• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The truth of global warming II

I hope you grow up and see that the world is more complex then CO2. Maybe one day.

East Anglia. They have such a good reputation for being corrupt anyway.
JC-ROFL.gif



Therer is also no consensus on GW.



Your opinions are noted. When you have proof that AGW is not happening, please come back and see us.
 
Last edited:
Nope, it just shows that you are programmed to believe anything and everything bad said about Obama, whether it's true or not.

ricksfolly

No Obama is about continuing subsidies and he is going to start having 15% ethanol in gas produced. I use ethanol free gas.
 
Your opinions are noted. When you have proof that AGW is not happening, please come back and see us.

Actually, I'm reasonably certain that the earth had been in a 150 year or so warming trend...

But your 'proof' that this is caused by pop-cans and farting is feeble... circumstantial at best.

As I pointed out previous... maybe 30% of the claims you had made about the problems ACTUALLY had some sort of relation to CO2 levels in the atmosphere, the rest... 'economic issues caused by CO2', give me a break... polar bears can't swim... tell that to the inuit that have to beg for the right to shoot them to protect their towns, because ****heads in Miami (point being far-removed from the animals and their natural habitat) don't know that those monsters can swim.

POLAR BEARS

For water... there are numerous documentaries that get into the relevant facts... ex : FLOW : for the love of water. Among others

And... you can ask an economist what they think of CO2 in relation to the economy.

But I can see how the neo-stalinists operate, wanting to control what you do, what kind of lights people use, how they get energy, how much they pay for energy, how many kids, and every other facet of life you can imagine... that's why CO2 is such the perfect issue to raise because it can be claimed CO2 to justify anything.
 
Natural climate change is happening as it has since the beginning of time.

Cancer has happened since the beginning of time. This must be proof that cigarettes can't cause cancer.

This is your own logic.
 
Cancer has happened since the beginning of time. This must be proof that cigarettes can't cause cancer.

This is your own logic.


No that is your logic which I have seen many times as false.
 
No that is your logic which I have seen many times as false.

No, man, you literally just posted that very logic yourself. You were asked to show proof and your response was that climate has always changed. It's the same logic.

Your opinions are noted. When you have proof that AGW is not happening, please come back and see us.

Your response:

Natural climate change is happening as it has since the beginning of time.

Your logic here is that climate has always changed, therefore mankind is not affecting climate.

The same logic would mean that:
Cancer has always happened, therefore mankind cannot affect cancer rates.


If you want to draw a distinction between those two statements, you're going to have to post some evidence as to why that logic applies to climate and not to other things.
 
Last edited:
No, man, you literally just posted that very logic yourself. You were asked to show proof and your response was that climate has always changed. It's the same logic.



Your response:



Your logic here is that climate has always changed, therefore mankind is not affecting climate.

The same logic would mean that:
Cancer has always happened, therefore mankind cannot affect cancer rates.


If you want to draw a distinction between those two statements, you're going to have to post some evidence as to why that logic applies to climate and not to other things.

Only in your liberal mind. That is more like apples and oranges
 
No, man, you literally just posted that very logic yourself. You were asked to show proof and your response was that climate has always changed. It's the same logic.



Your response:



Your logic here is that climate has always changed, therefore mankind is not affecting climate.

The same logic would mean that:
Cancer has always happened, therefore mankind cannot affect cancer rates.


If you want to draw a distinction between those two statements, you're going to have to post some evidence as to why that logic applies to climate and not to other things.

Actually, in the studies of mummies and what not, they have yet to find a case of cancer in the ancient world, and have started to suggest that cancer is mostly a recent phenomenon... it kinda makes sense, but I don't think it's anything conclusive.
 
We have been in a solar minimum and the heating trend continues. The models have underestimated the speed of our warming, not overestimated it!


"The Northern Hemisphere Circulation study found that present climate change models – computer representations of the atmosphere, ocean and land surface - have underestimated the changes in air pressure, leading to an underestimate of the impact of global warming on weather patterns."
Impact Of Global Warming On Weather Patterns Underestimated
Your link has nothing to do with solar radiation levels. The solar energy output fluctuates on both 20 and 50 year cycles. It is never at a constant "minimum" or "maximum".
You cannot provide me with a model that includes solar radiation that supports AGW because when those cycles are added to the computer model, all human influence is negated.

There was no scientific consensus on the Global Ice Age hysteria from the mid 70's, while there has been a scientific consensus on AGW since 2007.

"Scientific consensus" two hundred years ago stated that bloodletting was beneficial in treatment of many diseases. Hmmmm That didn't quite pan out, did it?
The warmer community finds "consensus" among themselves, but not all scientists agree. The warmers merely try to shut dissenting voices out of the debate.

CO2 is a bit played in climate. It's greenhouse effects are mitigated by the increased in the albedo of the atmosphere from the increased CO2 levels. It was this increased albedo level that the fear mongers were using to drive their "theories" in the 70's. Their "theory" fell apart after the temps started rising again after steadily dropping for about 40 years while CO2 levels rose steadily. Add that to the FACT that human activity is a very small contributor to CO2 levels in the first place. There is far more CO2 produced by the oceans through decomposition & natural leakage of methane case from subsurface fissures than humans are capable of producing. The "greenhouse" gas that has the most to do with climate change is water vapor. Again, the primary source is the ocean. As solar radiation increases, more water evaporates. As solar radiation decreases, so does evaporation. If humans stopped all CO2 emissions tomorrow (including breathing) it would not cause a significant change in planetary temperature.

On a side note, there have been benefits from the rising CO2 levels. On is an increase in crop yields.
 
Should we believe scientist?

This is what they said in 2004

Warming to Cause Catastrophic Rise in Sea Level?

However, the biggest danger, many experts warn, is that global warming will cause sea levels to rise dramatically. Thermal expansion has already raised the oceans 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters). But that's nothing compared to what would happen if, for example, Greenland's massive ice sheet were to melt.


This is the reality

Bombshell conclusion – new peer reviewed analysis: “worldwide-temperature increase has not produced acceleration of global sea level over the past 100 years” | Watts Up With That?

We analyzed the complete records of 57 U.S. tide gauges that had average record lengths of 82 years and records from1930 to 2010 for 25 gauges, and we obtained small decelerations of 20.0014 and20.0123 mm/y2, respectively. We obtained similar decelerations using worldwide-gauge records in the original data set of Church andWhite (2006) and a 2009 revision (for the periods of 1930–2001 and 1930–2007) and by extending Douglas’s (1992) analyses of worldwide gauges by 25 years.

The extension of the Douglas (1992) data from 1905 to 1985 for 25 years to 2010 included the period from 1993 to 2010 when satellite altimeters recorded a sea-level trend greater than that of the 20th century, yet the addition of the 25 years resulted in a slightly greater deceleration.
 
Your link has nothing to do with solar radiation levels. The solar energy output fluctuates on both 20 and 50 year cycles. It is never at a constant "minimum" or "maximum".
You cannot provide me with a model that includes solar radiation that supports AGW because when those cycles are added to the computer model, all human influence is negated.
This is just plain not true.



"Scientific consensus" two hundred years ago stated that bloodletting was beneficial in treatment of many diseases. Hmmmm That didn't quite pan out, did it?
Irrelevant.

The warmer community finds "consensus" among themselves, but not all scientists agree. The warmers merely try to shut dissenting voices out of the debate.
Very few people predicted cooling is the point you seem to have missed.


CO2 is a bit played in climate. It's greenhouse effects are mitigated by the increased in the albedo of the atmosphere from the increased CO2 levels. It was this increased albedo level that the fear mongers were using to drive their "theories" in the 70's. Their "theory" fell apart after the temps started rising again after steadily dropping for about 40 years while CO2 levels rose steadily.

A majority predicted warming would continue soon. They predicted this during a period when temperatures were dropping. You seem to be missing the very key point that nobody ever said that CO2 was the only factor. Therefore, just because CO2 was rising in that period doesn't mean that temperature was predicted to always be rising.
Add that to the FACT that human activity is a very small contributor to CO2 levels in the first place. There is far more CO2 produced by the oceans through decomposition & natural leakage of methane case from subsurface fissures than humans are capable of producing.

Human activity is responsible for virtually all of the net change in CO2 concentrations from pre-industrial levels. The ocean and other natural sources emit far more CO2, true, but when skeptics spit that talking point at you they're ignoring the fact that nature is also a massive carbon sink. Every growing season vast quantities of CO2 are removed from the atmosphere by nature. In total, nature is actually a net carbon sink.

The "greenhouse" gas that has the most to do with climate change is water vapor. Again, the primary source is the ocean. As solar radiation increases, more water evaporates. As solar radiation decreases, so does evaporation. If humans stopped all CO2 emissions tomorrow (including breathing) it would not cause a significant change in planetary temperature.

Water vapor is responsible for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, yes. However, water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing. It amplifies existing temperature trends (in either direction) but cannot actually start a trend on its own because the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is determined by temperature, not the other way around.

Historically, CO2 has acted in the same manner. A warming trend caused ice to melt and the ocean to release more CO2, increasing the greenhouse effect, causing a little more warming, releasing a little more CO2, etc. The reverse happened during a cooling trend, amplifying the cooling. However, this time around there was an artificial addition of CO2 to the atmosphere. We've increased levels about 40% since the pre-industrial era.

On a side note, there have been benefits from the rising CO2 levels. On is an increase in crop yields.

These benefits are outweighed by the other effects of climate change. Cropy yields are predicted to drop, not rise.
 
This is just plain not true.




Irrelevant.


Very few people predicted cooling is the point you seem to have missed.




A majority predicted warming would continue soon. They predicted this during a period when temperatures were dropping. You seem to be missing the very key point that nobody ever said that CO2 was the only factor. Therefore, just because CO2 was rising in that period doesn't mean that temperature was predicted to always be rising.


Human activity is responsible for virtually all of the net change in CO2 concentrations from pre-industrial levels. The ocean and other natural sources emit far more CO2, true, but when skeptics spit that talking point at you they're ignoring the fact that nature is also a massive carbon sink. Every growing season vast quantities of CO2 are removed from the atmosphere by nature. In total, nature is actually a net carbon sink.



Water vapor is responsible for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, yes. However, water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing. It amplifies existing temperature trends (in either direction) but cannot actually start a trend on its own because the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is determined by temperature, not the other way around.

Historically, CO2 has acted in the same manner. A warming trend caused ice to melt and the ocean to release more CO2, increasing the greenhouse effect, causing a little more warming, releasing a little more CO2, etc. The reverse happened during a cooling trend, amplifying the cooling. However, this time around there was an artificial addition of CO2 to the atmosphere. We've increased levels about 40% since the pre-industrial era.



These benefits are outweighed by the other effects of climate change. Cropy yields are predicted to drop, not rise.

You keep blaming man. Show how much man increased the temp .
 
The warmer community finds "consensus" among themselves, but not all scientists agree. The warmers merely try to shut dissenting voices out of the debate.

Thanks for gracing us with your opinion.
 
Irrelevant.

Possibly, but the point is that 'consensus' on scientific matters over the course of time can be found to be thoroughly flawed.

A majority predicted warming would continue soon. They predicted this during a period when temperatures were dropping. You seem to be missing the very key point that nobody ever said that CO2 was the only factor. Therefore, just because CO2 was rising in that period doesn't mean that temperature was predicted to always be rising.

Show me a projection from the IPCC and other related groups that shows a point where there's going to be cooling based on the climate models. Does this mean the warmers have thrown Mann's hockey-stick next to gore's inconvenient film under the bus??

Human activity is responsible for virtually all of the net change in CO2 concentrations from pre-industrial levels. The ocean and other natural sources emit far more CO2, true, but when skeptics spit that talking point at you they're ignoring the fact that nature is also a massive carbon sink. Every growing season vast quantities of CO2 are removed from the atmosphere by nature. In total, nature is actually a net carbon sink.

Yes.... but you forgot : correlation != causation. You're telling me that spicy food is causing the ulcer, when in actuality it's related to the ulcer but only because it irritates it and causes pain. The actual ulcer is caused by a bacteria, and the link to spicy food is just a correlation.

Water vapor is responsible for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, yes. However, water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing. It amplifies existing temperature trends (in either direction) but cannot actually start a trend on its own because the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is determined by temperature, not the other way around.

Just like ALL GHG's.

Historically, CO2 has acted in the same manner. A warming trend caused ice to melt and the ocean to release more CO2, increasing the greenhouse effect, causing a little more warming, releasing a little more CO2, etc. The reverse happened during a cooling trend, amplifying the cooling. However, this time around there was an artificial addition of CO2 to the atmosphere. We've increased levels about 40% since the pre-industrial era.

The increase in CO2 is like an increase in eating spicy food to someone with an ulcer. Just because CO2 goes up approximately with the climate doesn't mean that the Co2 is the CAUSE, much like the increase in spicy food just causes a person to get ulcer pain. The connection is skin deep.

These benefits are outweighed by the other effects of climate change. Cropy yields are predicted to drop, not rise.

Those same people also projected that last year the coastal cities would be flooded with an extra 10ft of water, so we'll have to weight the alarmism based on the results of their past predictions.
 
You keep blaming man. Show how much man increased the temp .

I've shown you this before, yet you keep asking. When I show you, you just dismiss the source as AGW propaganda. Why should I go through the effort? You'll just dismiss it without even reading it because you're biased against any source that favors AGW. You've literally admitted that.
 
The increase in CO2 is like an increase in eating spicy food to someone with an ulcer. Just because CO2 goes up approximately with the climate doesn't mean that the Co2 is the CAUSE, much like the increase in spicy food just causes a person to get ulcer pain. The connection is skin deep.

The causative link has been shown to you repeatedly. It's fundamental physics that CO2 absorbs longwave infrared radiation. Where do you suggest that this energy goes?
 
I've shown you this before, yet you keep asking. When I show you, you just dismiss the source as AGW propaganda. Why should I go through the effort? You'll just dismiss it without even reading it because you're biased against any source that favors AGW. You've literally admitted that.



You blame man but can not prove what part of rise is natural and what part is man. Just like you can't say if temp will decrease if pollution is less. You statement on this is all about your opinions not facts.


Just like we are being told the sea level is rising. I just posted a link that a peer reviewed paper says no sea level increase in last 100 years.
 
The causative link has been shown to you repeatedly. It's fundamental physics that CO2 absorbs longwave infrared radiation. Where do you suggest that this energy goes?

Is it as true as the sea level is rising which I just showed is false
 
You blame man but can not prove what part of rise is natural and what part is man. Just like you can't say if temp will decrease if pollution is less. You statement on this is all about your opinions not facts.


Just like we are being told the sea level is rising. I just posted a link that a peer reviewed paper says no sea level increase in last 100 years.

That's not what your paper said.
 
I understand it says something other than what you were told it says.

Yet you do not explain it. it says decelerations which means a decrease not an increase

Our analyses do not indicate acceleration in sea level in U.S. tide gauge records during the 20th century. Instead, for each time period we consider, the records show small decelerations that are consistent with a number of earlier studies of worldwide-gauge records.
 
Back
Top Bottom