people who are sick who should not or cannot get around others for risk of spreading disease or catching something from standing in line for hours, the hospitalized, the frail, those whose jobs don't allow time off during normal voting hours, single parents who don't want to haul the infants or young kids to a polling place for an hour or two while they stand in line to vote.

And what arguments like yours ignore is that a 'free and fair' election means everyone eligible should be ABLE to cast their vote. Sure, the most secure vote is cast at the polling station. Well, say a state has 10,000 voters who simply cannot go to the polling station. So under current law in perhaps every state they can vote by mail. Is there more risk? Sure. So now we compare the risk of 'voter fraud' from allowing that to the impact on a 'free and fair' election by denying those 10,000 the ability to cast a ballot. Which wins? You tell me, but that's the decision.

The DATA tell us that mail in ballots are VERY secure, and there's simply no evidence of 'voter fraud' exceeding the trivial in a state with millions of votes cast. So would we rationally disenfranchise, say, 10,000 to prevent 100 cases of voter fraud? Why?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

What does state law say?

Fifty people shouting ... it's hard to tell what state law says.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

OK how about we just allow early voting for provable extreme conditions like you described and require people that have no rational excuse to go vote,,

almost forgot,,
make election day a national holiday so there re no excuses??

Several states have had EXCLUSIVELY mail-in voting for years with no problems. Why do you insist they change their ways now?

 

[roberthughey]

Fifty people shouting ... it's hard to tell what state law says.

If state law says mail in ballots must be post marked by election day to be counted, then ballots post marked later then that day don't count. Follow the law.

There are no reasons to make exceptions but possibly a case could be made for certain areas affected by Helene.

 

[rational anarchist]

Several states have had EXCLUSIVELY mail-in voting for years with no problems. Why do you insist they change their ways now?

no problems??

thats a pretty broad brush youre using there,,

 

[Stealers Wheel]

no problems??

thats a pretty broad brush youre using there,,

Then demonstrate that I'm wrong. Show me the massive problems in states where mail-in voting is the norm. You can't because there aren't. But you already know that.

 

[rational anarchist]

Then demonstrate that I'm wrong. Show me the massive problems in states where mail-in voting is the norm. You can't because there aren't. But you already know that.

how do you know every ballot was filled out by or approved by the person who the ballot was intended??

 

[The Stars Tremble]

In Australia, voting is compulsory. Even for local councils (but not for Sanitation Comptrollers or anything below local council ... we don't vote for them.)

Of course turnout is high. People don't want to get fined, but actually the fines are not unreasonable. $20 for failure to vote, for Federal offices, $50 for state offices (NSW) when last I checked. If money was the only thing which mattered, turnout would be no better than the US. It's the principle: sitting on the couch instead, is breaking the law.

For that, you get a really scrupulous Electoral Commission, which provides polling places according to need. The most outrageous event I remember, is some people in Victoria having to wait for an hour. But it almost never happens. In my personal experience, I had to wait 15 minutes to get into the polling place and check off my name and address. That's one time: usually it's under 5 minutes.

When government requires people to vote, government also takes on the obligation to make voting easy.

I will however propose a compromise for America: voting remains optional, but government pays every voter for the time they spend queuing up. Local government pays.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

how do you know every ballot was filled out by or approved by the person who the ballot was intended??

Simple. No one has come forward to state otherwise. For many decades and millions of votes. And again, you know that. But, lacking any evidence, you would have us assume there are problems with mail-in voting.

 

[rational anarchist]

Simple. No one has come forward to state otherwise. For many decades and millions of votes. And again, you know that. But, lacking any evidence, you would have us assume there are problems with mail-in voting.

NO ONE??

are you absolutely sure about that??

 

[The Stars Tremble]

If state law says mail in ballots must be post marked by election day to be counted, then ballots post marked later then that day don't count. Follow the law.

I have never disputed this. "Postmarked" is generally within a day of being posted, and anyone posting their ballot within a couple of days of election day, is taking a risk.

There should be a public advertising drive, to make this clear to postal voters. But I'm sure the major parties will provide that advertising.

There are no reasons to make exceptions but possibly a case could be made for certain areas affected by Helene.

Yes, I agree with that too. I don't want either party disputing the count based on ballots cast after election day.

Mind you, I prefer the Australian system where it can take a day to resolve the House, and weeks to resolve the Senate. All the votes are in, but because all ballots are on paper, and they all have to counted multiple times (for preferences) we have some hang time. It's fun: the winner is usually clear on election night but who will sit on the crossbench isn't known for days or even weeks.

"Minority governments" aka forced coalitions, are very common in Australian politics. It's fun for everyone. And rather than gridlock, you get sudden shocks. Fun!

 

[Geoist]

early voting and mail in voting are two different things,,

stop trying to combine them,,

You've literally argued against BOTH in this very thread!

 

[Stealers Wheel]

cry me river,,

exceptions for proven issues can be addressed

the problem is it went from that to OK I can sit on my ass and do my civic duty,,

mail in voting should have never happened,,

Post # 17 you say mail-in voting should be stopped. Post #20 you refer to mail-in votes as 'insanity.' And later you propose that exceptions for "extreme" circumstances should be allowed. And here you are saying mail-in voting should never have happened, even though several states as well as the armed forces around the globe have used mail-in ballots for decades without problems.

So, not only do you not have the goods to back up your argument, but you have actually undermined your position by allowing for 'extreme' circumstances. Here's why: By allowing for what you say are 'extreme circumstances' you demonstrate you are not really against mail-in voting per se. At best, you are against the reasons why someone might want to vote by mail. So, you would prohibit voting by mail if the person's motivation for doing so does meet your approval.

So, one person is allowed to vote by mail, and another is disenfranchised if they can't get to the polling place.

Very weak sauce, dude.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

NO ONE??

are you absolutely sure about that??

Oh, you're a clever one! You think that if you can show a handful of disputed ballots out of millions that somehow that justifies disenfranchising millions of voters.

Go ahead, show us the evidence. I dare you.