• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The US is becoming a police state. If I was young I'd seriously think about leaving

Jack2aTee

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
742
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yesterday's decision to overturn Roe and roll back woman's rights to the 1960's has only reinforced my belief that the US is on the fast track to becoming a total police state like the Soviet Union was in the same era. And I think Thomas has made it clear that the ultra-conservative wing of the SC doesn't intend to stop with abortion. It intends to go on and reverse contraception, certain forms of sexual relations between consenting adults, gay marriage and God knows what else. Count of the Republicans gaining control of the Presidency and Congress in 2024 and then they will get to work outlawing abortion nationally, dismantling Obamacare and Medicare and replacing them with nothing, shredding the safety net for the poor and passing more tax cuts for the wealthy. And that's just for starts.

I am an old man so it's too late for me, but if I were just starting my life I'd seriously think about getting out of the US and starting life in a more progressive freer country where the loony Christian conservatives haven't taken over. I think that as conditions continue to deteriorate in the US life here will become unbearable, no different from what Russia and some of the 3rd world countries are going through now. It won't be a pretty sight.
 

Bear5131

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2022
Messages
5,324
Reaction score
1,706
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The Soviet Union banned guns and abortion was legal in 1920 in the Soviet Union, so it's anyone's guess what the OP is talking about
 

Jack2aTee

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
742
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I hope you are both right but I have my doubts. My gut feeling is that the US will continue to become more and more repressive. Case in point: people in severe pain used to be able to go to their PCP and get a prescription for an opiate to manage their pain responsibly. Now, no PCP will touch an opiate for fear of being targeted by the DEA. They will immediately refer you to a pain clinic, that will in turn tell you they want you to try all the diagnostic and surgical procedures first and then when those have failed they will then and only then talk to you about the possibility of pain meds. In most cases they won't prescribe pain meds even then, preferring to prescribe some stronger NSAID's instead. Even hospitals now are just giving their post-op patients Ibuprofen, no narcotics.
 

Jack2aTee

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
742
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The Soviet Union banned guns and abortion was legal in 1920 in the Soviet Union, so it's anyone's guess what the OP is talking about
You're saying the Soviet Union wasn't repressive? Life there was a good as it was in the US?
 

Bear5131

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2022
Messages
5,324
Reaction score
1,706
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
You're saying the Soviet Union wasn't repressive? Life there was a good as it was in the US?

No I am saying, I don't have a clue what your talking about, the Soviet Union banned guns, made abortion legal way before the USA, so how could you compare the Soviet Union to America in 2022?
 

Jack2aTee

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
1,302
Reaction score
742
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No I am saying, I don't have a clue what your talking about, the Soviet Union banned guns, made abortion legal way before the USA, so how could you compare the Soviet Union to America in 2022?
You think guns and abortion are all that define whether a country is free or repressive? I may have mentioned abortion but I also mentioned restricting healthcare for the poor and tax cuts for the wealthy.
 

TheParser

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
11,207
Reaction score
5,247
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I am an old man so it's too late for me, but if I were just starting my life I'd seriously think about getting out of the US and starting life in a more progressive freer country where the loony Christian conservatives haven't taken over.
I am 85, so I know where you are coming from (as they used to say back in the day).

For you, it's "Christian conservatives."

For me, it's the horrific violent crime committed by individuals that lack any decency or even a conscience.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
83,959
Reaction score
35,960
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yesterday's decision to overturn Roe and roll back woman's rights to the 1960's has only reinforced my belief that the US is on the fast track to becoming a total police state like the Soviet Union was in the same era. And I think Thomas has made it clear that the ultra-conservative wing of the SC doesn't intend to stop with abortion. It intends to go on and reverse contraception, certain forms of sexual relations between consenting adults, gay marriage and God knows what else. Count of the Republicans gaining control of the Presidency and Congress in 2024 and then they will get to work outlawing abortion nationally, dismantling Obamacare and Medicare and replacing them with nothing, shredding the safety net for the poor and passing more tax cuts for the wealthy. And that's just for starts.

I am an old man so it's too late for me, but if I were just starting my life I'd seriously think about getting out of the US and starting life in a more progressive freer country where the loony Christian conservatives haven't taken over. I think that as conditions continue to deteriorate in the US life here will become unbearable, no different from what Russia and some of the 3rd world countries are going through now. It won't be a pretty sight.
What does the police have to do with abortion?
 

FreedomFromAll

Political Parties = Corruption
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
18,411
Reaction score
5,535
Location
New Mexico USA
Gender
Male
Yesterday's decision to overturn Roe and roll back woman's rights to the 1960's has only reinforced my belief that the US is on the fast track to becoming a total police state like the Soviet Union was in the same era. And I think Thomas has made it clear that the ultra-conservative wing of the SC doesn't intend to stop with abortion. It intends to go on and reverse contraception, certain forms of sexual relations between consenting adults, gay marriage and God knows what else. Count of the Republicans gaining control of the Presidency and Congress in 2024 and then they will get to work outlawing abortion nationally, dismantling Obamacare and Medicare and replacing them with nothing, shredding the safety net for the poor and passing more tax cuts for the wealthy. And that's just for starts.

I am an old man so it's too late for me, but if I were just starting my life I'd seriously think about getting out of the US and starting life in a more progressive freer country where the loony Christian conservatives haven't taken over. I think that as conditions continue to deteriorate in the US life here will become unbearable, no different from what Russia and some of the 3rd world countries are going through now. It won't be a pretty sight.
Leaving is selfish and hyperbolic crap.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
81,080
Reaction score
35,654
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
man...SUCH histrionics over a court decision that merely said abortion isnt a Constitutionally protected right and that states have the authority to govern themselves...you know...like the Constitution originally intended.

ALL that has happened is that the court has corrected bad decisions in the past and the representatives in Congress failed to act to actually secure the 'rights' people are no so desperately complaining about. The courts did not ban abortion. The courts arent goign to act to ban gay marriage. The courts arent going to act to ban contraception. Athe very worst, the court MAY turn the decision of gay marriage back to the states and turn the responsibility for contraception back to the individual. Where abortifacients are involved, individuals in some states may have to choose from 24 other types of effective contraception. Oh the horror!
 

Bear5131

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2022
Messages
5,324
Reaction score
1,706
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
You think guns and abortion are all that define whether a country is free or repressive? I may have mentioned abortion but I also mentioned restricting healthcare for the poor and tax cuts for the wealthy.
Who restricts health care? It's been a federal law for over 40 years no hospital can turn anyone away, Go to Japan, get hurt and the ambulance will just drive you around till your dead
 

Michael Cole

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
18,199
Reaction score
9,719
Location
Northern Nevada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If the Supreme court starts using the Bible for the foundation of law, maybe the next decision will be ." - Psalm 137:9)
"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock."
If they used the Bible for law, Roe would never have been overturned. Don't trust me; ask a Jew. Better yet, read the Bible. God didn't even count children until they reached the age of 30 days.
 

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
11,091
Reaction score
5,415
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I hope you are both right but I have my doubts. My gut feeling is that the US will continue to become more and more repressive. Case in point: people in severe pain used to be able to go to their PCP and get a prescription for an opiate to manage their pain responsibly. Now, no PCP will touch an opiate for fear of being targeted by the DEA. They will immediately refer you to a pain clinic, that will in turn tell you they want you to try all the diagnostic and surgical procedures first and then when those have failed they will then and only then talk to you about the possibility of pain meds. In most cases they won't prescribe pain meds even then, preferring to prescribe some stronger NSAID's instead. Even hospitals now are just giving their post-op patients Ibuprofen, no narcotics.

Indeed, this is one of the cruelest consequences of the progressive regulatory state.
 

