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They Told Me That If I Voted For Mitt Romney...

Expect more of this from Karsai as he prepares to get closer to the "terrorist" leaders. The US gravy train is running out of track as the wind down progresses. Karsai is all about Karsai, like Obama is all about Obama. Knowing the US "victory" date, Karsai must face the new reality of the post US Afghanistan, where he then rules only as long as the "terrorists" allow him to. ;)
 
I dont beleive our guys cut off the guys fingers. Just sayin.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Expect more of this from Karsai as he prepares to get closer to the "terrorist" leaders. The US gravy train is running out of track as the wind down progresses. Karsai is all about Karsai, like Obama is all about Obama. Knowing the US "victory" date, Karsai must face the new reality of the post US Afghanistan, where he then rules only as long as the "terrorists" allow him to. ;)
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A lot of this is the U.S.’s fault for forcing Democracy on the Afghans. Afghani’s want local tribal rule, not being ruled by Karzi from Kabul or the Taliban from Kabul. Each tribe had it own little area prior to the Taliban trying to take over the entire country, each tribe had its own leaders and depending on circumstances and need, they would form loose alliances with other tribes now and then. But each tribe ruled its own. The Taliban along with 2 or 3 other tribes decided they wanted to rule all of Afghanistan and came close to doing so. They were opposed by the 14 tribe, much smaller tribes but very independent witch only wanted self rule, to be ruled by their own tribal leaders. This is the sie we came into Afghanistan, to help those tribes regain self tribal rule and to drive the Taliban and their coherts out of Afghanistan. The 14 tribes were known as the Northern Alliance. Once the Taliban was driven out, all these 14 tribes wanted was to go back to the land that was once theirs and revert to individual tribal rule.

But we knew better, we started nation building and forcing Democracy upon these people who didn’t want anything to do with it. We basically installed Karzi and now he and his tribe are looked upon as just another Taliban group who wants to rule and impose rule from Kabul. This is probably the main reason why you have inside or government troops turning on us.

Personally I do not think Karzi will last too long, he know the majority of tribes are against him. I think, although I have no proof of this he is trying to form an alliance with the Taliban to keep him in power. Being allied to the largest tribe would be a great asset and Karzi is acting like this is his goal. The past actions he has took and the actions he is presently doing leads me to believe this.
 
Perotista said:
A lot of this is the U.S.’s fault for forcing Democracy on the Afghans. Afghani’s want local tribal rule, not being ruled by Karzi from Kabul or the Taliban from Kabul. Each tribe had it own little area prior to the Taliban trying to take over the entire country, each tribe had its own leaders and depending on circumstances and need, they would form loose alliances with other tribes now and then. But each tribe ruled its own. The Taliban along with 2 or 3 other tribes decided they wanted to rule all of Afghanistan and came close to doing so. They were opposed by the 14 tribe, much smaller tribes but very independent witch only wanted self rule, to be ruled by their own tribal leaders. This is the sie we came into Afghanistan, to help those tribes regain self tribal rule and to drive the Taliban and their coherts out of Afghanistan. The 14 tribes were known as the Northern Alliance. Once the Taliban was driven out, all these 14 tribes wanted was to go back to the land that was once theirs and revert to individual tribal rule.

But we knew better, we started nation building and forcing Democracy upon these people who didn’t want anything to do with it. We basically installed Karzi and now he and his tribe are looked upon as just another Taliban group who wants to rule and impose rule from Kabul. This is probably the main reason why you have inside or government troops turning on us.

Personally I do not think Karzi will last too long, he know the majority of tribes are against him. I think, although I have no proof of this he is trying to form an alliance with the Taliban to keep him in power. Being allied to the largest tribe would be a great asset and Karzi is acting like this is his goal. The past actions he has took and the actions he is presently doing leads me to believe this.
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Bush used 9/11/2001 to establish and keep a military presense in Afghanistan, for "regional" purposes, and to increase defense spending (the republicant priority), not to build anything "lasting" in Afghanistan. As you say Afghanistan is, has been, and always will be a tribal region but they are powerless to resist (oust) any superpower, they simply take bribes and enjoy our "rental" (at 1000x market value) of their turf (the Russians saw this as a waste and gave up, backing Iran instead). Obama is winding down the massive Bush spending in the region, but has no intention of EVER reducing overall federal spending, simply shifting that federal spending from defense to income redistribution programs to help keep demorats in power. Every federal defense dollar Obama takes reduces republicant power, while increasing demorat power, by reassigning that federal dollar to support an entitlement (PPACA?) program.
 
rocket88 said:
So Obama's military works the same as Bush's. And you're upset about it now because...?
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The point is to mock Obama's liberal supporters.
 
mak2 said:
I dont beleive our guys cut off the guys fingers. Just sayin.
Click to expand...

Of course they didn't. But if Bush were president all the usual suspects would take these claims at face value and scream bloody murder from the roof tops for days on end.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Expect more of this from Karsai as he prepares to get closer to the "terrorist" leaders. The US gravy train is running out of track as the wind down progresses. Karsai is all about Karsai, like Obama is all about Obama. Knowing the US "victory" date, Karsai must face the new reality of the post US Afghanistan, where he then rules only as long as the "terrorists" allow him to. ;)
Click to expand...

