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Thou shall not kill

Can you kill in the name of GOD?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • Under extreme circumstances - Yes; Generally - No.

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • Total voters
    16
Just to let you know Billo I wasn't talking about the wars we have going on right now. You said that God was against war and I assumed you meant all war which is not true. Whether he is for the war in Iraq or not I do not know. I don't think he is because I feel that if he was it wouldn't be going as badly or maybe it is just a lack of faith either way i don't think he is for the war in Iraq or any war going on right now.
 
I said yes because it is impossible to have life without death.....not even the Jainists could escape it.

Now, if you meant, kill humans, well, it depends on how you percieve the consequences of your actions and how you will judge they effect others. If you feel, and logically believe that killing person X in a certain situation then by all means do so. However, if you use logic, you will have to take into consideration you will most likely be caught, jailed or perhaps put to death. And you look at it from an emotional point of view, you will have to take into consideration how horrible your friends, and the friends and family of the victim will feel after commit such an act.

And if someone uses god as a reason in his/her reasoning, then yes you can kill in the name of god
 
So do you think that all wars, which almost always involve killing, are unjust?

Or do you just believe that there are wars that need to be fought, and a supernatural being wouldn't support them?

If you argue against all wars then I'd be forced to partake in the debate.
 
I'm starting this thread to argue the points that:
  • Jihad is a myth
  • You cannot kill in the name of GOD
  • You do not have GOD's blessing when you choose to take a life
  • Bullshit Christians are just as evil as Islamic Fascists
  • Many people mis-interpret the Bible for selfish reason's
So my basic premise is...

...and if you think God approves of war and he killing of his children, by all means, go for it homie!

State your case...


Have you ever actually read the bible?It is full of violence and harsh punishments for violating various commandments.
 
The 6th commandment says not to murder without condition. Which means even if someone is firing bullets at you, you can't kill that person in self defense without getting sin. Yes, I think its nearly impossible to enforce laws with this without getting sin, but thats the commandment without any exceptions.

Have you ever actually read the bible?It is full of violence and harsh punishments for violating various commandments.

Yes I have read the bible.
Have you ever read the bible? Its actually full of forgiveness for violating various commandments.

# Joh 8:1-11

* "The Woman Caught in Adultery" - 1 {Then everyone went home, but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early the next morning he went back to the Temple. All the people gathered around him, and he sat down and began to teach them. 3 The teachers of the Law and the Pharisees brought in a woman who had been caught committing adultery, and they made her stand before them all. 4 "Teacher," they said to Jesus, "this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 In our Law Moses commanded that such a woman must be stoned to death. Now, what do you say?" 6 They said this to trap Jesus, so that they could accuse him. But he bent over and wrote on the ground with his finger. 7 As they stood there asking him questions, he straightened up and said to them, "Whichever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone at her." 8 Then he bent over again and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard this, they all left, one by one, the older ones first. Jesus was left alone, with the woman still standing there. 10 He straightened up and said to her, "Where are they? Is there no one left to condemn you?" 11 "No one, sir," she answered. "Well, then," Jesus said, "I do not condemn you either. Go, but do not sin again."}
 
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* "The Woman Caught in Adultery" - 1 {Then everyone went home, but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early the next morning he went back to the Temple. All the people gathered around him, and he sat down and began to teach them. 3 The teachers of the Law and the Pharisees brought in a woman who had been caught committing adultery, and they made her stand before them all. 4 "Teacher," they said to Jesus, "this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 In our Law Moses commanded that such a woman must be stoned to death. Now, what do you say?" 6 They said this to trap Jesus, so that they could accuse him. But he bent over and wrote on the ground with his finger. 7 As they stood there asking him questions, he straightened up and said to them, "Whichever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone at her." 8 Then he bent over again and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard this, they all left, one by one, the older ones first. Jesus was left alone, with the woman still standing there. 10 He straightened up and said to her, "Where are they? Is there no one left to condemn you?" 11 "No one, sir," she answered. "Well, then," Jesus said, "I do not condemn you either. Go, but do not sin again."}

Yes, yes, a lovely sentiment.
Trouble is, there's that pesky Old Testament to contend with; you can't ditch it entirely, because without the ten commandments, then where would Christians be?
Coincidentally, when God spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai (this was during the same discussion where he passed along the Big Ten), he also passed along a rather interesting prescription for dealing with wayward wives (or even virtuous wives, if their husbands happened to get a wild hair up their arses and suspect they were cheating).
It went a little something like this:

11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
12 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, Whosesoever wife shall transgress against him, and slight and despise him,
13 and supposing any one shall lie with her carnally, and the thing shall be hid from the eyes of her husband, and she should conceal it and be herself defiled, and there be no witness with her, and she should not be taken;
14 and there should come upon him a spirit of jealousy, and he should be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled; or there should come upon him a spirit of jealousy, and he should be jealous of his wife, and she should not be defiled;
15 then shall the man bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring his gift for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley-meal: he shall not pour oil upon it, neither shall he put frankincense upon it; for it is a sacrifice of jealousy, a sacrifice of memorial, recalling sin to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her, and cause her to stand before the Lord.
17 And the priest shall take pure running water in an earthen vessel, and he shall take of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle of witness, and the priest having taken it shall cast it into the water.
18 And the priest shall cause the woman to stand before the Lord, and shall uncover the head of the woman, and shall put into her hands the sacrifice of memorial, the sacrifice of jealousy; and in the hand of the priest shall be the water of this conviction that brings the curse.
19 And the priest shall adjure her, and shall say to the woman, If no one has lain with thee, and if thou hast not transgressed so as to be polluted, being under the power of thy husband, be free from this water of the conviction that causes the curse.
20 But if being a married woman thou hast transgressed, or been polluted, and any one has lain with thee, beside thy husband:
21 then the priest shall adjure the woman by the oaths of this curse, and the priest shall say to the woman, The Lord bring thee into a curse and under an oath in the midst of thy people, in that the Lord should cause thy thigh to rot and thy belly to swell;
22 and this water bringing the curse shall enter into thy womb to cause thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot. And the woman shall say, So be it, So be it.
23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and shall blot them out with the water of the conviction that brings the curse.
24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the water of the conviction that brings the curse; and the water of the conviction that brings the curse shall enter into her.
25 And the priest shall take from the hand of the woman the sacrifice of jealousy, and shall present the sacrifice before the Lord, and shall bring it to the altar.
26 And the priest shall take a handful of the sacrifice as a memorial of it, and shall offer it up upon the altar; and afterwards he shall cause the woman to drink the water.
27 And it shall come to pass, if she be defiled, and have altogether escaped the notice of her husband, then the water of the conviction that brings the curse shall enter into her; and she shall swell in her belly, and her thigh shall rot, and the woman shall be for a curse in the midst of her people.
28 But if the woman have not been polluted, and be clean, then shall she be guiltless and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousy, wherein a married woman should happen to transgress, and be defiled;
30 or in the case of a man on whomsoever the spirit of jealousy should come, and he should be jealous of his wife, and he should place his wife before the Lord, and the priest shall execute towards her all this law.
31 Then the man shall be clear from sin, and that woman shall bear her sin.

(Numbers 5, verses 11-31)

Yep, that wacky, lovable Old Testament God... more fun than a sack of dead kittens. :?

Of course, Jesus came to do away with all the old laws, making the Old Testament irrelevant... except the parts we find useful and convenient, like the Ten Commandments and the parts where God instructs us to discriminate against homosexuals, right?
Not exactly.

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)

"For the law was given by Moses..." (John 1:17)

"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John 7:19)

"I and the Father are one." -Jesus Christ (John 10:30)

"...the scripture cannot be broken." -Jesus Christ (John 10:35)
 
1069, all that you quoted did not contradict the statement that the 6th commandment says that murder regardless of conditions and is sin. There are only a few (i think 3) specific killings in the bible yet there is no text saying that god condoned the specific action or the verses could even be figurative language.
And I don't know why your quoting verses (are you trying to downplay Christianity?)


Of course, Jesus came to do away with all the old laws, making the Old Testament irrelevant... except the parts we find useful and convenient, like the Ten Commandments and the parts where God instructs us to discriminate against homosexuals, right?
Not exactly.

god didn't instruct people to discriminate against homosexuals. In fact he instructed us not to judge others or take action into our own hands. Not only that, (according to the bible) homosexuals sin when they actually have homosexual intercourse, just as masturbation is also a sin.


Heres my responses to a few

"For the law was given by Moses..." (John 1:17)

It was given by moses through the 10 commandments.

"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John 7:19)

Your misquoting,

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: John 7:19

Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Notice the question mark that is questioning? Its done all the time on these forums. The passage essentially questions the user reading it, it doesn't make a statement.


"I and the Father are one." -Jesus Christ (John 10:30)

Both Jesus and god share (have) the same blood (figuratively AND literally speaking for your info), Jesus can perform the same miracles and do the same things god can and have the same objectives.

"...the scripture cannot be broken." -Jesus Christ (John 10:35)

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: John 10:35;

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Notice the 3 periods? Yeah, a common way to fool people about what a statement means by taking out part of it.



Anyways when you die, you better hope theres not an afterlife :mrgreen: .
 
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Notice the 3 periods? Yeah, a common way to fool people about what a statement means by taking out part of it.

Not that this is either here nor there...but I think that there wasn't any punctuation in old Hebrew texts--nor spaces between words--let alone verses etc...

Ah...but you were quoting NT which would be Greek...hmmm ignore me...:mrgreen:
 
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