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'They quit after a few hours': Farmers admit they can't find American workers

RF667799 said:
I'm not beholden to accept the opinions of "multiple international treaties" either. If they want to let rapists and murders roam around freely in society, they're completely stupid.
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Again, why do you think the only options are torturing people in solitary confinement or "letting rapists and murderers roam around freely in society"?
 
Questerr said:
Again, why do you think the only options are torturing people in solitary confinement or "letting rapists and murderers roam around freely in society"?
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For one thing, you haven't told me what creature comforts and socializing opportunities you would provide for someone like John Wayne Gacey. What does society owe a person like that? I think I'm pretty magnanimous in my views, considering what many people would figure that society owed him. Including one of his fellow comrades in the gray bar hotel.

For the other thing, I don't have to accept your opinion on what constitutes torture, when it seems so broad that locking someone up at all might constitute torture.
 
Peter said:
Are the workers living in Mexico while working in the US?

If not they face the same cost of living problems as every other American and the situation in Mexico doesn't matter.
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Not for their families.

And then they return home loaded with massive less cost of living.
 
RF667799 said:
For one thing, you haven't told me what creature comforts and socializing opportunities you would provide for someone like John Wayne Gacey. What does society owe a person like that? I think I'm pretty magnanimous in my views, considering what many people would figure that society owed him. Including one of his fellow comrades in the gray bar hotel.

For the other thing, I don't have to accept your opinion on what constitutes torture, when it seems so broad that locking someone up at all might constitute torture.
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How about the equivalents of other prisons in the rest of the developed world?

I get it. You are okay with torturing people you see as subhuman and lack empathy for. That’s pretty standard for conservatives.

“Locking someone up” isn’t torture and you are being deliberately dishonest if you claim anyone has said it is. Solitary confinement is torture.
 
Girlpower said:
I am willing to pay an extra few cents to ensure farm workers are paid a decent wage, have rights, and are in a safe work environment.

It's sad so many of you aren't.

You are some very cold people.
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Someone failed to learn a lesson on supply chains, lol.

You won't be paying a fee cents more.

lol
 
multivita-man said:
Here's the deal: we have 8 billion people and counting on the planet. We're able to sustain this population (not uniformly, by the way) because of efficiencies in production. One of those efficiencies is labor. Start ****ing with those efficiencies and you're going to have starvation and food affordability crises in short order, and that is the sort of thing that leads to political violence and revolution. Full stop.
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The problem is we've dug such a deep hole for ourselves over the decades, we are now dependent. Unless of course you believe this as a good thing, importing global labour as a global economic commodity?

Don't you see this as at least distasteful? To bring-in desperate underprivileged third-worlder's, to work under working conditions and pay American's find unviable?

The only reason I might go along with this idea may be due the seasonal demand aspects of the employment. If we simply don't have the labour pool, regardless of the pay rate and conditions offered. And then only with pay and conditions commensurate with what Americans expect.

Otherwise, I believe these jobs should be subject to free-market forces. Pay enough, and offer reasonable enough working conditions, and Americans - if desairing employment - will work those jobs.

One final note: Obviously, we can't shock the system by making changes overnight. But I'd like to try to slowly & gradually shift to a free-market employment model, to see if Americans really won't work these jobs. Because the same has been said about many other jobs Americans supposedly "won't work", yet in my youth - many of my American friends and neighbors did indeed work those jobs.
 
Questerr said:
How about the equivalents of other prisons in the rest of the developed world?

I get it. You are okay with torturing people you see as subhuman and lack empathy for. That’s pretty standard for conservatives.

“Locking someone up” isn’t torture and you are being deliberately dishonest if you claim anyone has said it is. Solitary confinement is torture.
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So what about those creature comforts and socializing activities you would allow for John Wayne Gacey?

RF667799 said:
I don't think being confined to a cell is inhumane. I think it demonstrates a great humanity and compassion for the victims of violent shit bags, and for those who might have been future victims.

Really though, if you want your position to be that serial rapists and murderers are allowed creature comforts and opportunity to socialize with their fellow outlaws--have at it. I just won't agree that they are owed much other than survival in confinement and safety from violation by their fellow dirt bags.
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The bolding in the above post was your work. Your response to that:
Questerr said:
And actual experts have mountains of evidence that it is.
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When people are locked up, aren't they generally confined to a cell?
 
Girlpower said:
I've always supported raising the minimum wage.

But you are dodging my question on why they can only get migrants to work on farms if its not a pay issue.

It can't be the work because we have lots of landscapers out here in Phoenix working in 100 degree heat doing even harder work.

Ever seen how hard a dishwasher works in a busy restaurant?
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LOL. Here in Phoenix.
 
multivita-man said:
Food prices where I live - and probably where you live, too - are (with the notable exception of eggs) mostly stable. Why? Because we have established systems of production and distribution that work. Considering that illegal labor is like half the workforce, I'd say that this is a remarkably significant input. We mess with that at our own peril -- especially considering how we're simultaneously taxing food imports.
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Oh geezus!

Since when does the rule of law become subordinate to expediency? This is what America's about?

My God, if you look close - I think you'll see her shedding a tear at this . . .


HK_Central_Statue_Square_Legislative_Council_Building_n_Themis_s.jpg
 
Chomsky said:
Oh geez!

