Thousands of refugees from Syria pour over the border into Iraqi Kurdistan

[Higgins86]

BBC News - Syria refugees pour into Iraqi Kurdistan in thousands


Up to 10,000 crossed at Peshkhabour on Saturday, bringing the total influx since Thursday to 20,000. The UN says the reasons are not fully clear.

The UN agencies, the Kurdish regional government and NGOs are struggling to cope, correspondents say.



This is one of the biggest waves of refuges in the region for a long time and will no doubt bring more instability in an already unstable region. Syria has been at a steady boil for the past year and is starting to boil over and I think western intervention may be needed to prevent this conflict spreading into other regions.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

BBC News - Syria refugees pour into Iraqi Kurdistan in thousands


Up to 10,000 crossed at Peshkhabour on Saturday, bringing the total influx since Thursday to 20,000. The UN says the reasons are not fully clear.

The UN agencies, the Kurdish regional government and NGOs are struggling to cope, correspondents say.



This is one of the biggest waves of refuges in the region for a long time and will no doubt bring more instability in an already unstable region. Syria has been at a steady boil for the past year and is starting to boil over and I think western intervention may be needed to prevent this conflict spreading into other regions.

By western intervention I assume you mean the US. Screw that!

 

[ttwtt78640]

By western intervention I assume you mean the US. Screw that!

Unless we are really ready to fight the great Jihad then it is best to just let them wipe each other out for a while.

 

[Higgins86]

By western intervention I assume you mean the US. Screw that!

given the fact the US hasn't lead the way on a conflict like this for nearly 20 years no I wasn't referring to the US. Your president doesn't like to take big risks on FP anyway and France, UK and other Nato forces handled Libya in a professional/ efficient way.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

given the fact the US hasn't lead the way on a conflict like this for nearly 20 years no I wasn't referring to the US. Your president doesn't like to take big risks on FP anyway and France, UK and other Nato forces handled Libya in a professional/ efficient way.

Libya was 90% US unfortunately, the whole NATO thing is a sham.

 

[Grant]

given the fact the US hasn't lead the way on a conflict like this for nearly 20 years no I wasn't referring to the US. Your president doesn't like to take big risks on FP anyway and France, UK and other Nato forces handled Libya in a professional/ efficient way.

Then there doesn't seem to be a clear reason why they can't do it again.

 

[Grant]

Libya was 90% US unfortunately, the whole NATO thing is a sham.

Maybe Obama should lead from behind again. That seems to work well.

 

[Higgins86]

Then doesn't seem to be a clear reason why they can't do it again.

Yes I agree. I never mentioned the US.

 

[Higgins86]

Libya was 90% US unfortunately, the whole NATO thing is a sham.

in terms of fire power? Support? Maybe although 90% is a high number.

Libya worked well because the US doesn't want to lead these interventions, the world doesn't want them to and its just so much more effective if the US sits back and lets other countries take the steering wheel.

 

[ttwtt78640]

given the fact the US hasn't lead the way on a conflict like this for nearly 20 years no I wasn't referring to the US. Your president doesn't like to take big risks on FP anyway and France, UK and other Nato forces handled Libya in a professional/ efficient way.

Thus the great success that is Lybia today can be attributed to those allied forces.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Yes I agree. I never mentioned the US.

France had nothing but reconnaissance aircraft in Libya, US did all the actuall bombing as I recall.

 

[Higgins86]

Thus the great success that is Lybia today can be attributed to those allied forces.

got rid of a dictator pretty fast and the fighting stopped a lot faster than Libya so yes it was a success.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

in terms of fire power? Support? Maybe although 90% is a high number.

Libya worked well because the US doesn't want to lead these interventions, the world doesn't want them to and its just so much more effective if the US sits back and lets other countries take the steering wheel.

So you mean the US should take its orders from NATO, do all the actual work while everyone else "steers"?

 

[Higgins86]

France had nothing but reconnaissance aircraft in Libya, US did all the actuall bombing as I recall.

US and UK subs launched Tomahawks as well as engaging from the Air but the French also were involved especially in the Second Battle of Benghazi. So you recalled wrong.

 

[ttwtt78640]

got rid of a dictator pretty fast and the fighting stopped a lot faster than Libya so yes it was a success.

We got rid of UBL (although not very fast) and US fighting will stop next year (according to Obama) - does that make Afghanistan a success too?

 

[Higgins86]

We got rid of UBL (although not very fast) and US fighting will stop next year (according to Obama) - does that make Afghanistan a success too?

no because we still have troops on the ground. How many troops did we deploy to Libya?

 

[Higgins86]

So you mean the US should take its orders from NATO, do all the actual work while everyone else "steers"?

Opération Harmattan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


actual work. Educate yourself.

 

[ttwtt78640]

no because we still have troops on the ground. How many troops did we deploy to Libya?

Sorry, that is classified.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Opération Harmattan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


actual work. Educate yourself.

Here is the breakdown and the US did virtually everything in Libya.


Nato operations in Libya by country

Click heading to sort. Download this data



Country


no. of personnel


No. of air- craft


Est no. of sorties flown, from beg of war until 5 May 2011


no. of cruise missiles fired


Main air base





Download this data


Belgium 170 6 60 Araxos base in south-western greece
Bulgaria 160 0 0
Canada 560 11 358 Trapani-Birgi and Sigonella
Denmark 120 4 161 0 Sigonella, Sicily
France 800 29 1,200 currently operating from French Air Bases of Avord, Nancy, St Dizier, Dijon and Istres, as well as Evreux and Orléans for planes engaged in logistics.
Greece 0 0 0 Aktion and Andravida military air fields in Crete
Italy 12 600 Gioia del Colle, Trapani, Sigonella, Decimomannu, Amendola, Aviano, Pantelleria
Jordan 30 12 Cerenecia, Libya
Netherlands 200 7 sardinian base, decimomannu
Norway 140 6 100 Souda Bay, Crete
Qatar 60 8 Souda Bay, Crete
Romania 205
Spain 500 7
Sweden 122 8 78 0 Sigonella
Turkey 6 Sigonella Air Base in Italy
UAE 35 12 Decimomannu, Sardinia
UK 1300 28 1,300 18 Gioia del Colle, Italy and RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus
US 8507 153 2,000 228
TOTALS 12,909 309 5,857 246

 

[Higgins86]

Here is the breakdown and the US did virtually everything in Libya.


Nato operations in Libya by country

Click heading to sort. Download this data



Country


no. of personnel


No. of air- craft


Est no. of sorties flown, from beg of war until 5 May 2011


no. of cruise missiles fired


Main air base





Download this data


Belgium 170 6 60 Araxos base in south-western greece
Bulgaria 160 0 0
Canada 560 11 358 Trapani-Birgi and Sigonella
Denmark 120 4 161 0 Sigonella, Sicily
France 800 29 1,200 currently operating from French Air Bases of Avord, Nancy, St Dizier, Dijon and Istres, as well as Evreux and Orléans for planes engaged in logistics.
Greece 0 0 0 Aktion and Andravida military air fields in Crete
Italy 12 600 Gioia del Colle, Trapani, Sigonella, Decimomannu, Amendola, Aviano, Pantelleria
Jordan 30 12 Cerenecia, Libya
Netherlands 200 7 sardinian base, decimomannu
Norway 140 6 100 Souda Bay, Crete
Qatar 60 8 Souda Bay, Crete
Romania 205
Spain 500 7
Sweden 122 8 78 0 Sigonella
Turkey 6 Sigonella Air Base in Italy
UAE 35 12 Decimomannu, Sardinia
UK 1300 28 1,300 18 Gioia del Colle, Italy and RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus
US 8507 153 2,000 228
TOTALS 12,909 309 5,857 246

Yeh you have the biggest military in the world so....

But you stated before that only the US were the only country involved in the bombing of Libya which of course isn't true. The US will be involved in most worldwide conflicts in some form mostly because your military arm stretches around the globe but it doesn't have to be the "face" of every conflict. I would be happy if the US provided tactical support, military resources in the Syrian conflict but would not want the US's military involved in too much of the heavy lifting.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Yeh you have the biggest military in the world so....

But you stated before that only the US were the only country involved in the bombing of Libya which of course isn't true. The US will be involved in most worldwide conflicts in some form mostly because your military arm stretches around the globe but it doesn't have to be the "face" of every conflict. I would be happy if the US provided tactical support, military resources in the Syrian conflict but would not want the US's military involved in too much of the heavy lifting.

Depends what the word "only" means.:lol: My 90% statement seems pretty damn accurate though and when we do 90% of a NATO action we are NATO, everyone else is just window dressing so if you guys want to intervene in Libya go right ahead but leave US out of it. Good luck.

 

[Higgins86]

Depends what the word "only" means.:lol: My 90% statement seems pretty damn accurate though and when we do 90% of a NATO action we are NATO, everyone else is just window dressing so if you guys want to intervene in Libya go right ahead but leave US out of it. Good luck.

I think we are at a cross-roads right now! The US public, media and Government seem to be trying to move away from US military intervention in foreign conflicts/wars which of course is understandable given the decade long struggle and thousands of American dead. I really feel like Europe has a responsibility to step up and take some of this burden off Americas hands, the UK has fought side by side with the US for decades but I would love us to take the lead in Europe and start becoming less dependent on US military help.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

I think we are at a cross-roads right now! The US public, media and Government seem to be trying to move away from US military intervention in foreign conflicts/wars which of course is understandable given the decade long struggle and thousands of American dead. I really feel like Europe has a responsibility to step up and take some of this burden off Americas hands, the UK has fought side by side with the US for decades but I would love us to take the lead in Europe and start becoming less dependent on US military help.

Sounds like we basically agree then.

 

[Grant]

I think we are at a cross-roads right now! The US public, media and Government seem to be trying to move away from US military intervention in foreign conflicts/wars which of course is understandable given the decade long struggle and thousands of American dead. I really feel like Europe has a responsibility to step up and take some of this burden off Americas hands, the UK has fought side by side with the US for decades but I would love us to take the lead in Europe and start becoming less dependent on US military help.

The problem appears to be that many people in Europe, at least of this generation, know how to enjoy freedom but don't know how to protect it. The idea that those living in the democracies should fight and die for the liberties of people living elsewhere seems foreign to them now.

Of course I could be wrong.

 

[Higgins86]

The problem appears to be that many people in Europe, at least of this generation, know how to enjoy freedom but don't know how to protect it. The idea that those living in the democracies should fight and die for the liberties of people living elsewhere seems foreign to them now.

Of course I could be wrong.

the problem is that central Europe has taken a back stage and has watched the US,UK, Canada etc take the center stage for many conflicts while they stood by. This has to change and the EU has to be the first to change perceptions.