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The war on terror is a war against Islam

Iriemon

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oldreliable67 said:
Inyuasha,

What does this sound like to you:

"On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it,..."


Source is bin Laden's 1998 fatwa.

Notice that the fatwa is issued to "all Muslims". Notice that the instructions are to kill Americans whether civilian or militrary and to do so wherever possible?

If your still not convinced, just google "salafist" or "salafist jihad" and you'll plenty of evidence.

Are you contending that Osama has the binding authority to issue "fatwahs" on behalf of all muslems? That because Osama said it all, or most, or even many Muslems either agree with it or are bound to follow it? That he speaks for all muslems just be cause he uses those words?

I'm not sure that is accurate. I wasn't aware that Bin Laden had such authority in the Muslem world. I had thought that many of the countries, including his own, Saudi Arabia where is own family is rich and powerful, won't even let him in the county, much less feel bound by his decrees.
 

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Inuyasha said:
Funny you should mention the "Salafistas". Seven were arrested in Spain today and I think 10 last week. They need to be watched (which it appears they are).

In reference to the "Fatwas", first it is my understanding that according to Muslim law bin-Laden or Al-Zarkawe and the like cannot issue a legal fatwa and so their fatwa in any religious terms, are meaningless. That doesn't mean that the content doesn't regester with some more militant Arabs and even North Africans. However it is more like an edict issued by something like "The Aryan Brotherhood" or "Los Guerilleros de Cristo Rey", The last being a group of Catholic militants but witout section of the Church.

It's not weather one is convinced or not. The evidence is there that there are fundamentalist groups in the Arab world that mean us harm. My belief is that if we keep a low profile these people, in typical Arab fashon, will begin to turn on each other as Lawrence notes in his works, thereby saving us quite a bit of trouble, effort, money and loss of human life. The only thing that worries me is the fundamenlists access to dirty nuclear devices.

Rather than a traditional military action, which is proving to be pretty ineffective against these small cells, a better tactic would be covert operations, assassination and infiltration of the bin-Laden type "false profits". But this means changing the whole concept of the West's approach to the situation. Is that possible? You'd have to ask Rumsfeld and his opposite number among the Western nations. Also important in this type of strategy is to let Iran know that we are not going after them. They must be completely convinced of this, actually not matter what strategy is used. To have Iran as an enemy or even in the equation is not a good idea at all. The whole thing must be directed towards Arabs not Kurds or Turks or Persians.

Those are excellent thoughts.

Nothing unifies more effectively that an exterior threat. Case in point: 9/11. The more militant our activities, the more united our opposition will be.
 

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Are you contending that Osama has the binding authority to issue "fatwahs" on behalf of all muslems?

No, of course not. There are what, 2 - 3 billion Muslims in the world, spread over 60-odd countries? But bin Laden's fatwa was subsequently endorsed (if thats the right word) by high (if thats the right descriptive term) mullahs (some of whom are mentioned at the source listed earlier) and thereby given additional credence and wider audience among Muslims.

The title of this thread would be more accurate if it read, "The Radical Islamist War Against the Western World".

a better tactic would be covert operations, assassination and infiltration of the bin-Laden type "false profits".

To reiterate my earlier reply to this post, I don't have any specific information to substantiate it, but I believe that we are doing, or trying to do all of the above and have been for some time. But you and I won't hear very much of it all. In fact, due to its covert nature, the less anyone hears of it, the better. The difficulties involved in our infiltrating the Muslim networks are well-known and was the subject of some criticisms of the CIA's intel gathering efforts (the 9/11 Commish and the Senate Select Intelligence Commit. report both recognized this).
 

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Whether we like it or not Islamists are against us and at war with us, though perhaps not all using terror as a weapon.

FACT: Did you know that what now is Muslim Middle East was once Christian and Jewish Middle East? Yes, 15 centuries ago Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc. (largely excluding the arabian peninsula) were once primarily Christian.