Since when does the rule become subordinate to expediency?
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Since last January, for the most part. But since that's rich people raking in the dough and the criminals are white, nobody cares.

But I am sure we can throw the all the illegals out and eat principle.
 
RF667799 said:
So what about those creature comforts and socializing activities you would allow for John Wayne Gacey?


The bolding in the above post was your work. Your response to that:


When people are locked up, aren't they generally confined to a cell?
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When their imprisonment consists solely of being confined to a cell by themselves, that is solitary confinement and every expert in the field confirms it is torture.

Why not simply admit you want to torture people? It would be the honest thing to do.
 
RF667799 said:
So what comforts and socializing opportunities would you allow John Wayne Gacey? We certainly don't want to torture him.
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Wouldn't do much good, he's dead.

Died in prison, as was appropriate. What is your need to add torture to that?
 
Chomsky said:
The problem is we've dug such a deep hole for ourselves over the decades, we are now dependent. Unless of course you believe this as a good thing, importing global labour as a global economic commodity?

Don't you see this as at least distasteful? To bring-in desperate underprivileged third-worlder's, to work under working conditions and pay American's find unviable?

The only reason I might go along with this idea may be due the seasonal demand aspects of the employment. If we simply don't have the labour pool, regardless of the pay rate and conditions offered. And then only with pay and conditions commensurate with what Americans expect.

Otherwise, I believe these jobs should be subject to free-market forces. Pay enough, and offer reasonable enough working conditions, and Americans - if desairing employment - will work those jobs.

One final note: Obviously, we can't shock the system by making changes overnight. But I'd like to try to slowly & gradually shift to a free-market employment model, to see if Americans really won't work these jobs. Because the same has been said about many other jobs Americans supposedly "won't work", yet in my youth - many of my American friends and neighbors did indeed work those jobs.
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"I ain't gonna work digging ditches like my old man! What a sucker!"

Then you find out the old man paid for his son's college education.

There's very little I detest more than elitists looking down their noses at blue collar workers. Well...maybe gun grabbers and litterbugs are right there with them.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Wouldn't do much good, he's dead.

Died in prison, as was appropriate. What is your need to add torture to that?
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So you're happy that his social opportunities allowed someone to get close to him with a shiv.
 
Michael Cole said:
Immigrants have been doing low rung labor since the industrial revolution. Nothing new. These Latino immigrants are capitalists. Far-lefties should hate them based on that.

The immigrant community is flush with small business owners. Latino immigrants are no different than the Italians of 100 years ago, except Latinos assimilate much faster than Italians. They're looking for the American dream. Sadly, the same hatred for European (Catholic) immigrants is now alive pointed at Latinos.

Good Protestant Anglos don't stick pigs. We have these Catholic Poles to do that. <<-- c 1870 Chicago stockyards
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I very much get the "Italian Immigrant" analogy, trust me.

The problem I am having is the high prevalence of illegal workers & employers, along with disrupting free-market wage setting.
 
Questerr said:
When their imprisonment consists solely of being confined to a cell by themselves, that is solitary confinement and every expert in the field confirms it is torture.

Why not simply admit you want to torture people? It would be the honest thing to do.
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Uhh,,,because I've told you that I really don't care if you provide them social activities, enrichment seminars, and 24 hour porn channels? Long as they rot within those walls. I do happen to be mildly opposed to not protecting predators from each other, just on the basis of my general humanity. If you want them to be subject to brutality of the other inmates though- or other inmates to be subject to their brutality- I have no strong objections.
 
RF667799 said:
Uhh,,,because I've told you that I really don't care if you provide them social activities, enrichment seminars, and 24 hour porn channels? Long as they rot within those walls. I do happen to be mildly opposed to not protecting predators from each other, just on the basis of my general humanity. If you want them to be subject to brutality of the other inmates though- or other inmates to be subject to their brutality- I have no strong objections.
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Of course you don’t. We’ve already identified your lack of empathy for other humans.
 
Chomsky said:
Oh geezus!

Since when does the rule of law become subordinate to expediency? This is what America's about?
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At least since the mid-1990s.

I mean we did elect a 34-count felon to office, but somehow we're going to make an example of the people who grow and cook our food? If the rule of law is our concern, we had a chance to make a statement to that effect on November 5, 2024. And we most certainly did. Loud and clear.

Look at my signature @Chomsky. Look at it long and hard. This country is dead. I've had that up for at least a year. I knew we'd vote for Trump, and I knew the chaos he would unleash. And what I can tell you now is, this is the first inning. Shit, this is the ceremonial first pitch. We've seen nothing yet.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Yeah?



Maybe hit google a bit more before you try the gotcha thing.
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I stand corrected. I had him confused with another serial murderer who was done in by his fellow miscreants. Do you count that as a gotchya in your column?

Was he in solitary confinement before the state killed him?

I'm opposed to capital punishment though.
 
Questerr said:
Of course you don’t. We’ve already identified your lack of empathy for other humans.
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You've not told me what comforts and social events should be provided to serial murderers like John Wayne Gacy.
 
RF667799 said:
Uhh,,,because I've told you that I really don't care if you provide them social activities, enrichment seminars, and 24 hour porn channels?
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That's an awesome false dichotomy you have there.
 
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