The United States Of America...Does Not Torture.

[cherokee]

Now are you going to answer the question, or play more word games?

And which one might that be?

 

[Davo]

so after this statement......

you feel you have adequately proven it by showing me

weak. very very weak.

So says the man who provides no....counter arguments? and critisizes the ones I do provide.

Ok you want more?

1957
Eisenhower establishes Office of Public Safety to train Latin American police forces.
! 1959
Fidel Castro takes power in Cuba. Several months earlier he had undertaken a triumphal tour through the U.S., which included a CIA briefing on the Red menace.
"Castro's continued tawdry little melodrama of invasion." --Time, of Castro's warnings of an imminent U.S. invasion
1960
Eisenhower authorizes covert actions to get rid of Castro. Among other things, the CIA tries assassinating him with exploding cigars and poisoned milkshakes. Other covert actions against Cuba include burning sugar fields, blowing up boats in Cuban harbors, and sabotaging industrial equipment.
1960
The Canal Zone becomes the focus of U.S. counterinsurgency training.
1960
A new junta in El Salvador promises free elections; Eisenhower, fearing leftist tendencies, withholds recognition. A more attractive right-wing counter-coup comes along in three months.
"Governments of the civil-military type of El Salvador are the most effective in containing communist penetration in Latin America." --John F. Kennedy, after the coup
1960
Guatemalan officers attempt to overthrow the regime of Presidente Fuentes; Eisenhower stations warships and 2000 Marines offshore while Fuentes puts down the revolt. [Another source says that the U.S. provided air support for Fuentes.]
1960s
U.S. Green Berets train Guatemalan army in counterinsurgency techniques. Guatemalan efforts against its insurgents include aerial bombing, scorched-earth assaults on towns suspected of aiding the rebels, and death squads, which killed 20,000 people between 1966 and 1976. U.S. Army Col. John Webber claims that it was at his instigation that "the technique of counter-terror had been implemented by the army."
"If it is necessary to turn the country into a cemetary in order to pacify it, I will not hesitate to do so." --President Carlos Arana Osorio
1961
U.S. organizes force of 1400 anti-Castro Cubans, ships it to the Bahía de los Cochinos. Castro's army routs it.
1961
CIA-backed coup overthrows elected Pres. J. M. Velasco Ibarra of Ecuador, who has been too friendly with Cuba.
1962
CIA engages in campaign in Brazil to keep João Goulart from achieving control of Congress.
1963
CIA-backed coup overthrows elected social democrat Juan Bosch in the Dominican Republic.
1963
A far-right-wing coup in Guatemala, apparently U.S.-supported, forestalls elections in which "extreme leftist" Juan José Arévalo was favored to win.
"It is difficult to develop stable and democratic government [in Guatemala], because so many of the nation's Indians are illiterate and superstitious." --School textbook, 1964
1964
João Goulart of Brazil proposes agrarian reform, nationalization of oil. Ousted by U.S.-supported military coup.
! 1964
The free market in Nicaragua:
The Somoza family controls "about one-tenth of the cultivable land in Nicaragua, and just about everything else worth owning, the country's only airline, one television station, a newspaper, a cement plant, textile mill, several sugar refineries, half-a-dozen breweries and distilleries, and a Mercedes-Benz agency." --Life World Library
1965
A coup in the Dominican Republic attempts to restore Bosch's government. The U.S. invades and occupies the country to stop this "Communist rebellion," with the help of the dictators of Brazil, Paraguay, Honduras, and Nicaragua.
"Representative democracy cannot work in a country such as the Dominican Republic," Bosch declares later. Now why would he say that?
1966
U.S. sends arms, advisors, and Green Berets to Guatemala to implement a counterinsurgency campaign.
"To eliminate a few hundred guerrillas, the government killed perhaps 10,000 Guatemalan peasants." --State Dept. report on the program
1967
A team of Green Berets is sent to Bolivia to help find and assassinate Che Guevara.
1968
Gen. José Alberto Medrano, who is on the payroll of the CIA, organizes the ORDEN paramilitary force, considered the precursor of El Salvador's death squads.
! 1970
In this year (just as an example), U.S. investments in Latin America earn $1.3 billion; while new investments total $302 million.
1970