How you migh ask did this land become muslim? War.

The muslims have always been at war with christianity.

Gotta go, explain this in bout 20 minutes. Mom pickin me up from school.
 

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Sorry, i did this on a school computer so i had to post twice because i couldnt edit at home.

Before i start:

Muslims arent allowed to talk about their own doctrines, so dont ask them.

Quote from a muslim:

"I am a new Muslim, and cannot comment on matters of doctrine."
http://www.naqshbandi.org/events/articles/conversion_schwartz.htm



Whether we like it or not Islamists are against us and at war with us, though perhaps not all using terror as a weapon.

FACT: Did you know that what now is Muslim Middle East was once Christian and Jewish Middle East? Yes, 15 centuries ago Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc. (largely excluding the arabian peninsula) were once primarily Christian.

How, you might ask, did this land become muslim? War.

The muslims have always been at war with christianity.


The Beginning:

You might ask how are they at war with christians and jews. Well, it goes back to when they started invading neighboring territories and countries surrounding the Arabian Peninsula. They would invade a place, then they would take the resources and basically enslave the population. They claimed, however, that they treated Jews and Christians fairly, since they were so-called Demmis. They gave them secondary citizenship, but that was as bad as slavery, which is why i said they enslaved the people.

SO, how exactly did they treat their "slaves?" Well, first they had this thing called the "child tax." That is basically a tax on children. So for every so many children there would be one taken. What was done with these children? Well, they became Janissaries. They would be taken, then trained to fight and educated, and most importantly taught to hate christians and jews. And so, the muslims would use the Janissaries to conquer more Christian and Jewish lands.

13th century muslims=Hitler?

Muslims in the 13th century made christians wear patches with dogs on them and jews wear patches with the pig. Who is this similar to? Hitler and the star of david patch.



50 Million Victims Of The Orthodox Christian Holocaust

I don't really know anything about the Christian holocaust but you can read about it at: http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm



America depicted as imperialistic, but muslims never described as such.

imperialism-The practice of one country extending its control over the territory, political system, or economic life of another country.

This is the exact way of the muslims. They attempt to extend their control over other places. Yet, they are represented as non-impterialistic in most school texts.

Did you know that muslims get to proof read texts in the US that mention them and can exclude info that they find detrimental to their religion? Perhaps that could be the reason why people dont mention a great deal of this information much. My school texts didnt mention any muslim attrocities, but named many christian ones.



Muslims influencing public colleges.

According to my aunt who has spent like 20 years researching islam, saudi arabia sends millions a year to Public, US colleges in order to get them to give muslims preference over other people. That, is illegal, but hard to prove. It is illegal because they are accepting bribes. Public colleges accepting bribes? These places are run with tax money, it would be different if they were private. I know a great deal of americans wouldnt like their tax money going to a biased cause.


Muslim Doctrine on Infiltration

I'm not quite sure about this. I will talk to my aunt then edit this, but i believe their is a doctrine in islam that says people should go into other countries quitely and eventually force islam upon inhabitants.

How else do you think France is now 1/4 muslim today. The US now has i think 6 millions muslims, 3x what is was 10 years ago.


An example of modern day muslims at war: Sudan's militant Muslim regime is slaughtering Christians who refuse to convert to Islam.


Did you know that muslims arent allowed to convert from islam? In muslim countries you can be killed for converting.

HOW DOES THIS ALL CONSTITUTE A RELIGION OF PEACE?

Don't get me wrong though, im not for a war with islamists. But don't be fooled. They are at war with us.
 

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The Radical Muslims will not stop their attacks on Christianity and Democracy unless they are destroyed. They are even more radical than Adolf Hitler was. Yet, even with this, would Hitler have stopped his conquest of Europe if we had peacefully protested? No. Why are these radicals any different?

As George Patton quotes, "War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!"
 

