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Billo_Really said:Now are you going to answer the question, or play more word games?
And which one might that be?
Billo_Really said:Now are you going to answer the question, or play more word games?
so after this statement......
you feel you have adequately proven it by showing me
weak. very very weak.
1957
Eisenhower establishes Office of Public Safety to train Latin American police forces.
! 1959
Fidel Castro takes power in Cuba. Several months earlier he had undertaken a triumphal tour through the U.S., which included a CIA briefing on the Red menace.
"Castro's continued tawdry little melodrama of invasion." --Time, of Castro's warnings of an imminent U.S. invasion
1960
Eisenhower authorizes covert actions to get rid of Castro. Among other things, the CIA tries assassinating him with exploding cigars and poisoned milkshakes. Other covert actions against Cuba include burning sugar fields, blowing up boats in Cuban harbors, and sabotaging industrial equipment.
1960
The Canal Zone becomes the focus of U.S. counterinsurgency training.
1960
A new junta in El Salvador promises free elections; Eisenhower, fearing leftist tendencies, withholds recognition. A more attractive right-wing counter-coup comes along in three months.
"Governments of the civil-military type of El Salvador are the most effective in containing communist penetration in Latin America." --John F. Kennedy, after the coup
1960
Guatemalan officers attempt to overthrow the regime of Presidente Fuentes; Eisenhower stations warships and 2000 Marines offshore while Fuentes puts down the revolt. [Another source says that the U.S. provided air support for Fuentes.]
1960s
U.S. Green Berets train Guatemalan army in counterinsurgency techniques. Guatemalan efforts against its insurgents include aerial bombing, scorched-earth assaults on towns suspected of aiding the rebels, and death squads, which killed 20,000 people between 1966 and 1976. U.S. Army Col. John Webber claims that it was at his instigation that "the technique of counter-terror had been implemented by the army."
"If it is necessary to turn the country into a cemetary in order to pacify it, I will not hesitate to do so." --President Carlos Arana Osorio
1961
U.S. organizes force of 1400 anti-Castro Cubans, ships it to the Bahía de los Cochinos. Castro's army routs it.
1961
CIA-backed coup overthrows elected Pres. J. M. Velasco Ibarra of Ecuador, who has been too friendly with Cuba.
1962
CIA engages in campaign in Brazil to keep João Goulart from achieving control of Congress.
1963
CIA-backed coup overthrows elected social democrat Juan Bosch in the Dominican Republic.
1963
A far-right-wing coup in Guatemala, apparently U.S.-supported, forestalls elections in which "extreme leftist" Juan José Arévalo was favored to win.
"It is difficult to develop stable and democratic government [in Guatemala], because so many of the nation's Indians are illiterate and superstitious." --School textbook, 1964
1964
João Goulart of Brazil proposes agrarian reform, nationalization of oil. Ousted by U.S.-supported military coup.
! 1964
The free market in Nicaragua:
The Somoza family controls "about one-tenth of the cultivable land in Nicaragua, and just about everything else worth owning, the country's only airline, one television station, a newspaper, a cement plant, textile mill, several sugar refineries, half-a-dozen breweries and distilleries, and a Mercedes-Benz agency." --Life World Library
1965
A coup in the Dominican Republic attempts to restore Bosch's government. The U.S. invades and occupies the country to stop this "Communist rebellion," with the help of the dictators of Brazil, Paraguay, Honduras, and Nicaragua.
"Representative democracy cannot work in a country such as the Dominican Republic," Bosch declares later. Now why would he say that?
1966
U.S. sends arms, advisors, and Green Berets to Guatemala to implement a counterinsurgency campaign.
"To eliminate a few hundred guerrillas, the government killed perhaps 10,000 Guatemalan peasants." --State Dept. report on the program
1967
A team of Green Berets is sent to Bolivia to help find and assassinate Che Guevara.
1968
Gen. José Alberto Medrano, who is on the payroll of the CIA, organizes the ORDEN paramilitary force, considered the precursor of El Salvador's death squads.
! 1970
In this year (just as an example), U.S. investments in Latin America earn $1.3 billion; while new investments total $302 million.
1970
Salvador Allende Gossens elected in Chile. Suspends foreign loans, nationalizes foreign companies. For the phone system, pays ITT the company's minimized valuation for tax purposes. The CIA provides covert financial support for Allende's opponents, both during and after his election.
1972
U.S. stands by as military suspends an election in El Salvador in which centrist José Napoleón Duarte was favored to win. (Compare with the emphasis placed on the 1982 elections.)
1973
U.S.-supported military coup kills Allende and brings Augusto Pinochet Ugarte to power. Pinochet imprisons well over a hundred thousand Chileans (torture and rape are the usual methods of interrogation), terminates civil liberties, abolishes unions, extends the work week to 48 hours, and reverses Allende's land reforms.
1973
Military takes power in Uruguay, supported by U.S. The subsequent repression reportedly features the world's highest percentage of the population imprisoned for political reasons.