Salvador Allende Gossens elected in Chile. Suspends foreign loans, nationalizes foreign companies. For the phone system, pays ITT the company's minimized valuation for tax purposes. The CIA provides covert financial support for Allende's opponents, both during and after his election.
1972
U.S. stands by as military suspends an election in El Salvador in which centrist José Napoleón Duarte was favored to win. (Compare with the emphasis placed on the 1982 elections.)
1973
U.S.-supported military coup kills Allende and brings Augusto Pinochet Ugarte to power. Pinochet imprisons well over a hundred thousand Chileans (torture and rape are the usual methods of interrogation), terminates civil liberties, abolishes unions, extends the work week to 48 hours, and reverses Allende's land reforms.
1973
Military takes power in Uruguay, supported by U.S. The subsequent repression reportedly features the world's highest percentage of the population imprisoned for political reasons.
1974
Office of Public Safety is abolished when it is revealed that police are being taught torture techniques.
! 1976
Election of Jimmy Carter leads to a new emphasis on human rights in Central America. Carter cuts off aid to the Guatemalan military (or tries to; some slips through) and reduces aid to El Salvador.
! 1979
Ratification of the Panama Canal treaty which is to return the Canal to Panama by 1999.
"Once again, Uncle Sam put his tail between his legs and crept away rather than face trouble." --Ronald Reagan
1980
A right-wing junta takes over in El Salvador. U.S. begins massively supporting El Salvador, assisting the military in its fight against FMLN guerrillas. Death squads proliferate; Archbishop Romero is assassinated by right-wing terrorists; 35,000 civilians are killed in 1978-81. The rape and murder of four U.S. churchwomen results in the suspension of U.S. military aid for one month.
The U.S. demands that the junta undertake land reform. Within 3 years, however, the reform program is halted by the oligarchy.
"The Soviet Union underlies all the unrest that is going on." --Ronald Reagan
1980
U.S., seeking a stable base for its actions in El Salvador and Nicaragua, tells the Honduran military to clean up its act and hold elections. The U.S. starts pouring in $100 million of aid a year and basing the contras on Honduran territory.
Death squads are also active in Honduras, and the contras tend to act as a state within a state.
1981
The CIA steps in to organize the contras in Nicaragua, who started the previous year as a group of 60 ex-National Guardsmen; by 1985 there are about 12,000 of them. 46 of the 48 top military leaders are ex-Guardsmen. The U.S. also sets up an economic embargo of Nicaragua and pressures the IMF and the World Bank to limit or halt loans to Nicaragua.
1981
Gen. Torrijos of Panama is killed in a plane crash. There is a suspicion of CIA involvement, due to Torrijos' nationalism and friendly relations with Cuba.
1982
A coup brings Gen. Efraín Ríos Montt to power in Guatemala, and gives the Reagan administration the opportunity to increase military aid. Ríos Montt's evangelical beliefs do not prevent him from accelerating the counterinsurgency campaign.
1983
Another coup in Guatemala replaces Ríos Montt. The new President, Oscar Mejía Víctores, was trained by the U.S. and seems to have cleared his coup beforehand with U.S. authorities.
1983
U.S. troops take over tiny Granada. Rather oddly, it intervenes shortly after a coup has overthrown the previous, socialist leader. One of the justifications for the action is the building of a new airport with Cuban help, which Granada claimed was for tourism and Reagan argued was for Soviet use. Later the U.S. announces plans to finish the airport... to develop tourism.
1983
Boland Amendment prohibits CIA and Defense Dept. from spending money to overthrow the government of Nicaragua-- a law the Reagan administration cheerfully violates.
1984
CIA mines three Nicaraguan harbors. Nicaragua takes this action to the World Court, which brings an $18 billion judgment against the U.S. The U.S. refuses to recognize the Court's jurisdiction in the case.
1984
U.S. spends $10 million to orchestrate elections in El Salvador-- something of a farce, since left-wing parties are under heavy repression, and the military has already declared that it will not answer to the elected president.
1989
U.S. invades Panama to dislodge CIA boy gone wrong Manuel Noriega, an event which marks the evolution of the U.S.'s favorite excuse from Communism to drugs.
1996
The U.S. battles global Communism by extending most-favored-nation trading status for China, and tightening the trade embargo on Castro's Cuba.

