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The United States Of America...Does Not Torture.

cnredd

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Davo said:
Here's proof that the United States of America has never tortured a human being or treated it's prisoners of war in inhumane ways.

Conservatives and Liberals be amazed at the wonders your goverment creates. How can people still support this man?
And were there people in the military arrested due to this?...Yes...

Were they convicted?...Yes...

Are they sitting in jail as we speak?...Yes...

Now it's your turn Swifty....

Why did you use the abominations of a few individuals as proof that the "United States of America" is guilty?...

If you were shot by a German, do you blame all Germans?....

If you were mugged by a Latino, do you blame all Latinos?...

The population of the United States military is over two million...

Why did you just convict them all?...:roll:
 

alphamale

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Davo said:
Here's proof that the United States of America has never tortured a human being or treated it's prisoners of war in inhumane ways.

Conservatives and Liberals be amazed at the wonders your goverment creates. How can people still support this man?
Pure defamation. Those were the actions of individuals out of control committing acts illegal under the military code (this sort of thing unfortunately happens in ALL wars), and certainly was NOT the policy of the U.S. government.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by alphamale
Pure defamation. Those were the actions of individuals out of control committing acts illegal under the military code (this sort of thing unfortunately happens in ALL wars), and certainly was NOT the policy of the U.S. government.
With 600 cases of abuse by US soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan being investigated, I don't see how that could be defamation. And it is definately the Administrations policy. Why would they go to the trouble to redefine Geneva Convention terms for prisoners if they weren't planning on torturing people or denying them basic rights? Why do we have "renditions" if it is not the policy of the U.S. government? Why do we have "ghost" detainees if it is not the policy of the U.S? Were not doing this to give them "better" treatment. Were doing this to torture them.

The Pentagon claims to have investigated at least 600 cases of alleged abuse by American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, and to have disciplined or punished 230 soldiers for improper behaviour. But a study by three New York-based human rights groups, due to be published next month, will claim that most soldiers found guilty of abuse received only "administrative" discipline such as loss of rank or pay, confinement to base or periods of extra duty.

Of the 76 courts martial that the Pentagon is believed to have initiated, only a handful are known to have resulted in jail sentences of more than a year - notably including the architects of detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.

Most other cases ended with sentences of two, three or four months. "That's not punishment, and that's the problem," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch, which is compiling the study with two other groups.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2103695,00.html
 

windofchange

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I think anyone who undertakes even a superficial study of the C.I.A and C.I.A history/policy would draw the conclusion that the U.S does in fact endorse and encourage torture, not only does the C.I.A torture but they actively train some of the most oppressive governments i.e. Pinochet and Marcos on how to torture. I can understand if you take the position that torture is justified, I disagree but I can understand, but to deny that the U.S is involved in torture is just down right naive. Is a shame really that a man like George W Bush can make all the great things about the US and all the achievements of his predecessors seem so insignificant compared to his blatant disregard for humani rights and international law
 

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we arent allowed to blame all muslelms for 9-11, but the people that hate america are allowed to blame the entire country for the acts of a few.

smells like hypocrisy to me.
 

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ProudAmerican said:
we arent allowed to blame all muslelms for 9-11, but the people that hate america are allowed to blame the entire country for the acts of a few.

smells like hypocrisy to me.
Here's the funniest part. Bush used that same sentence(refering to "The United States of America does not torture"). These soldiers torturing the Iraqi...were most likely seen by their superiors who did nothing about these "interrogation tactics" and did nothing. Doesnt that defeat the statement that "these are only the actions of a few unruly soldiers"? I never said I hated America(I just dont agree with 90% of it's "Stab in the back" policies) nor did I blame it for it's politicians's actions I used a sentence your highest politician in office used. And no you dont have the right to blame muslims cause then you'd be a racist fool.
 

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Today the Government has agreed to release all the Abu Ghraib pictures and video.

Yes, some of the people responsible for the abuse have been convicted, however those who are in higher positions and allowed the abuse to happen and closed their eyes are still there. The fact that so many pictures and videos of abuse (or in other words evidence of crime) were taken is proof that the soldiers were not afraid of being punished. After all who is so stupid of taking a picture of himself while committing a crime?
 

ProudAmerican

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And no you dont have the right to blame muslims cause then you'd be a racist fool.
no, then id be just like you.

These soldiers torturing the Iraqi...were most likely seen by their superiors who did nothing about these "interrogation tactics" and did nothing
if I said, "most likely, all Muslelms agree with the 9-11 hijackers.....what would you think? you would think Im an idiot, just like I think you are an idiot for ASSUMING such things as "their superiors most likely saw it and supported it"

debates go much smoother, and seem much more intelligent when you deal in facts, rather than assumptions. dont you think?
 
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cnredd

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According to this logic, France approves the overturning and torching of cars...
 

alphamale

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With 600 cases of abuse by US soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan being investigated, I don't see how that could be defamation.
Notice how the sly lib slips frrom torture to "abuse"? And what's the definition of abuse include? Yelling cuss words? Pushing people out of the way? And they're being "investigated"? Sounds like the usual liberal/left Iraq concoction - a sand grain of truth surrounded by ten tons of fluff.
 

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no, then id be just like you.
Ok do you read atleast half the text before you start typing? Cause I dont think you do. "I" my person...havent said that the U.S.(United States) tortures. "I"(again me) used a sentence your president used(It's called Quoting). If you read what I typed I never once stated that U.S. does indeed torture. You just ran off to defend yourself(and fellow country men) I guess cause of a collective "guilty" conscience.

if I said, "most likely, all Muslelms agree with the 9-11 hijackers.....what would you think? you would think Im an idiot, just like I think you are an idiot for ASSUMING such things as "their superiors most likely saw it and supported it"
Ok....I've seen you spell it wrong 15 times in the last 3 days I've seen here. It is spelled MUSLIM, in French MUSULMAN in Spanish MUSULMÁN, in Arabic مسلم , in Dutch MOSLIM, in Italian MUSULMANO, WHATEVER YOU DO SPELL IT RIGHT. I know you'd get pissed off if I spelled Americans this way : Ameri****s. If their superiors had reported it, the military wouldnt have waited until the news got it's hands on a few pictures/videos to reprimand these soldiers.

debates go much smoother, and seem much more intelligent when you deal in facts, rather than assumptions. dont you think?
Indeed. Yet....I have still to see you provide facts in any of your posts that contradict what other people say. Just little 4th grade hillbilly replies that most people with very little knowledge of facts give. :)
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by alphamale:
Notice how the sly lib slips frrom torture to "abuse"? And what's the definition of abuse include? Yelling cuss words? Pushing people out of the way? And they're being "investigated"? Sounds like the usual liberal/left Iraq concoction - a sand grain of truth surrounded by ten tons of fluff.
It's convenient to think it's all bullshit, isn't it? Do you have any evidence to offer that would provide justification for the conclusions you are drawing? It's prudent to take things with a grain of salt. It's irresponsible to treat everything you hear as bullshit or left wing lies without first proving it.

In response to your query, abuse is shooting innocent people because your having a bad day. Abuse is arresting people because they look like a terrorist and you don't have time to wait for an interpreter. Abuse is thinking you can go around and do whatever you want to without being held accountable for your actions. Do the math.

Don't believe me. Here's a couple statements from one of our own that served his country in Iraq.

Comments from Michael Blake who was a marine in Iraq from April 2003 to March 2004.

US soldiers...were told little about Iraq, Iraqis or Islam before serving there; other than a book of Arabic phrases, "the message was always: 'Islam is evil' and 'They hate us.' Most of the guys I was with believed it."

...one day when his unit spent eight hours guarding a group of Iraqi women and children whose men were being questioned. He recalls: "The men were taken away and the women were screaming and crying, and I just remember thinking: this was exactly what Saddam used to do - and now we're doing it."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1741942,00.html
By the way, the word "investigated" comes from the Pentagon. Or do you consider them left wing libs sitting around concocting lies too?
 

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Indeed. Yet....I have still to see you provide facts in any of your posts that contradict what other people say. Just little 4th grade hillbilly replies that most people with very little knowledge of facts give. :)
I hate people that cant debate without getting pissy.

I seem to have stumped you with my reply about lumping ALL MUSLEMS into one group, like you did the military.

dont bother replying to me if you cant be civil.
 

ProudAmerican

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"I" my person...havent said that the U.S.(United States) tortures. "I"(again me) used a sentence your president used(It's called Quoting). If you read what I typed I never once stated that U.S. does indeed torture.
You started this thread. Therefor I assume that you think the U.S. does indeed torture. If you do not, then we agree, and we can move on to another topic.

You just ran off to defend yourself(and fellow country men)
Its what I do when I feel they are being incorrectly acused of something.

I guess cause of a collective "guilty" conscience.
The U.S. has liberated and freed more people than any other country on earth. why would I feel guilty about that?

Ok....I've seen you spell it wrong 15 times in the last 3 days I've seen here
I could spell it "murdering religious nutbags" if you prefer. but in order to keep things civil, Ill just keep using MUSLEM.


If their superiors had reported it, the military wouldnt have waited until the news got it's hands on a few pictures/videos to reprimand these soldiers.
and yet we have no idea what the military was doing about the situation. those that are against the military and America, will assume nothing was going to be done. Those that believe in our military, and the good it does around the world, will assume they were going to handle the situation properly.

its the difference between those that TRULY support the troops, and those that only claim to.


Indeed. Yet....I have still to see you provide facts in any of your posts that contradict what other people say. Just little 4th grade hillbilly replies that most people with very little knowledge of facts give. :)
already responded to this....but I will add one more thing.

I guess im fortunate that 4th grade hillbilly tactics are all it takes to hang with most of the liberals here.

:mrgreen:
 

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You started this thread. Therefor I assume that you think the U.S. does indeed torture. If you do not, then we agree, and we can move on to another topic.
Assuming is what made the blind man fall into a hole. Again, I posted something I saw online that contradicts what your president says. You "assumed" wich is another word for "guessed" that "I" was saying the U.S. does torture. You my friend are mistaken. I have yet to take a stance on this issue. What do take a stance on is...how can people still support this war and this president after all the attrocities commited.

Its what I do when I feel they are being incorrectly acused of something.
AGAIN you have mistaken my words with accusations. I have never once said "AMERICANS ARE MURDERING BASTARDS" you once again must have assumed that.

The U.S. has liberated and freed more people than any other country on earth. why would I feel guilty about that?
You have also administered the murder of more people in the world then anybody else. You have backed more terrorist organisations for your own personal gains then anybody else. You've broken more international laws then anybody else. You've invaded more countries then anybody else. Should I keep going? It's funny....when I say "The U.S. does not torture" you feel it's a collective accusation that is wrong. Then when you say "The U.S. has "freed" more people" all the sudden it's a collective achievement.

I could spell it "murdering religious nutbags" if you prefer. but in order to keep things civil, Ill just keep using MUSLEM.
If you spelt it "murdering religious nutbags" I'd tell you to go back to school...cause it's only 1 word. Not 3.


and yet we have no idea what the military was doing about the situation. those that are against the military and America, will assume nothing was going to be done. Those that believe in our military, and the good it does around the world, will assume they were going to handle the situation properly.
Again...You "ASSUMED" that the military was doing something about this. Thats like Bush assuming that "someone" was going to do something about those stranded people in Katrina. Assuming is nothing more then guessing. Hasnt history taught you that when you "assume" when it comes to world problems you'll most likely be wrong? Bush "ASSUMED" that major combat operations would be over within 2 weeks. That was....3 years ago? Bush "ASSUMES" he's in power...when it's really Karl Rove. Americans "ASSUMED" they were safe....Until 9/11. See my point?

its the difference between those that TRULY support the troops, and those that only claim to.




already responded to this....but I will add one more thing.

I guess im fortunate that 4th grade hillbilly tactics are all it takes to hang with most of the liberals here.

:mrgreen:
Refrain from calling me a liberal as I have some conservative views. :) . How is that insulting? :|
 

ProudAmerican

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Assuming is what made the blind man fall into a hole. Again, I posted something I saw online that contradicts what your president says. You "assumed" wich is another word for "guessed" that "I" was saying the U.S. does torture. You my friend are mistaken.
sorry for my assumption. its common place for people to post links to issues they dont agree with and then start a thread arguing that side of the issue against others.

my bad.

next topic.

I have yet to take a stance on this issue.
really?

from the following I would say its perfectly clear where you stand.

You have also administered the murder of more people in the world then anybody else. You have backed more terrorist organisations for your own personal gains then anybody else. You've broken more international laws then anybody else. You've invaded more countries then anybody else.
please be specific. which people are you talking about being murdered? go into detail as of the reasons, the outcome, and whether or not America was attacked first in those cases.

please tell us which terrorist organizations, the reason we backed them, and the outcome.

please tell us the international laws and the issue surrounding them.

please tell us the countries and the reasons.

I mean hell, if you are going to make these accusations, I dont think its asking to much for you to be more specific.

Again...You "ASSUMED" that the military was doing something about this.
yes. its the difference in truly believing we are the good guys, instead of taking the stance you take, that we are the bad guys.

Hasnt history taught you that when you "assume" when it comes to world problems you'll most likely be wrong?
you are accusing me of doing the EXACT SAME THING you did. you ASSUMED nothing was going to be done.
whats the difference?

Refrain from calling me a liberal as I have some conservative views. :)
blame that one on yourself. again I will ASSUME it was YOU that set up YOUR profile.
 
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Davo

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sorry for my assumption. its common place for people to post links to issues they dont agree with and then start a thread arguing that side of the issue against others.

my bad.

next topic.
All's forgiven I "assume".


really?

from the following I would say its perfectly clear where you stand.
You would again "assume" this.

please be specific. which people are you talking about being murdered? go into detail as of the reasons, the outcome, and whether or not America was attacked first in those cases.

please tell us which terrorist organizations, the reason we backed them, and the outcome.

please tell us the international laws and the issue surrounding them.

please tell us the countries and the reasons.

I mean hell, if you are going to make these accusations, I dont think its asking to much for you to be more specific.
It's common knowledge that bin Laden was funded by the CIA to fight the Soviet occupation troops in Afghanistan. Andrew Evered Allen, a reclusive millionaire and CIA insider, admitted as much in court documents. He also admitted the CIA is attempting to overthrow the government of Myanmar, or Burma.

Overthrowing governments and killing dissidents is what the CIA does.

Mark Zapezauer has written extensively on CIA operations in Afghanistan under the Reagan regime. Reagan and the CIA spent between five and six billion dollars to bankroll and equip the drug trafficking Afghan mujihadeen, the largest and most expensive operation ever conducted by the CIA. As Ahmed Rashid has detailed, between 1982 and 1992 some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 43 Islamic countries trained and fought with the Afghan mujihadeen. Reagan's CIA director, William Casey, orchestrated the recruitment and arming of these vicious anti-Soviet warriors.
Bin Laden and the CIA

Luis Posada Carrilles(Cuban Terrorist that has been protected by the U.S.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles

yes. its the difference in truly believing we are the good guys, instead of taking the stance you take, that we are the bad guys.
If you understood I wasnt talking about all Americans...why do you still say that I'm calling you the "bad guys"...you have serious issues with the words "SINGULAR" and "PLURAL"

you are accusing me of doing the EXACT SAME THING you did. you ASSUMED nothing was going to be done.
whats the difference?
I didnt assume nothing was done(at the time of the incident) because that is the truth. If it hadnt been for the media nothing would have ever been done and this would have been one more classified folder in Washington D.C.

blame that one on yourself. again I will ASSUME it was YOU that set up YOUR profile.
They didnt have "Not constricted by categorization"
 

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so after this statement......

