theism,agnosticism, atheism, morality

[soylentgreen]

In your uninformed opinion.

No only in your lack of ability to refute my opinion. Your bible is a fantasy story and has nothing to do with history. It is a book used by those who want nothing more than to dictate their own neurotic version of morality upon others.

 

[Conaeolos]

Religion is all about control by proclaiming religion to be a moral guidance.

It is a book used by those who want nothing more than to dictate their own neurotic version of morality upon others.

How do you suggest people explore their morality? What book do you find central in spurring the exploration of ones own sense? In what context does a child learn to be noble?

 

[Logician Man]

How do you suggest people explore their morality? What book do you find central in spurring the exploration of ones own sense? In what context does a child learn to be noble?

How about good parenting and common sense?

 

[Conaeolos]

How about good parenting and common sense?

I think we can both agree those are great things. How does that explore morality or is it your belief that is inherit or something?

Torah or bible study, for example, isn't about the stories themselves as much discussing the commentaries and varying interpretations. The discussion being more important.

Do you suggest still having these sorts of things just using anything say "the ethics of Spider-man"?

 

[Logician Man]

I think we can both agree those are great things. How does that explore morality or is it your belief that is inherit or something?

Torah or bible study, for example, isn't about the stories themselves as much discussing the commentaries and varying interpretations. The discussion being more important.

Do you suggest still having these sorts of things just using anything say "the ethics of Spider-man"?

yes. I believe it is inherit.

 

[Conaeolos]

yes. I believe it is inherit.

Interesting. And so immorality is the result of trauma or outside-programming?

 

[Logician Man]

Interesting. And so immorality is the result of trauma or outside-programming?

please define 'outside-programming' so I can properly respond to your question.

 

[Conaeolos]

please define 'outside-programming' so I can properly respond to your question.

In soylentgreen original post he implys religion fits that category. I would certainly include some ideologies there, but I suppose the best example since you said good parenting/common sense would be "destructive beliefs past on from parents or role-models etc". I use programming as patterning is one of the most effective forms of teaching and often is not done consciously.

 

[Logician Man]

In soylentgreen original post he implys religion fits that category. I would certainly include some ideologies there, but I suppose the best example since you said good parenting/common sense would be "destructive beliefs past on from parents or role-models etc". I use programming as patterning is one of the most effective forms of teaching and often is not done consciously.

In that case, immorality, which I personally refer to as bad human behavior, is indeed, in part, due to outside-programming.... emphasis on 'in part'...p.s. Where did I say or imply good parenting/common sense would be 'destructive beliefs past on from parents to role-models,etc'?

 

[Conaeolos]

In that case, immorality, which I personally refer to as bad human behavior, is indeed, in part, due to outside-programming.... emphasis on 'in part'

The biggest factor in that bad human behavior being? In obviously generalized terms.

 

[Logician Man]

The biggest factor in that bad human behavior being? In obviously generalized terms.

life experience....'do unto others'...i.e. common sense tells me it is wrong to transgress another who hasn't transgressed me or or any other innocents. You reap what you so. I don't need a book to tell me these givens.

 

[Quaestio]

How about good parenting and common sense?

"Empathy" is a trait that evolved in humans (and other primates) as it helped to be able to survive in a group if humans could understand how other humans felt. Read about mirror neurones.

Children usually start to show empathy from a very young age and it helps if the parents understand how to encourage it. Rigid authoritarian parenting, shaming, hitting, criticizing etc will hinder the development of empathy in a child.

The Evolution of Empathy
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_evolution_of_empathy

 

[Quaestio]

Interesting. And so immorality is the result of trauma or outside-programming?

Often it is, yes. I think it's more like amorality though, and a lack of empathy.

 

[Daisy]

life experience....'do unto others'...i.e. common sense tells me it is wrong to transgress another who hasn't transgressed me or or any other innocents. You reap what you so. I don't need a book to tell me these givens.

But just think of the heartache you could've saved yourself and others if only you knew them before you had to experience them for yourself...I wish I had taken them more to heart, that's for sure...

 

[Good4Nothin]

All creatures have rules to follow, so all have morality. Bees in a hive know exactly how to treat each other. Even bacteria communicate and cooperate. You can say all that is instinct, but so what. And morality can be observed in the higher mammals, most of whom live in social groups. Their social lives are not chaotic, but structured and governed by rules.

The western bible didn't give us morality. No religion invented morality, they just expressed what was in our animal nature anyway.

 

[soylentgreen]

How do you suggest people explore their morality? What book do you find central in spurring the exploration of ones own sense? In what context does a child learn to be noble?

Should there be any particular way? Through books or play by guidance from elders. Certainly anything is better than a badly written full of contradictions bible.