The list goes from 1906 to 1996....notice how much I cut out.

no more proveable than me saying Iran will attack the U.S. in the next week.
nothing more than an ASSUMPTION. an ASSUMPTION that goes AGAINST America.

go figure.

How does me saying "Iran will attack the U.S." go against the U.S.? It's anti-american to say another country will attack you? Woah...talk about a policed state. Litsen....I'm getting really annoyed by this constant back and forth "you assumed no you assumed" thing...so litsen...either provide proof that all of the facts that I stated did not happen(GL with that cause they did) or please refrain from making bottom of the pit comments.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee;
I asked "How many US members have been charged?"

600...........back to you.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee:
And which one might that be?

So your not done playing word games. OK, it's a free country...........at the moment.

 

[cherokee]

600...........back to you.

:rofl

Originally Posted by Billo_Really
With 600 cases of abuse by US soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan being investigated,

Try again...
Investigated does not mean charged....:roll:

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee:
Try again...
Investigated does not mean charged....

Well they were charged with something by somebody, or the Pentagon would not be investigating them.

 

[vandree]

Ten U.S. Army soldiers have been court-martialed and convicted of crimes committed at Abu Ghraib prison:

Cpl. Charles A. Graner Jr., 372nd M.P. Co.

Convicted by a general court-martial in January 2005 on five counts of assault, maltreatment and conspiracy.

Graner received a 10-year prison sentence and a dishonorable discharge from the Army, and was reduced in rank to private.

Pfc. Lynndie England, 372nd M.P. Co.

Convicted by a general court-martial in September 2005 on one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act.

England was sentenced to three years in prison and received a dishonorable discharge.

Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick II, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in October 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act.

Frederick was sentenced to eight years in prison and the forfeiture of pay. He also received a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.

Spc. Jeremy Sivits, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a special court-martial in May 2004 to four counts of taking photographs of detainee abuse in November 2003.

Sivits was sentenced to one year in military prison, was educed in rank and received a bad-conduct discharge from the military.

Spc. Sabrina Harman, 372nd M.P. Co.

Convicted by a general court-martial in May 2005 of conspiracy, maltreating detainees and dereliction of duty.

She was sentenced to six months in prison and received a bad-conduct discharge.

Sgt. Javal S. Davis, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in February 2005 to assault, dereliction of duty and lying to investigators

Davis was reduced in rank, was sentenced to six months in prison and received a bad-conduct discharge.

Spc. Megan Ambuhl, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a summary court-martial in September 2004 to failing to prevent or report maltreatment of prisoners.

Ambuhl received a reduction in rank to private and the loss of half a month's pay.

Spc. Armin J. Cruz Jr., 325th M.I. Battalion

Pleaded guilty before a special court-martial in September 2004 to conspiracy and mistreating prisoners.

Cruz was sentenced to eight months in prison, was reduced in rank to private and received a bad-conduct discharge.

Spc. Roman Krol, 325th M.I. Battalion

Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in February 2005 to two counts of abusing detainees and one charge of conspiracy abuse.

Kroll was sentenced to 10 months in prison, received a bad-conduct discharge and was reduced in rank to private.

Sgt. Michael J. Smith

An Army dog handler received six months behind bars for using his snarling dog to torment Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

In an e-mail to Salon, Army spokesman Paul Boyce said that as of March 3, 85 soldiers have been court-martialed for abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan. To date, there have been no courts-martial for abuses committed at the U.S. prison in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/prosecutions_convictions/index.html

 

[ProudAmerican]

So says the man who provides no....counter arguments? and critisizes the ones I do provide.