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Well said... too bad that these spineless liberals would see us dead first. In their world it's easy, Muslim=good Christian=bad. And there's the winner that said "99% of the Muslims he knows are the kindest, sweetest people in the world." Again. Liberal group think takes hole. Muslim=good, Christian=bad. Then libs wonder why they can't win & never will.
 

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Lantzolot said:
Sorry, i did this on a school computer so i had to post twice because i couldnt edit at home.

...

HOW DOES THIS ALL CONSTITUTE A RELIGION OF PEACE?

Don't get me wrong though, im not for a war with islamists. But don't be fooled. They are at war with us.

Do you reckon it would be hard to go thru the annals of history and find evidence of the Christians attacking and massacring muslems? Start with the crusaders' liberation of the holy land.

I don't doubt that there are people in the ME who dream of world conquest and cleansing the world of people with different religious beliefs. You don't have to go very far back in history to find Christian nations do the same thing.

To paint the entire Muslem world as "at war" with us because of the actions of a few and stuff that happened centuries ago is the very definition of rascism.
 

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iriemon said:
To paint the entire Muslem world as "at war" with us because of the actions of a few and stuff that happened centuries ago is the very definition of rascism.

Well, no. It is wrong to paint the entire Muslim world at war with us (at least as of this moment), whether for the actions of a few or a lot. What was not mentioned by Lantzolot was the establishment of the Muslim Caliphate, which was accomplished mainly by sword. You should look it up - you might be surprised at the territory that it covered. And this was before the Crusades, IIRC, though I many not.

How does that relate to today? Read bin Laden's fatwa again. He is advocating nothing more, nothing less than the re-establishment of the Muslim Caliphate.

A incomplete research effort perhaps, but racist? No, definitely not.
 

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Iriemon said:
And because I don't divine you made a mistake and meant the M.E. I'm embarrasing myslef and not keeping up. LOL! OK.

The only mistake made was thinking I was talking with an individual that could follow a converstaion without seeking anything to nit pick and argue about.


Iriemon said:
You are correct, and I agree it doesn't seem to be a model democracy but did appear to have had some degree of represenative elections. But I admit I'm not an expert on Jordon.

Don't stop with Jordan. You seem to lack knowledge everywhere else in the Middle East also.

Iriemon said:
No, we can act in self defense when we are attacked.

Like I said...be thankful wiser men are willing to act now instead of waiting for this civilization to get their hands on a nuclear bomb. Maybe after we're attacked you can claim how your Government didn't do what was necessary before hand.:roll: Useless.


Iriemon said:
And your whole theory is based on that it was. And the WMDs are hiding under a sand pile somewhere. Sure. Good luck convincing the average guy in the ME of that.

My whole "theory" is based on a civilization's threat to us. Not one individual country. Not existing WMD. It is the same theory that smarter men than I have been preaching about since the Reagan era. The same theories that predicted a large attack on American soil like 9/11. The same theories that are calling for an Islamic nation developing nukes and handing them out to any extremists who swears an American or American allied target.


Iriemon said:
I do. I felt we were rushing into Iraq, I wondered why the inspectors had found nothing, but I admit the reconstituted nukes and hundreds of tons of chemical weapons and terrorist support and all the rest of the BS that was being fed us had me worried. Shame on me for believing them. Shame on you for continuing to do so.

What a joke. I believe my own two eyes. I believe my experiences. I believe in my studies. I believe in my interviews and conversations with Jordans, Iraqis, Saudis, Ethiopians, Syrians, and possibly Iranians. (Can't confirm the Iranians). I believe in intel reports and history.

What do you base your belief on? Fantasy? Political correctness? Ignorance? You're still looking for that nuclear bomb or that wharehouse full of Sarin Gas. The threat is the civilization behind these types of weapons and their determination to please their God. As long as you focus on concrete weapons and inevitable attacks......the threat will achieve these weapons. The Iranian Government wants nuclear power and has publicly made his threats to Israel and countries that defend that nation. Hmmm....I wonder who he means. All it would take is to "lose" a bomb and for us to find it in an American city after it has detonated....maybe in your home town. Like I said...be thankful you aren't left to your own securities.