You have also administered the murder of more people in the world then anybody else. You have backed more terrorist organisations for your own personal gains then anybody else. You've broken more international laws then anybody else. You've invaded more countries then anybody else. Should I keep going? It's funny....when I say "The U.S. does not torture" you feel it's a collective accusation that is wrong. Then when you say "The U.S. has "freed" more people" all the sudden it's a collective achievement.
you feel you have adequately proven it by showing me

Bin Laden and the CIA

Luis Posada Carrilles(Cuban Terrorist that has been protected by the U.S.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
weak. very very weak.

If it hadnt been for the media nothing would have ever been done and this would have been one more classified folder in Washington D.C.
no more proveable than me saying Iran will attack the U.S. in the next week.
nothing more than an ASSUMPTION. an ASSUMPTION that goes AGAINST America.

go figure.
 

BodiSatva

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"we arent allowed to blame all muslelms for 9-11, but the people that hate america are allowed to blame the entire country for the acts of a few.

smells like hypocrisy to me"
Good Point

Redd -
"According to this logic, France approves the overturning and torching of cars..."
:lol: Haha GREAT POINT!


Originally posted by alphamale:
Notice how the sly lib slips frrom torture to "abuse"? And what's the definition of abuse include? Yelling cuss words? Pushing people out of the way? And they're being "investigated"? Sounds like the usual liberal/left Iraq concoction - a sand grain of truth surrounded by ten tons of fluff.
Originally posted by Bill:
It's convenient to think it's all bullshit, isn't it?
You are assuming that he thinks that it is all BS? Is this another liberal tactic alphamale? haha...I think so..

Bill, It seems very plain that what he is actually saying is that liberals use deceptive tactics in order to make an arguement go their way. ;)
 

cherokee

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Billo_Really said:
With 600 cases of abuse by US soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan being investigated, I don't see how that could be defamation. And it is definately the Administrations policy. Why would they go to the trouble to redefine Geneva Convention terms for prisoners if they weren't planning on torturing people or denying them basic rights? Why do we have "renditions" if it is not the policy of the U.S. government? Why do we have "ghost" detainees if it is not the policy of the U.S? Were not doing this to give them "better" treatment. Were doing this to torture them.

And just how many of the 600 cases have been found to be abuse and not some bs claim by a pi$$ed off guy who had his weapons taken away?

How many US members have been charged?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Cherokee:
And just how many of the 600 cases have been found to be abuse and not some bs claim by a pi$$ed off guy who had his weapons taken away?

How many US members have been charged?
I don't know. You tell me. How many instances has a "...pissed off guy who had his weapons taken away," filed charges of abuse by our soldiers on Iraqis?

In answer to your second question, if the Pentagon is reviewing the cases, then it's a pretty good guess that they all are "...US members."
 

cherokee

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Billo_Really said:
I don't know. You tell me. How many instances has a "...pissed off guy who had his weapons taken away," filed charges of abuse by our soldiers on Iraqis?

In answer to your second question, if the Pentagon is reviewing the cases, then it's a pretty good guess that they all are "...US members."

Hmm SO you are telling me you don’t know?
How interesting....
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Cherokee:
Hmm SO you are telling me you don’t know?
How interesting....
That's right. I don't know how many pissed off guys who had their weapons taken away have filed charges. Now are you going to answer the question, or play more word games?
 

cherokee

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Billo_Really said:
?
In answer to your second question, if the Pentagon is reviewing the cases, then it's a pretty good guess that they all are "...US members."

I asked "How many US members have been charged?"
 
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