Ok you want more?



The list goes from 1906 to 1996....notice how much I cut out.



How does me saying "Iran will attack the U.S." go against the U.S.? It's anti-american to say another country will attack you? Woah...talk about a policed state. Litsen....I'm getting really annoyed by this constant back and forth "you assumed no you assumed" thing...so litsen...either provide proof that all of the facts that I stated did not happen(GL with that cause they did) or please refrain from making bottom of the pit comments.

all of that, and it still , in no way, supports this statement.....

You have also administered the murder of more people in the world then anybody else. You have backed more terrorist organisations for your own personal gains then anybody else. You've broken more international laws then anybody else. You've invaded more countries then anybody else. Should I keep going? It's funny....when I say "The U.S. does not torture" you feel it's a collective accusation that is wrong. Then when you say "The U.S. has "freed" more people" all the sudden it's a collective achievement.

give me A NUMBER. tell me how many people the U.S. has murdered. numbers, which war or conflict. the circumstances surrounding that war.

which international laws and why. the circumstances surrounding that.

I will concede us supporting terrorism for personal gain and self intrest. and I personally find no problem with that.

when was the last time you did something that WASNT in your own best intrest?


you can cut and paste all you want....the fact is, you made very broad statements with no clue how to back them up.

lets keep this easy for both of us and stick with the first broad, bullshit statement first.

give me the numbers of people murdered. which war. and how that war was started.

I started a thread in the History forum so we can discuss this further Davo.

 

[cherokee]

Well they were charged with something by somebody, or the Pentagon would not be investigating them.

Sorry bill but you Investigate allegations
if you find evidence to support the allegations you charge them.….

 

[cherokee]

Ten U.S. Army soldiers have been court-martialed and convicted of crimes committed at Abu Ghraib prison:

Cpl. Charles A. Graner Jr., 372nd M.P. Co.

Convicted by a general court-martial in January 2005 on five counts of assault, maltreatment and conspiracy.

Graner received a 10-year prison sentence and a dishonorable discharge from the Army, and was reduced in rank to private.

Pfc. Lynndie England, 372nd M.P. Co.

Convicted by a general court-martial in September 2005 on one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act.

England was sentenced to three years in prison and received a dishonorable discharge.

Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick II, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in October 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act.

Frederick was sentenced to eight years in prison and the forfeiture of pay. He also received a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.

Spc. Jeremy Sivits, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a special court-martial in May 2004 to four counts of taking photographs of detainee abuse in November 2003.

Sivits was sentenced to one year in military prison, was educed in rank and received a bad-conduct discharge from the military.

Spc. Sabrina Harman, 372nd M.P. Co.

Convicted by a general court-martial in May 2005 of conspiracy, maltreating detainees and dereliction of duty.

She was sentenced to six months in prison and received a bad-conduct discharge.

Sgt. Javal S. Davis, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in February 2005 to assault, dereliction of duty and lying to investigators

Davis was reduced in rank, was sentenced to six months in prison and received a bad-conduct discharge.

Spc. Megan Ambuhl, 372nd M.P. Co.

Pleaded guilty before a summary court-martial in September 2004 to failing to prevent or report maltreatment of prisoners.

Ambuhl received a reduction in rank to private and the loss of half a month's pay.

Spc. Armin J. Cruz Jr., 325th M.I. Battalion

Pleaded guilty before a special court-martial in September 2004 to conspiracy and mistreating prisoners.

Cruz was sentenced to eight months in prison, was reduced in rank to private and received a bad-conduct discharge.

Spc. Roman Krol, 325th M.I. Battalion

Pleaded guilty before a general court-martial in February 2005 to two counts of abusing detainees and one charge of conspiracy abuse.

Kroll was sentenced to 10 months in prison, received a bad-conduct discharge and was reduced in rank to private.

