The time for UBI is fast approaching. We are unprepared for it.

[reinaert]

"Global Empire"?

The poster has a whole Anglo-Saxon benevolent, enlightening empire thing.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

In fairness, there is truth in that this is in-part because no other country is like the US. We're managing a global empire, Denmark is a completely geopolitically irrelevant country with no responsibilities outside of its borders. There are other historical and demographic realities that the US contends with which other countries in Europe do not.

And just generally speaking, I'm assuming that most people who bitch about the quality of life in America compared to Europe have just literally never been to Europe. Educated people in the American Midwest - as far as middle classes go - probably have the best quality of life on the planet and it's not even really close. There might be exceptions for countries like Saudi Arabia which subsidize their population with oil money, but the broader point is people tend to be overcritical of quality of life here and I suspect all of the bitching comes from over socialization from the internet and social media.

And if it needs to be said, that obviously doesn't mean it couldn't be better. It's just valuable to keep some perspective on these issues.

We can't have universal healthcare because . . .

We can't pay a living wage because . . .

We can't have affordable housing because . . .

We can't have better quality public schools because . . .

We can't have cleaner air and water because . . .

 

[BabaVoss]

We can't have universal healthcare because . . .

We can't pay a living wage because . . .

We can't have affordable housing because . . .

We can't have better quality public schools because . . .

We can't have cleaner air and water because . . .

We have become a nation of "can't" people. We didn't start out that way.

.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

We have become a nation of "can't" people. We didn't start out that way.

.

The creation of publicly traded multinational corporations is what is leading to our downfall. The boards of directors must answer to the shareholders every quarter (90 days!) and must show maximum ROI. Clean air, good schools do not fit into that timeframe. The shareholders want their dividend, and they don't give a rat's ass where it comes from.

 

[reinaert]

The creation of publicly traded multinational corporations is what is leading to our downfall. The boards of directors must answer to the shareholders every quarter (90 days!) and must show maximum ROI. Clean air, good schools do not fit into that timeframe. The shareholders want their dividend, and they don't give a rat's ass where it comes from.

...with non-revocable charters and multi-sector holding company schemes.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The reason that universal basic income keeps coming up is not the argument that it reduces work incentive, but that we already see harm to work incentive because of the increasing wealth divide between the top earners and everyone else. We keep seeing headwinds for the middle class, the middle three income quintiles, and the more the wealthy find ways to need less labor *but* demand the economy buy more and at higher expense from them then the only alternative is universal basic income.

Purely from an economic model based on consumer spending (which we have,) without income then the wealthy enjoying needing less workers will find themselves with also less customers.

 

[BabaVoss]

UBI is nothing more than wide-spread legitimatized stigma-free lifetime welfare. Even if we could live like that would we want to? part of the challenge in life is to make yourself useful to yourself and others. Without challenge, there's no accomplishment. Without accomplishment, we can meet our full potential.

No, not welfare.
Read up.
We will get to a point where there will not be enough jobs. Period. What then?
We have an economy based on people living and spending money.
Between technology advancements, automation, and AI, we will no longer need or want to have poverty. But we wont have enough jobs.
The presumption that a minimal income makes people sit back and lose all desire to work, progress, and accomplish is an uninformed one.

 

[reinaert]

No, not welfare.
Read up.
We will get to a point where there will not be enough jobs. Period. What then?
We have an economy based on people living and spending money.
Between technology advancements, automation, and AI, we will no longer need or want to have poverty. But we wont have enough jobs.
The presumption that a minimal income makes people sit back and lose all desire to work, progress, and accomplish is an uninformed one.

If their argument had any foundation, they would be able to demonstrate that all people who have college paid for by their parents, or an inheritance from a grandmother, or are given their first job in a family firm, become indolent failures.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Here are a few reasons why putting everyone on welfare is one of the worst left wing ideas ever:

1) Giving millionaires and billionaires welfare checks is really dumb.

2) It would double the entire federal budget.

3) You think inflation is bad now?

4) Once people get used to "free money," it becomes politically impossible to take it away. That means permanent dependency and ever-rising costs, just like other entitlements - but on steroids.

I don't agree with this. The republican party is doing a pretty good job of doing that right now.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Despite the frantic mewling about “free stuff’ that political extremists repeat, the time is coming.

Hers an AI overview of why we need to be planning and preparing for the coming need for Universal Basic Income;

UBI makes sense as a way to reduce poverty and inequality, simplify complex welfare systems, support individuals in a changing economy (due to automation), and provide economic security and dignity. It gives people more freedom to choose their path, such as retraining, starting businesses, or caring for family, and can stimulate the economy by increasing demand from lower-income households.

It's going to be tied to LOYALTY, therefore in that scenario, let it continue to lie fallow.
I would rather starve to death than bleat "all hail dear leader" for a slice of bread.
See @Stealers Wheel's comment for further.

 

[The AntiDonald]

No, not welfare.
Read up.
We will get to a point where there will not be enough jobs. Period. What then?

I have it on reliable sources that conservatives don't give a shit. Can't afford to live, then die. They don't care.

We have an economy based on people living and spending money.
Between technology advancements, automation, and AI, we will no longer need or want to have poverty. But we wont have enough jobs.
The presumption that a minimal income makes people sit back and lose all desire to work, progress, and accomplish is an uninformed one.

 

[Jay59]

The time for UBI is fast approaching.

It isn't.

We are unprepared for it.

Good.

It's a horrible idea.