1974
Office of Public Safety is abolished when it is revealed that police are being taught torture techniques.
! 1976
Election of Jimmy Carter leads to a new emphasis on human rights in Central America. Carter cuts off aid to the Guatemalan military (or tries to; some slips through) and reduces aid to El Salvador.
! 1979
Ratification of the Panama Canal treaty which is to return the Canal to Panama by 1999.
"Once again, Uncle Sam put his tail between his legs and crept away rather than face trouble." --Ronald Reagan
1980
A right-wing junta takes over in El Salvador. U.S. begins massively supporting El Salvador, assisting the military in its fight against FMLN guerrillas. Death squads proliferate; Archbishop Romero is assassinated by right-wing terrorists; 35,000 civilians are killed in 1978-81. The rape and murder of four U.S. churchwomen results in the suspension of U.S. military aid for one month.
The U.S. demands that the junta undertake land reform. Within 3 years, however, the reform program is halted by the oligarchy.
"The Soviet Union underlies all the unrest that is going on." --Ronald Reagan
1980
U.S., seeking a stable base for its actions in El Salvador and Nicaragua, tells the Honduran military to clean up its act and hold elections. The U.S. starts pouring in $100 million of aid a year and basing the contras on Honduran territory.
Death squads are also active in Honduras, and the contras tend to act as a state within a state.
1981
The CIA steps in to organize the contras in Nicaragua, who started the previous year as a group of 60 ex-National Guardsmen; by 1985 there are about 12,000 of them. 46 of the 48 top military leaders are ex-Guardsmen. The U.S. also sets up an economic embargo of Nicaragua and pressures the IMF and the World Bank to limit or halt loans to Nicaragua.
1981
Gen. Torrijos of Panama is killed in a plane crash. There is a suspicion of CIA involvement, due to Torrijos' nationalism and friendly relations with Cuba.
1982
A coup brings Gen. Efraín Ríos Montt to power in Guatemala, and gives the Reagan administration the opportunity to increase military aid. Ríos Montt's evangelical beliefs do not prevent him from accelerating the counterinsurgency campaign.
1983
Another coup in Guatemala replaces Ríos Montt. The new President, Oscar Mejía Víctores, was trained by the U.S. and seems to have cleared his coup beforehand with U.S. authorities.
1983
U.S. troops take over tiny Granada. Rather oddly, it intervenes shortly after a coup has overthrown the previous, socialist leader. One of the justifications for the action is the building of a new airport with Cuban help, which Granada claimed was for tourism and Reagan argued was for Soviet use. Later the U.S. announces plans to finish the airport... to develop tourism.
1983
Boland Amendment prohibits CIA and Defense Dept. from spending money to overthrow the government of Nicaragua-- a law the Reagan administration cheerfully violates.
1984
CIA mines three Nicaraguan harbors. Nicaragua takes this action to the World Court, which brings an $18 billion judgment against the U.S. The U.S. refuses to recognize the Court's jurisdiction in the case.
1984
U.S. spends $10 million to orchestrate elections in El Salvador-- something of a farce, since left-wing parties are under heavy repression, and the military has already declared that it will not answer to the elected president.
1989
U.S. invades Panama to dislodge CIA boy gone wrong Manuel Noriega, an event which marks the evolution of the U.S.'s favorite excuse from Communism to drugs.
1996
The U.S. battles global Communism by extending most-favored-nation trading status for China, and tightening the trade embargo on Castro's Cuba.
no more proveable than me saying Iran will attack the U.S. in the next week.
nothing more than an ASSUMPTION. an ASSUMPTION that goes AGAINST America.
go figure.
600...........back to you.Originally posted by Cherokee;
I asked "How many US members have been charged?"
So your not done playing word games. OK, it's a free country...........at the moment.Originally posted by Cherokee:
And which one might that be?
:roflBillo_Really said:600...........back to you.
Originally Posted by Billo_Really
With 600 cases of abuse by US soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan being investigated,
Well they were charged with something by somebody, or the Pentagon would not be investigating them.Originally posted by Cherokee:
Try again...
Investigated does not mean charged....
Davo said:So says the man who provides no....counter arguments? and critisizes the ones I do provide.
Ok you want more?
The list goes from 1906 to 1996....notice how much I cut out.
How does me saying "Iran will attack the U.S." go against the U.S.? It's anti-american to say another country will attack you? Woah...talk about a policed state. Litsen....I'm getting really annoyed by this constant back and forth "you assumed no you assumed" thing...so litsen...either provide proof that all of the facts that I stated did not happen(GL with that cause they did) or please refrain from making bottom of the pit comments.
You have also administered the murder of more people in the world then anybody else. You have backed more terrorist organisations for your own personal gains then anybody else. You've broken more international laws then anybody else. You've invaded more countries then anybody else. Should I keep going? It's funny....when I say "The U.S. does not torture" you feel it's a collective accusation that is wrong. Then when you say "The U.S. has "freed" more people" all the sudden it's a collective achievement.