 

[zyzygy]

Should there be any particular way? Through books or play by guidance from elders. Certainly anything is better than a badly written full of contradictions bible.

The Lord Of The Rings comes to mind. The noble Aragorn is a good role model.

 

[Conaeolos]

Should there be any particular way?

I think so, although it is clear that is not shared by many posters here including yourself.

Through books or play by guidance from elders.

I do not see this happening in secular communities. For the most part I see morality issues left to the individual, which I for one think can be very damaging to children. Now that is certainly not universally true. For example I know Stefan Molyneux, is both an atheist and spends a lot of time and effort in the area of morality. One could even say, for better or worse, he dedicated his life to it.

Certainly anything is better than a badly written full of contradictions bible.

I disagree. Those “badly written full of contradictions” stories have generations and generations of what the Jews call ‘oral Torah’ behind them. Moral commentaries and ideas from elders stretching back an estimated 6000 years or more.

"Empathy" is a trait that evolved in humans (and other primates) as it helped to be able to survive in a group if humans could understand how other humans felt. Read about mirror neurons.

Empathy is tied to the personality trait of agreeableness. Do you then suppose highly agreeable people are more moral? Or average women more moral than average man?

I don't need a book to tell me these givens.

But do you need a moral society in which to in act and have faith in them? Afghanistan for example. Could you act your moral truth you hold here - there? I have my doubts. Do you know much about the craziness plaguing Afghanistan? Rape so common you may witness it in the streets. Child rape even. By officials.

 

[Quaestio]

I think so, although it is clear that is not shared by many posters here including yourself.

I do not see this happening in secular communities. For the most part I see morality issues left to the individual, which I for one think can be very damaging to children. Now that is certainly not universally true. For example I know Stefan Molyneux, is both an atheist and spends a lot of time and effort in the area of morality. One could even say, for better or worse, he dedicated his life to it.

I disagree. Those “badly written full of contradictions” stories have generations and generations of what the Jews call ‘oral Torah’ behind them. Moral commentaries and ideas from elders stretching back an estimated 6000 years or more.

Empathy is tied to the personality trait of agreeableness. Do you then suppose highly agreeable people are more moral? Or average women more moral than average man?

But do you need a moral society in which to in act and have faith in them? Afghanistan for example. Could you act your moral truth you hold here - there? I have my doubts. Do you know much about the craziness plaguing Afghanistan? Rape so common you may witness it in the streets. Child rape even. By officials.

Empathy isn't "tied to the personality trait of agreeableness."

Stefan Molyneax? The ranting alt-right conspiracy theorist YouTuber? Really? Why not Alex Jones too?

 

[Logician Man]

I think so, although it is clear that is not shared by many posters here including yourself.

I do not see this happening in secular communities. For the most part I see morality issues left to the individual, which I for one think can be very damaging to children. Now that is certainly not universally true. For example I know Stefan Molyneux, is both an atheist and spends a lot of time and effort in the area of morality. One could even say, for better or worse, he dedicated his life to it.

I disagree. Those “badly written full of contradictions” stories have generations and generations of what the Jews call ‘oral Torah’ behind them. Moral commentaries and ideas from elders stretching back an estimated 6000 years or more.

Empathy is tied to the personality trait of agreeableness. Do you then suppose highly agreeable people are more moral? Or average women more moral than average man?

But do you need a moral society in which to in act and have faith in them? Afghanistan for example. Could you act your moral truth you hold here - there? I have my doubts. Do you know much about the craziness plaguing Afghanistan? Rape so common you may witness it in the streets. Child rape even. By officials.

your point?

 

[Conaeolos]

Empathy isn't "tied to the personality trait of agreeableness."

Oh okay. So how do you rank/measure empathy or the lack there of?

Stefan Molyneax? The ranting alt-right conspiracy theorist YouTuber?

Yes. And I choose him as an example exactly because his politics would likely conflict with most religious skeptics in this thread. He spends most of his work on morality not politics.

Really? Why not Alex Jones too?

I am 100% sure he’s a Christian.

your point?

Exploring opposites to my belief morality requires a moral education.

 

[Logician Man]

Oh okay. So how do you rank/measure empathy or the lack there of?


Yes. And I choose him as an example exactly because his politics would likely conflict with most religious skeptics in this thread. He spends most of his work on morality not politics.


I am 100% sure he’s a Christian.


Exploring opposites to my belief morality requires a moral education.

A moral education from who,what,where?

 

[Manc Skipper]

Morality is innate in babies. It can be nurtured too.

https://bold.expert/are-children-born-with-an-innate-sense-of-morality/

 

[Quaestio]

A moral education from who,what,where?

From watching nutter ranting and raving YouTubers apparently.

 

[Logician Man]

From watching nutter ranting and raving YouTubers apparently.

:lol: