Three Trump codefendants say they became false electors at Trump’s ‘direction’

[Liberal7360]

That is not exactly true. The courts did reject the "Trump made them do it" defense but evidence was never requested, it was simply rejected as a valid defense. What these folk are saying will not play as a defense either but it will implicate Trump as the ringleader of this broad conspiracy to thwart the election which is core to the case. Chesebro was the mastermind of this aspect of the plot and he was acting with Trump's knowledge and approval according to the indictment.

Courts will always reject the excuse that they were "following orders" or "trump made them do it."

It didn't work at Nuremberg, it won't work now.

No one is compelled to break the law. They have free choice. They had the opportunity to just say no.

They said yes and took action to carry out the crime.

They are just as guilty of their actions as trump.

 

[Liberal7360]

Cheseboro has requested, and received, his right to a speedy trial and at this point it is scheduled for late October. If he walks on the charge, Trump walks on the charge but I heard Trump is going to object to the early trial date which if true makes me think he knows there is bad stuff in there. It's about to get very interesting one way or another.

trump can object to cheseboro having a speedy trial all he wants.

What he can't do is take that constitutional right from anyone else.

I've never heard of anyone going to court to force another person to not have their constitutional right to a speedy trial.

I'm sure if trump is actually trying to do this, he will be quickly laughed out of court.

If trump was smart, he would not try to prevent that speedy trial. He will be able to learn the prosecution's whole case and build a much better case for himself since he already knows the evidence and how the prosecution will conduct the case in court.

The only people who think trump is smart are people who are just as stupid or even more stupid than trump.

 

[SkyChief]

How about a phone call with his voice asking for enough votes to to change the election?

You're referring to the call that Trump made to the Georgia Sect'y of State to "find" votes. That won't work. These indictments are specifically about the Conspiracy Theory that Trump was aware of, and gave his blessing to the fake electors.

Maybe did, and maybe he didn't . . . . . my point was that the prosecution will need to produce actual material evidence - not just hearsay testimony from the fake electors.

 

[Ambig]

my point was that the prosecution will need to produce material evidence - not just hearsay testimony from the fake electors.

You're mistaken.

If six people witness a carjacking and all testify to having seen it, then the carjacker is likely to be convicted, even if there is no video of the event.

I told you this earlier, and you avoided responding.

And now you repeat the same mistaken point.

 

[SkyChief]

You're mistaken.

If six people witness a carjacking and all testify to having seen it, then the carjacker is likely to be convicted, even if there is no video of the event.

I told you this earlier, and you avoided responding.

And now you repeat the same mistaken point.

That's an interesting anecdote, but has no relevance whatsoever with determining a person's involvement in a crime - The fake electors are the witnesses. They have a HUGE incentive to lie about Trump's involvement in crimes which THEY committed.

The witnesses in your carjacking scenario are not connected in any way with the crime.

 

[Deuce]

They are lying.

So sad it must be, to live in a world where the only person you can trust is Donald Trump.

 

[Deuce]

That's an intersting anecdote, but has no relevance when determining a person's involvement in a crime.

I'm sorry... are you saying eyewitness testimony has no relevance in determining guilt?

 

[Liberal7360]

Had knowledge is enough in a RICO case where Trump has already played a direct role in other aspects of the conspiracy. Heck, the prosecution does not even have to prove that Trump had specific knowledge of each event.

This is what RICO cases are. They are cases where being part of a criminal enterprise is enough. It only takes two predicate crimes to make a RICO case against the co-defendants and there are enough predicate crimes here to choke a mule.

Heresy evidence is not even an issue here as Trump is already on the hook for direct involvement in the conspiracy and there are at least two predicate crimes in play and there will be direct evidence presented in testimony to the effect of Trumps direct involvement in parts of the criminal enterprise.

This is how RICO cases bring down criminal enterprises and gangs. The Prosecution does not have to prove that guys at the top of the enterprise had direct involvement in each aspect of the criminal enterprise. That they were part of aspects of the criminal enterprise that was engaged in two predicate crimes is enough.

I don't know much about RICO, but from what you posted above, trump is so screwed.

The DOJ has emails from the trump campaign and those emails are very damning for trump and his campaign.

The emails outline the whole scheme and an added bonus, tells the fake electors to not let anyone know about what they are doing.

Email reveals Trump campaign told fake electors in Georgia to use 'complete secrecy'

www.cnn.com

 

[Ambig]

That's an interesting anecdote, but has no relevance whatsoever whith determining a person's involvement in a crime - which is what Trump's jury will be called on to do.

It's an exact parallel. Many people are convicted by witnesses coming into court and testifying to the criminal behavior of the defendant.

Yes? No?

 

[Ambig]

I'm sorry... are you saying eyewitness testimony has no relevance in determining guilt?

That does appear to be his position.

But I'm guessing he only thinks that way when the defendant is Donald Trump.

 

[Liberal7360]

Sorry, man. I watched the incitement speeches. You can't fool me with the 'peaceful' thing.

Trump is screwed. If there's any justice in America.

Yeah, they've got the evidence. We've already seen and heard a bunch of it, and there's a lot more to come.

No kidding. A violent insurrectionist and election cheat and secret-document thief, back in our White House.

But the only way he can win would be if the election is rigged. I don't think Americans will sit still for that. They might attack the Capitol or something.

I'm not political. Not interested in the tribal hate.

There is and was no leak of evidence.

The evidence we've seen thus far is what is already in the public domain.

It's what is in the indictment. That's all the evidence that's out there so far.

Evidence in an indictment isn't a leak. It's following the laws of a Grand Jury and an indictment.

I'm getting so tired of the lies from republicans.

 

[Ambig]

There is and was no leak of evidence.

The evidence we've seen thus far is what is already in the public domain.

It's what is in the indictment. That's all the evidence that's out there so far.

Evidence in an indictment isn't a leak. It's following the laws of a Grand Jury and an indictment.

I might have lost my place in the thread. I can't remember anyone talking about leaked evidence.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

They are lying.

Projecting again.

 

[Liberal7360]

I might have lost my place in the thread. I can't remember anyone talking about leaked evidence.

You replied to a trump person who lied and claimed there was a leak of evidence.

 

[Callen]

You're referring to the call that Trump made to the Georgia Sect'y of State to "find" votes. That won't work. These indictments are specifically about the Conspiracy Theory that Trump was aware of, and gave his blessing to the fake electors.

You are mistaken. The RICO charges are much broader than just the electors. The overriding premise of the indictment is that Trump was at the top of a conspiracy to overthrow the GA elections with the purpose of retaining his power. The call to Raffensberger is one element, the electors are another element, calls to other election officials, election official intimidation and bogus voter fraud claims round it all out. Only one person needs to be involved in all aspects and that is Trump. The rest can be involved in one or more elements.

Maybe did, and maybe he didn't . . . . . my point was that the prosecution will need to produce actual material evidence - not just hearsay testimony from the fake electors.

I am certain the prosecutors have figured that out! They will prove at Cheseboro's trial that Trump was aware of, participating in and giving direction regarding the elector scam. They will then go on to prove that Cheseboro coordinated the activities of the fake electors. Trump does not have to be involved directly with the electors to be found guilty of the overreaching conspiracy. No way the prosecution got this far without evidence and a lot of it. They also have several flippers who will take the stand under penalty of perjury. Don't forget the prosecutor already knows what they will testify to......it won't be a surprise and they will be ready with corroborating evidence......this ain't law a school mock ups!

 

[SkyChief]

You are mistaken. The RICO charges are much broader than just the electors. The overriding premise of the indictment is that Trump was at the top of a conspiracy to overthrow the GA elections with the purpose of retaining his power. The call to Raffensberger is one element, the electors are another element, calls to other election officials, election official intimidation and bogus voter fraud claims round it all out. Only one person needs to be involved in all aspects and that is Trump. The rest can be involved in one or more elements.