Iriemon said:
Sure. And when are they going to start welcoming us as liberators again?

Sorry, some of us only buy so much BS before we start to question it.

Who cares? We'll be leaving soon and they will have a brighter future. Most agree that their lives are better without Saddam and they have hope for their future.

That's your problem...you buy what is fed to you. Study it for yourself. Don't wait to buy it. Until you do....you are useless to yourself and you are just one more naive American walking around confused and enslaved to political masters looking for votes. None of this is new and sooner or later....any President was going to have to face it instead of pretending that all is well and the issue wasn't as great as it is.
 

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Inuyasha said:
Funny you should mention the "Salafistas". Seven were arrested in Spain today and I think 10 last week. They need to be watched (which it appears they are).

In reference to the "Fatwas", first it is my understanding that according to Muslim law bin-Laden or Al-Zarkawe and the like cannot issue a legal fatwa and so their fatwa in any religious terms, are meaningless. That doesn't mean that the content doesn't regester with some more militant Arabs and even North Africans. However it is more like an edict issued by something like "The Aryan Brotherhood" or "Los Guerilleros de Cristo Rey", The last being a group of Catholic militants but witout section of the Church.

It's not weather one is convinced or not. The evidence is there that there are fundamentalist groups in the Arab world that mean us harm. My belief is that if we keep a low profile these people, in typical Arab fashon, will begin to turn on each other as Lawrence notes in his works, thereby saving us quite a bit of trouble, effort, money and loss of human life. The only thing that worries me is the fundamenlists access to dirty nuclear devices.

Rather than a traditional military action, which is proving to be pretty ineffective against these small cells, a better tactic would be covert operations, assassination and infiltration of the bin-Laden type "false profits". But this means changing the whole concept of the West's approach to the situation. Is that possible? You'd have to ask Rumsfeld and his opposite number among the Western nations. Also important in this type of strategy is to let Iran know that we are not going after them. They must be completely convinced of this, actually not matter what strategy is used. To have Iran as an enemy or even in the equation is not a good idea at all. The whole thing must be directed towards Arabs not Kurds or Turks or Persians.

Surprise. What you are mentioning as a "change" have long been an active course of action. The war on terror is not just Iraq. There are things occurring inside Bosnia that are not exactly publicly known. These "secret prison camps" in Europe are a part of it. How do you think terrorist are rounded up in Spain, Indonesia, Pakistan, Phillipines, America, and other countries so easily before they cause violence?
 

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Billo_Really said:
Have you noticed not all Americans buy into George Bushes fatwa's (or equivalent thereof) either?


These would be the same Americans that have never set foot in the Middle East or studied the region for themselves to understand exactly what is going on.
 

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Iriemon said:
Those are excellent thoughts.

Nothing unifies more effectively that an exterior threat. Case in point: 9/11. The more militant our activities, the more united our opposition will be.

Completely wrong.

9/11 was a perfect example of appeasement. 9/11 showed us that ignoring terror attacks and ignoring intel of a growing problem will not make the problem go away. 9/11 showed us that as long as terror organizations are seen as the "winning" side to the futureless masses inside the Middle East that fresh recruits will always be readily available. 9/11 showed us that as long as we continued to ignore a threat that has been in our faces for so long...that a terror organization can evolve into a super terror organization with global influences. Terror organizations must remain on the losing end as they have been for a couple years and the civilization that breeds them must change.

There will be cases where military action is necessary and a mojarity more where military action is not necessary. Iraq presented us with the latter.

Saudi Arabia? - Big mistake
Iran? - Still had Saddam Hussein sitting in Iraq.
Syria? - Still had Saddam Hussein sitting in Iraq.

Attacking any other country would have involved further inevitable violence.
 
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Iriemon said:
Do you reckon it would be hard to go thru the annals of history and find evidence of the Christians attacking and massacring muslems? Start with the crusaders' liberation of the holy land.

I don't doubt that there are people in the ME who dream of world conquest and cleansing the world of people with different religious beliefs. You don't have to go very far back in history to find Christian nations do the same thing.

To paint the entire Muslem world as "at war" with us because of the actions of a few and stuff that happened centuries ago is the very definition of rascism.


No it's not. It's stereotyping. Racism would be defined if he said that all Muslims are stupid because they are Mulsim.

"Political correctness" is of no use here. Regardles of how many Muslims in the Middle East that could care less about issues, there are far more that see us as the enemy for no reason at all. From this there are millions of extremists. These would be the people that cheer everytime an American civilian gets his head chopped off or an airplane fall to the ground. From this group there are terrorists. Christianity's past is in the past. Islamic's dark age is today. They are struggling for an identity and their extremists have targetted us and fellow "back slidden" Muslims. This is mostly because of their environments and their own society's failures.
 
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GySgt said:
No it's not. It's stereotyping. Racism would be defined if he said that all Muslims are stupid because they are Mulsim.

"Political correctness" is of no use here. Regardles of how many Muslims in the Middle East that could care less about issues, there are far more that see us as the enemy for no reason at all. From this there are millions of extremists. These would be the people that cheer everytime an American civilian gets his head chopped off or an airplane fall to the ground. From this group there are terrorists.

Well, by today's posting I see that you know everything there is to know on the subject and have the ME all figured out while the rest of us "idiots" know nothing at all. Perhaps you can give us a solution to the problem. I am sure the Marine Corps would be happy and you would soon be elevated to a position of a general officer.
 

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Inuyasha said:
Well, by today's posting I see that you know everything there is to know on the subject and have the ME all figured out while the rest of us "idiots" know nothing at all. Perhaps you can give us a solution to the problem. I am sure the Marine Corps would be happy and you would soon be elevated to a position of a general officer.

Sarcasm. How bland.

It's actually quite simple and is hardly a little known concept to issues. The diseased culture of our enemy suffers from deep flaws which condemns them to failure in the modern world…

1) Restrictions on the free flow of information.
2) The subjugation of women.
3) Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure.
4) The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization.
5) Domination by a restrictive religion.
6) A low valuation of education.
7) Low prestige assigned to work.

But the number one deadly and galvanizing strategic impulse in the world today is jealousy. And it's jealousy of the West in general, but specifically of the United States. Jealousy is a natural, deep human emotion, which afflicts us all in our personal lives--to some degree. But when it afflicts an entire civilization, it's tragic. The failed civilization of the Middle East--where not one of the treasured local values is functional in the globalized world--is morbidly jealous of us. They've succumbed to a culture of--and addiction to--blame. Instead of facing up to the need to change and rolling up their sleeves, they want the world to conform to their terms.

The solution has already been layed in countless books written by smarter men than any of us. The solution will take generations and it calls for a change in this civilization. It calls for education. It calls for a more adherent to the Islam that is practiced by the wide majority of Muslims around the globe and outside the Middle East. It calls for the erecting of world class universities, libraries, and industry in the Middle East. It calls for exportation and trade.

How do they achieve all of this? They must do it for themselves. We cannot force them to change, but as long as they do not....you are at risk. We cannot force them to change their religion, but history has taught us that religions change because men change them. Fundamentalists insist upon an historical stasis, but evolution in the architecture of faith has always been essential to, and reflective of, human progress. It is hard to imagine that a people want to be ruled by a dominating religion, but in the Middle East, this is all they know. If exposed to more freedoms without the fear of earthly punishment for what controlling men tell them is "devine" wishes...people decide their religion. We can provide them with democracies. We can provide them with removals of dictators. We can provide them with indirect support of government overthrows. We can provide them the bike, but it is up to them to take the training wheels off.