Billo_Really said:Well they were charged with something by somebody, or the Pentagon would not be investigating them.
vandree said:Ten U.S. Army soldiers have been court-martialed and convicted of crimes committed at Abu Ghraib prison:
Cpl. Charles A. Graner Jr., 372nd M.P. Co.
Convicted by a general court-martial in January 2005 on five counts of assault, maltreatment and conspiracy.
Graner received a 10-year prison sentence and a dishonorable discharge from the Army, and was reduced in rank to private.
Pfc. Lynndie England, 372nd M.P. Co.
Convicted by a general court-martial in September 2005 on one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act.
England was sentenced to three years in prison and received a dishonorable discharge.
Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick II, 372nd M.P. Co.
Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in October 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act.
Frederick was sentenced to eight years in prison and the forfeiture of pay. He also received a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.
Spc. Jeremy Sivits, 372nd M.P. Co.
Pleaded guilty before a special court-martial in May 2004 to four counts of taking photographs of detainee abuse in November 2003.
Sivits was sentenced to one year in military prison, was educed in rank and received a bad-conduct discharge from the military.
Spc. Sabrina Harman, 372nd M.P. Co.
Convicted by a general court-martial in May 2005 of conspiracy, maltreating detainees and dereliction of duty.
She was sentenced to six months in prison and received a bad-conduct discharge.
Sgt. Javal S. Davis, 372nd M.P. Co.
Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in February 2005 to assault, dereliction of duty and lying to investigators
Davis was reduced in rank, was sentenced to six months in prison and received a bad-conduct discharge.
Spc. Megan Ambuhl, 372nd M.P. Co.
Pleaded guilty before a summary court-martial in September 2004 to failing to prevent or report maltreatment of prisoners.
Ambuhl received a reduction in rank to private and the loss of half a month's pay.
Spc. Armin J. Cruz Jr., 325th M.I. Battalion
Pleaded guilty before a special court-martial in September 2004 to conspiracy and mistreating prisoners.
Cruz was sentenced to eight months in prison, was reduced in rank to private and received a bad-conduct discharge.
Spc. Roman Krol, 325th M.I. Battalion
Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in February 2005 to two counts of abusing detainees and one charge of conspiracy abuse.
Kroll was sentenced to 10 months in prison, received a bad-conduct discharge and was reduced in rank to private.
Sgt. Michael J. Smith
An Army dog handler received six months behind bars for using his snarling dog to torment Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
In an e-mail to Salon, Army spokesman Paul Boyce said that as of March 3, 85 soldiers have been court-martialed for abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan. To date, there have been no courts-martial for abuses committed at the U.S. prison in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/prosecutions_convictions/index.html
What was my point?Originally posted by Cherokee:
Sorry bill but you Investigate allegations
if you find evidence to support the allegations you charge them.….
So tell me, how many heads does a new plasma screen cost these days? You know, native Americans didn't start chopping scalps off until it we kept invading their lands and destroying their way of life.Originally posted by Cherokee
Yep, and unlike others groups who like to cut heads off for TV we prosecute our own who abuse.
Billo_Really said:What was my point?
Billo_Really]So tell me, how many heads does a new plasma screen cost these days?
You know, native Americans didn't start chopping scalps off until it we kept invading their lands and destroying their way of life.
We can talk about whatever you like. I think what this country did to Native Americans is the biggest black mark in this country's history. What Hussein did to the Kurds does not even compare to the genocide we caused during our industrial revolution.Originally posted by Cherokee
So I guess now we are going to talk about my people?
No. But thank you anyway for making an honest effort to answer the question instead of coming back with some snide remark. My point was to offer evidence that these are not isolated occurances. That the volume of alleged abuses [to put it your way] indicates that the problem is more systematic than it is the isolated actions of some local rogue warriors.Originally posted by Cherokee
How many of the 600 have been charged?
What are the charges?
How many of the 600 have been convicted?
Billo_Really said:No. But thank you anyway for making an honest effort to answer the question instead of coming back with some snide remark. My point was to offer evidence that these are not isolated occurances. That the volume of alleged abuses [to put it your way] indicates that the problem is more systematic than it is the isolated actions of some local rogue warriors.
volume of alleged abuses?
Billo_Really said:We can talk about whatever you like. I think what this country did to Native Americans is the biggest black mark in this country's history. What Hussein did to the Kurds does not even compare to the genocide we caused during our industrial revolution.
cherokee said:I dont know 16? maybe 17?
Whats the going price for heads today? I didnt see any on ebay.....:roll:
Stop trying to change the subject!Originally Posted by cherokee
Thats proves NOTHING!
You cant convict anyone on allegations alone.
Its this little thing called “proof”
I bet this is the closest we will ever come to an agreement.Originally Posted by cherokee
Can we stick to one f**king thing?...
ProudAmerican said:plasmas are highly over rated.
I suggest an LCD HD projector and a 110 inch screen.
cherokee said:I have heard that also. They dont last very long 5 years?
cnredd said:If you were shot by a German, do you blame all Germans?....