Ok

I am certain the prosecutors have figured that out!

I'm not.

They will prove at Cheseboro's trial that Trump was aware of, participating in and giving direction regarding the elector scam.

Maybe so, but they will need more than just hearsay evidence to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Trump's lawyers wil undoubtedly cross examine the fake electors, and establish that they are lying. Once this is accomplished, then the jury can disregard their testimony, including any affidavits made by them.

They will then go on to prove that Cheseboro coordinated the activities of the fake electors. Trump does not have to be involved directly with the electors to be found guilty of the overreaching conspiracy.

Oh. That's interesting. That really moves the goal posts in favor of the prosecution.

No way the prosecution got this far without evidence and a lot of it. They also have several flippers who will take the stand under penalty of perjury. Don't forget the prosecutor already knows what they will testify to......it won't be a surprise and they will be ready with corroborating evidence......this ain't law a school mock ups!

I still think that Trump's defense team will get the bulk of the charges dropped. Hopefully, that will set the tone for the remainder of charges against Trump.

 

[Deuce]

Maybe so, but they will need more than just hearsay evidence to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Testimony of co-conspirators is not hearsay you people need to stop using words you don't understand.

 

[Ambig]

Oh. That's interesting. That really moves the goal posts in favor of the prosecution.

Let's hope so. The violent-insurrection inciter needs to be put away.

And secret-documents' thief. And extorter of Ukraine for help cheating the election.

And destroyer of our faith in democracy and law enforcement.

Yeah, let's hope the goal posts are set in a favorable position for the prosecution.

 

[Callen]

I'm not.

It is unfathomable to me that you think the prosecutor got this far , including an indictment signed by a judge, without hard evidence. The on;ly question will be whether the jury believes it.

Maybe so, but they will need more than just hearsay evidence to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Trump's lawyers wil undoubtedly cross examine the fake electors, and establish that they are lying. Once this is accomplished, then the jury can disregard their testimony, including any affidavits made by them.

If you think experienced prosecutors are going to put witnesses on the stand without being able to fully corroborate their testimony.....you are living in Perry Mason land.

Oh. That's interesting. That really moves the goal posts in favor of the prosecution.

Apparently you didn't read the indictment...probably should give it a read before claiming there is no evidence.

I still think that Trump's defense team will get the bulk of the charges dropped. Hopefully, that will set the tone for the remainder of charges against Trump.

No they won't . This will be left to a jury as it should be.

 

[SkyChief]

Let's hope so. The violent-insurrection inciter needs to be put away.

And secret-documents' thief. And extorter of Ukraine for help cheating the election.

And destroyer of our faith in democracy and law enforcement.

Yeah, let's hope the goal posts are set in a favorable position for the prosecution.

Because of the complexity of this trial, and the tremendous number of charges brought against Trump, the trial will likely take a couple years to complete. It's likely that Trump will have been President for a year before the case is concluded.

 

[Ikari]

Three Trump codefendants say they became false electors at Trump's 'direction'

Shawn Still, Cathleen Latham and David Shafer are Georgia Republicans charged alongside the former president in a racketeering conspiracy to subvert the 2020 election.

www.politico.com

Associate with Donald Trump and bad things happen, you get charged with racketeering and forgery.

Trump coordinating efforts to overturn the election!!?? What's next....the sky is blue?

 

[ClaraD]

They are lying.

proof? Oh, you never think you should provide proof...false accusation that you just made.

 

[ClaraD]

If they don't have some actual evidence...their word won't cut it...they can say whatever they want and nothing will happen to Trump.

why would a false elector invent the entire scheme? What is the benefit to them to do it in the first place?

 

[Mycroft]

why would a false elector invent the entire scheme? What is the benefit to them to do it in the first place?

What scheme are you talking about?

 

[ClaraD]

What scheme are you talking about?

wtf are you on this thread if you do not know?