Despite the frantic mewling about “free stuff’ that political extremists repeat, the time is coming.

Hers an AI overview of why we need to be planning and preparing for the coming need for Universal Basic Income;

UBI makes sense as a way to reduce poverty and inequality, simplify complex welfare systems, support individuals in a changing economy (due to automation), and provide economic security and dignity. It gives people more freedom to choose their path, such as retraining, starting businesses, or caring for family, and can stimulate the economy by increasing demand from lower-income households.

Here are the main reasons UBI makes sense:

• Reduces Poverty and Inequality:
  By providing a financial floor, UBI can lift people out of poverty and significantly reduce income inequality, improving both physical and mental health outcomes for individuals.
  
  
• Simplifies Welfare Systems:
  UBI could replace many existing, complex, and often confusing welfare programs, making them simpler and more efficient while ensuring no one falls through the cracks due to administrative hurdles.
  
  
• Provides Economic Security in a Changing Job Market:
  With the rise of automation and AI, many jobs may be eliminated. UBI offers a safety net, providing a reliable income stream independent of employment status.
  
  
• Empowers Individuals:
  A basic income gives people the freedom and stability to say no to exploitative jobs, pursue education or training, start their own businesses, or care for family members without the constant fear of financial destitution.
  
  
• Stimulates the Economy:
  Giving money to everyone, especially those with lower incomes, is likely to increase overall consumer demand, as lower-income individuals have a higher propensity to spend, boosting economic activity.
  
  
• Fulfills a Basic Need for Dignity:
  UBI is seen as a way to ensure everyone can meet their basic needs for housing, food, and other necessities, providing a more dignified existence than complex, conditional welfare systems.
  
  
• Rewards Work and Investment:
  Unlike some welfare programs, UBI is unconditional, meaning people are not penalized for taking on more work or earning higher incomes. This encourages individuals to invest in their skills and careers.

Universal poverty is not a good thing.

 

[aociswundumho]

I have it on reliable sources that conservatives don't give a shit. Can't afford to live, then die. They don't care.

You are very "caring" when it comes to other people's money. What percentage of your own money do you donate to the poor?

 

[BabaVoss]

You are very "caring" when it comes to other people's money. What percentage of your own money do you donate to the poor?

This isn't about "donating" anything. It is about sharing the wealth we collectively have, as a nation, to a small degree, in order to ensure that all citizens can have a decent - if minimal - quality of life.
It's not a charity idea. It is a idea to make things better.
It's about making our society better, raising the floor.
We can afford it.
Don't you want a world where poverty is less than it is now?
Where a minimal life is better than it is now for those at the bottom?
If not, why not?

.

 

[Deuce]

UBI is nothing more than wide-spread legitimatized stigma-free lifetime welfare. Even if we could live like that would we want to? part of the challenge in life is to make yourself useful to yourself and others. Without challenge, there's no accomplishment. Without accomplishment, we can meet our full potential.

If you had UBI, would you just sit around all day and watch TV?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

The time will NEVER come for UBI. Quit having wet dreams about it.

Fine reasoning by Moderate Right, as always.

 

[justoneman]

Start over. UBI is NOT “puttying everyone own welfare.”

Why is it not putting everyone on welfare?

 

[BabaVoss]

The time is coming.
We can either plan for it or not.
So far, we are not.
It would be much better for everyone if we plan for it.

 

[BabaVoss]

Why is it not putting everyone on welfare?

Read the OP.

 

[aociswundumho]

This isn't about "donating" anything. It is about sharing the wealth we collectively have,

We don't "collectively" have it, it's owned by individuals. Why aren't you redistributing your own wealth if it's such a great idea?

as a nation, to a small degree, in order to ensure that all citizens can have a decent - if minimal - quality of life.
It's not a charity idea. It is a idea to make things better.
It's about making our society better, raising the floor.
We can afford it.
Don't you want a world where poverty is less than it is now?
Where a minimal life is better than it is now for those at the bottom?
If not, why not?

Because stupid commie redistribution shit like this has be tried in one form or another dozens of times and the result is always the same. When you start robbing people, they leave. That's why leftist countries always need to build walls and fences and guard towers to keep people from escaping.

 

[justoneman]

This isn't about "donating" anything. It is about sharing the wealth we collectively have, as a nation, to a small degree, in order to ensure that all citizens can have a decent - if minimal - quality of life.
.

Oh I see. Communism.

 

[justoneman]

......
The presumption that a minimal income makes people sit back and lose all desire to work, progress, and accomplish is an uninformed one.

My presumption is it makes more and more people sit back, watch TV and drink Brawndo.

 

[CimpleMan]

Conservatives, you can take MY MONEY when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Always about MY money....

 

[cpwill]

Full Disclosure: I have long supported a Negative Income Tax, which is supposed to share many of the benefits that @BabaVoss listed out for a UBI in his OP.

I would like to point out as well that UBI is not only a left-wing position: it is Charles Murray's as well.

However, the broad evidence coming back from UBI experiments has been decidedly mixed, and not exactly overwhelmingly positive.

I think we have to keep "work" in the picture, and not expect that we can do all that much to help poor people (whose suffering is often driven from their own choices) by just giving them the kinds of UBI that we could afford to.

 

[Cameron]

The arguments for UBI are, IMO, overly theoretical and ends-oriented bullshit by people who feel like they deserve other people's money but don't have the work ethic or skills to actually earn it. Perhaps things will be different in the distant future, when robots and AI do all of the work for humanity and human labor is simply a hobby, but that time is far off yet.