Sgt. Michael J. Smith

An Army dog handler received six months behind bars for using his snarling dog to torment Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

In an e-mail to Salon, Army spokesman Paul Boyce said that as of March 3, 85 soldiers have been court-martialed for abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan. To date, there have been no courts-martial for abuses committed at the U.S. prison in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/prosecutions_convictions/index.html

Yep, and unlike others groups who like to cut heads off for TV we prosecute our own who abuse.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee:
Sorry bill but you Investigate allegations
if you find evidence to support the allegations you charge them.….

What was my point?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee
Yep, and unlike others groups who like to cut heads off for TV we prosecute our own who abuse.

So tell me, how many heads does a new plasma screen cost these days? You know, native Americans didn't start chopping scalps off until it we kept invading their lands and destroying their way of life.

 

[cherokee]

What was my point?

How many of the 600 have been charged?
What are the charges?
How many of the 600 have been convicted?

 

[cherokee]

Billo_Really]So tell me, how many heads does a new plasma screen cost these days?

I dont know 16? maybe 17?
Whats the going price for heads today? I didnt see any on ebay.....:roll:

You know, native Americans didn't start chopping scalps off until it we kept invading their lands and destroying their way of life.

So I guess now we are going to talk about my people?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee
So I guess now we are going to talk about my people?

We can talk about whatever you like. I think what this country did to Native Americans is the biggest black mark in this country's history. What Hussein did to the Kurds does not even compare to the genocide we caused during our industrial revolution.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Cherokee
How many of the 600 have been charged?
What are the charges?
How many of the 600 have been convicted?

No. But thank you anyway for making an honest effort to answer the question instead of coming back with some snide remark. My point was to offer evidence that these are not isolated occurances. That the volume of alleged abuses [to put it your way] indicates that the problem is more systematic than it is the isolated actions of some local rogue warriors.

 

[cherokee]

No. But thank you anyway for making an honest effort to answer the question instead of coming back with some snide remark. My point was to offer evidence that these are not isolated occurances. That the volume of alleged abuses [to put it your way] indicates that the problem is more systematic than it is the isolated actions of some local rogue warriors.

volume of alleged abuses?

Thats proves NOTHING!
You cant convict anyone on allegations alone.
Its this little thing called “proof”

 

[cherokee]

We can talk about whatever you like. I think what this country did to Native Americans is the biggest black mark in this country's history. What Hussein did to the Kurds does not even compare to the genocide we caused during our industrial revolution.

Can we stick to one f**king thing?...

How about the 600 cases of alleged abuses

 

[cherokee]

I dont know 16? maybe 17?
Whats the going price for heads today? I didnt see any on ebay.....:roll:

was I close to the right number?............


you come up with a good reply........:roll:
I'm off to the hospital...

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by cherokee
Thats proves NOTHING!
You cant convict anyone on allegations alone.
Its this little thing called “proof”

Stop trying to change the subject!

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by cherokee
Can we stick to one f**king thing?...

I bet this is the closest we will ever come to an agreement.

 

[ProudAmerican]

plasmas are highly over rated.

I suggest an LCD HD projector and a 110 inch screen.

 

[cherokee]

plasmas are highly over rated.

I suggest an LCD HD projector and a 110 inch screen.

I have heard that also. They dont last very long 5 years?

 

[ProudAmerican]

I have heard that also. They dont last very long 5 years?

The bulb in them lasts around 5,000 hours. replacement bulbs are expensive.....about 350.00

ohh, my bad. you meant the plasmas?? Im not sure of their life span, but There is no way I would spend that kind of money on a screen that size.

they are roughly what......2 grand for one around 42 inches? (forgive me if im off on price and size as I havent looked at them in a while)

and sorry for the hijack....I was kidding around.

 

[The Butcher]

If you were shot by a German, do you blame all Germans?....

If that German wore the uniform of civil or lawful enforcement, and was representing the country of Germany, it can be deduced that the country itself either supports this action or does not care enough about it until brought public to deal with it. Fail at making analogies much?