HIP56948

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
4,687
Reaction score
5,058
Location
Sarasota, Florida and Sydney, Australia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
If they used the Bible for law, Roe would never have been overturned. Don't trust me; ask a Jew. Better yet, read the Bible. God didn't even count children until they reached the age of 30 days.
Ah..didn't know that. I've got one close friend, who happens to be Jewish but he and his wife are very laid back on just about everything. Actually the
wife loves to tell Jewish jokes. Won't tell one here..people will get pissy.. :) On Edit..They're not mean jokes, just funny.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

Meat with eyes!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
56,541
Reaction score
38,148
Location
Los Angeles
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Yesterday's decision to overturn Roe and roll back woman's rights to the 1960's has only reinforced my belief that the US is on the fast track to becoming a total police state like the Soviet Union was in the same era.

In the Soviet era the organs of state security apparatus were so clumsy and incompetent by the time any of US were alive and at the age of reason that they were actually more free than they are NOW in the Russian Federation.
I know this from personal experience working for Russian language television.
Now that Russia is fascist, it's way more of a police state now.
Not saying the USSR was, in fact, a free state, I'm saying that Soviet people had worn down the apparatchik to the point of being a bumbling bribe driven shell of its former Stalinist self by the late 1970's, and in point of fact, the further away you were from Moscow, the easier it was to work around and use loopholes.

That is, in fact, a large part of why when our "cultural exchange" programs arrived at the point where artists like Billy Joel wound up on the marquee, there was already a very large built in audience who already knew a lot of his songs. That's why domestic artists like Vladimir Vysotsky, the "Russian Bob Dylan" went from severe repression to national folk hero beloved (grudgingly) even by the state itself.
 

Michael Cole

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
18,199
Reaction score
9,719
Location
Northern Nevada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Ah..didn't know that. I've got one close friend, who happens to be Jewish but he and his wife are very laid back on just about everything. Actually the
wife loves to tell Jewish jokes. Won't tell one here..people will get pissy.. :)
The "mainstream" Jewish belief is that abortion is permissible for the life of the mother and in the case of rape and incest. In other words, a view held by about 90% of Americans.

The Bible is filled with infanticide, miscarriage inducing spells and potions, God stipulating a fetus' worth being property but the woman's worth being life and limb, the practice of infant males not being counted until the age of 30 days, much more that I've forgotten.

This was the Bronze Age, and it was written by Hebrews, about Hebrews. God didn't have a hand in it.

The 30 days thingy is obvious; in the Bronze Age, infant mortality was so high, counting them before the 30 day mark was counterproductive.

Exodus 21:22-25.

And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no [further] injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any [further] injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

The spells and potions are Bronze Age relics, as well.
 

RIP U.S. Democracy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
3,220
Reaction score
2,177
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Odd. I've been thinking things have been looking up recently and have great hopes for this November.

Well...since you're a member of the GOP Taliban I can understand your optimism.
 

BlueTex

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
33,732
Reaction score
24,030
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
The Soviet Union banned guns and abortion was legal in 1920 in the Soviet Union, so it's anyone's guess what the OP is talking about

Abortion is legal in Russia today...It was banned from 1936 to 1955... Sure you want to use them as an example?
 

BlueTex

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
33,732
Reaction score
24,030
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
The "mainstream" Jewish belief is that abortion is permissible for the life of the mother and in the case of rape and incest. In other words, a view held by about 90% of Americans.

The Bible is filled with infanticide, miscarriage inducing spells and potions, God stipulating a fetus' worth being property but the woman's worth being life and limb, the practice of infant males not being counted until the age of 30 days, much more that I've forgotten.

This was the Bronze Age, and it was written by Hebrews, about Hebrews. God didn't have a hand in it.

The 30 days thingy is obvious; in the Bronze Age, infant mortality was so high, counting them before the 30 day mark was counterproductive.

Exodus 21:22-25.

And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no [further] injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any [further] injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

The spells and potions are Bronze Age relics, as well.

It's an interesting angle...

 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
60,394
Reaction score
23,267
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Odd. I've been thinking things have been looking up recently and have great hopes for this November.
You are not alone either. Many Americans long for a powerful govt. that will control our every move with any means necessary. It is how the weak and feeble minded believe they will inherit the earth. They are dead wrong though.
 
Top Bottom