Of course, as all of this slowly grinds forward, we must stay actively engaged with searching for and killing terrorists wherever we find them. This is happening in more ways than one. When you hear about "secret" camps in Europe, you are not realizing what is actually occurring. You are not realizing the events in Bosnia. You are not realizing the events inside Indonesia and Pakistan. This is all connected and it all has very much to do with this civilization and this "war on terror."
 
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Inuyasha said:
Well, by today's posting I see that you know everything there is to know on the subject and have the ME all figured out while the rest of us "idiots" know nothing at all.

Your sarcasm suggests that you consider yourself well-informed. You may indeed be well informed. Your posts certainly suggest that to be the case. But so far, I find no contributor here as well-informed on this particular topic as GySgt. He has clearly done more than just his homework on this topic, he has gone the extra mile to educate himself extensively.

There will be those who will disagree with his conclusions, and that is certainly ok - its a big part of what makes DP a fun place. But do so with an awareness that Gunny's reading list on this topic is most likely a helluva lot longer (and given what he does for a living, most likely much better informed) than yours.

Inuyasha, IMO, your sarcasm is misplaced. There are much more worthy targets for such. Just my impression - YMMV.
 

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oldreliable67 said:
Your sarcasm suggests that you consider yourself well-informed. You may indeed be well informed. Your posts certainly suggest that to be the case. But so far, I find no contributor here as well-informed on this particular topic as GySgt. He has clearly done more than just his homework on this topic, he has gone the extra mile to educate himself extensively.

There will be those who will disagree with his conclusions, and that is certainly ok - its a big part of what makes DP a fun place. But do so with an awareness that Gunny's reading list on this topic is most likely a helluva lot longer (and given what he does for a living, most likely much better informed) than yours.

Inuyasha, IMO, your sarcasm is misplaced. There are much more worthy targets for such. Just my impression - YMMV.

Thanks for the back up.
 

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oldreliable67 said:
Your sarcasm suggests that you consider yourself well-informed. You may indeed be well informed. Your posts certainly suggest that to be the case. But so far, I find no contributor here as well-informed on this particular topic as GySgt. He has clearly done more than just his homework on this topic, he has gone the extra mile to educate himself extensively.

There will be those who will disagree with his conclusions, and that is certainly ok - its a big part of what makes DP a fun place. But do so with an awareness that Gunny's reading list on this topic is most likely a helluva lot longer (and given what he does for a living, most likely much better informed) than yours.

Inuyasha, IMO, your sarcasm is misplaced. There are much more worthy targets for such. Just my impression - YMMV.

I am sure he is well informed and I do not disagree with that, I take issue when one uses his knowledge o position to aggrandize and belittle others. I have noticed this tendency in the past month in his so i am bringing it up. Perhaps my sarcasm is somewhat misplaced. Time will tell.
 

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Inuyasha said:
I am sure he is well informed and I do not disagree with that, I take issue when one uses his knowledge o position to aggrandize and belittle others. I have noticed this tendency in the past month in his so i am bringing it up. Perhaps my sarcasm is somewhat misplaced. Time will tell.


This is where the confusion is. I do not have problems with opinions. Where the frustrations lie is when people have opinions based on complete ignorance. If an individual is going to express his or her opinion on abortion...they should at least know what it is. Likewise for the Middle East. Refusing to see what is there and what is obvious is not an opinion. It is designed blindness. Designed blindness is what has allowed our government to look the other way as the Arab elite used us and persecuted this civilization into the desperate state that it is in today - as long as the oil flowed. However, our obsession with the Middle East is not just about oil. It’s about intellectual habit. We assign unparalleled strategic importance to the survival of the repugnant Saudi regime because that’s the way we’ve been doing things for half a century, despite the complete absence of political, cultural, or elementary human progress on the Arabian Peninsula. We have wasted decades insisting that we are friends with governments that need us as an enemy to explain away the ruin of their societies that they have provided for themselves. However, this is where our guilt ends. We are an imagined enemy.
 
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teacher

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GySgt said:
This is where the confusion is. I do not have problems with opinions. Where the frustrations lie is when people have opinions based on complete ignorance. If an individual is going to express his or her opinion on abortion...they should at least know what it is. Likewise for the Middle East. Refusing to see what is there and what is obvious is not an opinion. It is designed blindness. Designed blindness is what has allowed our government to look the other way as the Arab elite used us and persecuted this civilization into the desperate state that it is in today - as long as the oil flowed. We have wasted decades insisting that we are friends with governments that need us as an enemy to explain away the ruin of their societies that they have provided for themselves. However, this is where our guilt ends. We are an imagined enemy.

The ruling rich Arabs use us a scapegoats through religion to deflect the blame of the oppressed poor away from where the blame truly lies. And they been doing it long time while we allow it.

I said it in less words. I win.
 

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teacher said:
The ruling rich Arabs use us a scapegoats through religion to deflect the blame of the oppressed poor away from where the blame truly lies. And they been doing it long time while we allow it.

I said it in less words. I win.


Well, you know me. I write commentaries.

Being aware of decades of hate speech from mosques in many countries around the world and numerous terrorist attacks, when we noticed anything at all, we dismissed it as no more than an annoyance, our attitude drifting between the “Politically Correct” notion that everyone is entitled to his or her own form of religion (no matter if it preaches hatred and praises mass murder). For decades we have downplayed—or simply ignored—the hate-filled speech directed toward us, the monstrous lessons taught by extremists to children, and the duplicity of so many states we insisted were our friends. But nations do not have friends—at best, they have allies with a confluence of interests. Our interests in the Middle East is oil. We imagine a will to support our endeavors where there is only a pursuit of advantage. Such is government, but we deal with cynical, corrupt old men who know which words to say to soothe our diplomats, while the future lies with the discontented young, to whom the poison of blame is always delicious. The futureless masses yearn to excuse their profound individual inadequacies and to explain away the prison walls their beliefs have made of their lives.
 

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Iriemon said:
Do you reckon it would be hard to go thru the annals of history and find evidence of the Christians attacking and massacring muslems? Start with the crusaders' liberation of the holy land.

I don't doubt that there are people in the ME who dream of world conquest and cleansing the world of people with different religious beliefs. You don't have to go very far back in history to find Christian nations do the same thing.

To paint the entire Muslem world as "at war" with us because of the actions of a few and stuff that happened centuries ago is the very definition of rascism.

The crusades came about as a counter-attack on islam who attacked the "holy lands."
 

Lantzolot

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oldreliable67 said:
Well, no. It is wrong to paint the entire Muslim world at war with us (at least as of this moment), whether for the actions of a few or a lot. What was not mentioned by Lantzolot was the establishment of the Muslim Caliphate, which was accomplished mainly by sword. You should look it up - you might be surprised at the territory that it covered. And this was before the Crusades, IIRC, though I many not.

How does that relate to today? Read bin Laden's fatwa again. He is advocating nothing more, nothing less than the re-establishment of the Muslim Caliphate.

A incomplete research effort perhaps, but racist? No, definitely not.

How can you ignore the fact that muslims are allowed to kill people who convert from islam and are allowed to lie to people in order to convert them. War by definition of the government, perhaps not. But this isnt about government.
 

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tr1414 said:
While most Muslims may not be terrorist, most support terrorist. Don't forget the dancing in the streets after 9/11 & anytime Americans die, Muslims get very happy & hand out sweets, but you won't see that in the liberal media.

It is the Muslims who have placed themselves in the "all Muslims are terrorists" camp. They are the only ones who can clean their own house, nor Bush, not the US military, surely not the useless UN...Of course, our military is trying with a mighty effort, and with support, may well prevail...

Are they doing this ?
Have any improvements been made in their education ?
Has even one man denounced the Koran ???

A similar situation existed in our nation during prohibition with the Italians.
Many thought all Italians were criminals.
And what did the Italians do about this ??
 
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