Good post. It was ridiculous to ever think we could one day leave Afghanistan in the hands of a domestic regime that would actually act as an ally or represent our interests. Of course, it barely matters what kind of person is left "in charge" of their government since Afghanistan is and long has been far too unstable to be controlled by an kind of central authority. It's not a real country, just an uncontrollable region of waste and turmoil.
 
Perotista said:
A lot of this is the U.S.’s fault for forcing Democracy on the Afghans. Afghani’s want local tribal rule, not being ruled by Karzi from Kabul or the Taliban from Kabul. Each tribe had it own little area prior to the Taliban trying to take over the entire country, each tribe had its own leaders and depending on circumstances and need, they would form loose alliances with other tribes now and then. But each tribe ruled its own. The Taliban along with 2 or 3 other tribes decided they wanted to rule all of Afghanistan and came close to doing so. They were opposed by the 14 tribe, much smaller tribes but very independent witch only wanted self rule, to be ruled by their own tribal leaders. This is the sie we came into Afghanistan, to help those tribes regain self tribal rule and to drive the Taliban and their coherts out of Afghanistan. The 14 tribes were known as the Northern Alliance. Once the Taliban was driven out, all these 14 tribes wanted was to go back to the land that was once theirs and revert to individual tribal rule.

But we knew better, we started nation building and forcing Democracy upon these people who didn’t want anything to do with it. We basically installed Karzi and now he and his tribe are looked upon as just another Taliban group who wants to rule and impose rule from Kabul. This is probably the main reason why you have inside or government troops turning on us.

Personally I do not think Karzi will last too long, he know the majority of tribes are against him. I think, although I have no proof of this he is trying to form an alliance with the Taliban to keep him in power. Being allied to the largest tribe would be a great asset and Karzi is acting like this is his goal. The past actions he has took and the actions he is presently doing leads me to believe this.
Click to expand...

Tribal rule never left. The Afghani government may control areas like Kabul, but beyond such urban centers, the concept of a national government is a farce. Local warlords and tribal control still rule out there, and it will only be moreso once the US is gone. Invading and occupying Iraq only made the region more unstable, but Afghanistan was already so unstable before we invaded, that's its just going to be the same old story when we leave.
 
I hope Karzai just completely kicks us out of Afghanistan...

Of course if he tried he'd probably be dead within a week via a "terrorist" attack.
 
Philly Boss said:
Tribal rule never left. The Afghani government may control areas like Kabul, but beyond such urban centers, the concept of a national government is a farce. Local warlords and tribal control still rule out there, and it will only be moreso once the US is gone. Invading and occupying Iraq only made the region more unstable, but Afghanistan was already so unstable before we invaded, that's its just going to be the same old story when we leave.
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I totally agree. All nation building and forcing democracy on the Afghani's did was turned around 10-12 of the 14 tribes that were on our side against us. Perhaps Bush Jr. and Obama ought to co-author a book together, "How to turn friends into Enemies."
 
Perotista said:
I totally agree. All nation building and forcing democracy on the Afghani's did was turned around 10-12 of the 14 tribes that were on our side against us. Perhaps Bush Jr. and Obama ought to co-author a book together, "How to turn friends into Enemies."
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Yeah, but the premise that 1, it's Americas place to unilaterally intervene in another country's domestic governance through military force and 2, that its even possible to impose western values on a culture completely unlike ours, is sadly entrenched in US foreign policy in a way that goes way deeper than Bush or Obama. I do think Hagel is a small step in the right direction, but one president or one cabinet secretary doesn't change the overwhelming conventional thought in established foreign policy circles.
 
Philly Boss said:
Yeah, but the premise that 1, it's Americas place to unilaterally intervene in another country's domestic governance through military force and 2, that its even possible to impose western values on a culture completely unlike ours, is sadly entrenched in US foreign policy in a way that goes way deeper than Bush or Obama. I do think Hagel is a small step in the right direction, but one president or one cabinet secretary doesn't change the overwhelming conventional thought in established foreign policy circles.
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Again I agree. Conventional thought as you put probably goes all the way back to the Spanish American War. That one might have been the first media created war. The newspapers publishing atrocities of the Spanish upon the Cuban people got the public all riled up and ready to go to war whether true or not.
 
LowDown said:
Of course they didn't. But if Bush were president all the usual suspects would take these claims at face value and scream bloody murder from the roof tops for days on end.
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I can't believe you are bringing up Abu Gharab again. Don't you know it is the lowest our military has ever stooped and it was Dick and Rummy's gig? It made the shrubbery look pretty bad too. I just got another one of chills again too. Cut it out.
 
iguanaman said:
I can't believe you are bringing up Abu Gharab again. Don't you know it is the lowest our military has ever stooped and it was Dick and Rummy's gig? It made the shrubbery look pretty bad too. I just got another one of chills again too. Cut it out.
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It was criminal and prosecuted, not an act of the military.
 
ecofarm said:
It was criminal and prosecuted, not an act of the military.
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Don't tell me you think the prosecutions went all the way to the top and yes military personnel were involved
 
iguanaman said:
Don't tell me you think the prosecutions went all the way to the top and yes military personnel were involved
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So, even if an act is clearly defined as criminal and the criminals are prosecuted for their actions, you will conspiracy theory your way into still calling it a military action? Don't you think that's intellectually dishonest in attempt to affirm a preconceived radical bias and perpetuate an illegit attack on the "other"?

As no one can defeat your conspiracy theory, I guess that's it. Anything to crap on the US military, ay?
 
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