The Statues of Unliberty

[Grand Mal]

Nope...

Let's burn every book period and write new ones that only have approved history in them!!

That is better.

All history is 'approved' history. You're a teacher, you should know that.
Or did you mean that different people will do the approving?

 

[Grand Mal]

Except that it's not. Book burnings are the next logical step. After that, jail time for anyone who speaks of the confederacy in a positive light!!!!!

All kidding aside, where does leftist fauxrage end? Answer, it DOESN'T.

Looks to me like the leftist and the rightist 'fauxrage' are running about parallel. Maybe they both end at the same place.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The Confederates were traitors, and the Confederates were slaveholders looking to preserve that evil institution . . .

But they weren't "authoritarians." They weren't fascists or Nazis. So no, it's not "tribute to the same authoritarian forces" the Congressional leaders denounced.

That's not historical trivia; it's historical truth, and if you treat historical truth with such disdain, I have to wonder what your motivations actually are.

History both good and bad should be preserved.

I believe the OP would encourage book burning...

 

[Bodi]

All history is 'approved' history. You're a teacher, you should know that.
Or did you mean that different people will do the approving?

I meant history approved by our newly beloved "History Cops" from the "We Need To Sanitize Out What Actually Happened to What a White Washed Version Should Be Department."

 

[Grand Mal]

History both good and bad should be preserved.

I believe the OP would encourage book burning...

That's not the question. The question is, should history both good and bad be honoured with statues? Having a statue of yourself in the Congress building is quite an honour. The question is, have those Confederate leaders earned it.
What do you think?

 

[Grand Mal]

I meant history approved by our newly beloved "History Cops" from the "We Need To Sanitize Out What Actually Happened to What a White Washed Version Should Be Department."

Is that what this is about? See, I thought it was about whether or not the leaders of the Confederacy have earned the honour of having a statue in the Congress building. It is quite an honour, usually reserved for people who's accomplishments are worthy of recognition.

 

[The Mark]

Except that it's not. Book burnings are the next logical step. After that, jail time for anyone who speaks of the confederacy in a positive light!!!!!

All kidding aside, where does leftist fauxrage end? Answer, it DOESN'T.

I don't want history destroyed, but we must understand ALL the context and aspects of it.

Leaders of the Confederacy fought to keep a system that enslaved fellow humans. To have statues of those leaders, many put in place during an era that continued the repression of those who had been enslaved, remain on public grounds, especially at places supposedly devoted to justice and the democratic process...

I can only imagine what that makes decedents of those who were enslaved and oppressed feel like.

Not good, I imagine.

Edit: I should say that I'd be fine with such monuments in the right context - but the context of how those individuals repressed other humans must be acknowledged. And it doesn't stop just with the confederacy and slavery, but that's a loooong topic.

 

[chuckiechan]

Riight. And you weren't, with that 'are the blacks better off yet' drive-by.

The argument is about statues of confederates who fought partly to keep slavery. The legacy of slavery brought us the black population, 53% or so are still below middle class income. You cannot divorce blacks from what is happening to slave history in the USA.

 

[vegas giants]

The argument is about statues of confederates who fought partly to keep slavery. The legacy of slavery brought us the black population, 53% or so are still below middle class income. You cannot divorce blacks from what is happening to slave history in the USA.

We should also not honor those that fought for slavery

 

[Lord of Planar]

That's not the question. The question is, should history both good and bad be honoured with statues? Having a statue of yourself in the Congress building is quite an honour. The question is, have those Confederate leaders earned it.
What do you think?

That its a matter of opinion.

A statute is a physical form of history.

Keep in mind also, too many people are applying today's standards to the past. Standards change with time. At least look at the context of their situations of the past.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Edit: I should say that I'd be fine with such monuments in the right context - but the context of how those individuals repressed other humans must be acknowledged. And it doesn't stop just with the confederacy and slavery, but that's a loooong topic.

At the same time they supported a system we consider evil, they also were advocates of the 10th amendment.

 

[Grand Mal]

The argument is about statues of confederates who fought partly to keep slavery. The legacy of slavery brought us the black population, 53% or so are still below middle class income. You cannot divorce blacks from what is happening to slave history in the USA.

Which would you prefer, below middle-class income or slavery? Is there actually any circumstance that would be worse than slavery?
That said, this is about honouring the leaders of the Confederacy with statues. Statues in a Federal government building. Does what they did earn them this honour?

 

[Lord of Planar]

We should also not honor those that fought for slavery

Did they fight for slavery, or because they were afraid sudden changes would cripple them?

Just saying. Don't focus on one of several points.

 

[Tigerace117]

It is part of American history. You are arguing to erase from history things that you don't like. That is a really bad idea.

Nobody is going to forget what the Civil War was, or that it happened, because we remove statues to the Confederacy. If that were the case nobody in Eastern Europe would know who Stalin was.

 

[vegas giants]

Did they fight for slavery, or because they were afraid sudden changes would cripple them?

Just saying. Don't focus on one of several points.

They fought for slavery. There are no statues to hitler either

 

[Grand Mal]

That its a matter of opinion.

A statute is a physical form of history.

Keep in mind also, too many people are applying today's standards to the past. Standards change with time. At least look at the context of their situations of the past.

What's your opinion? Did those Confederate leaders earn the honour of having a statue in a Federal government building? What they did, was it an accomplishment that deserves this recognition?
I'm not sure, but I think I remember that the Civil War killed more Americans than any other war. If that matters.

 

[Lord of Planar]

They fought for slavery. There are no statues to hitler either

Like always... so narrow minded...

There was more to the civil war than just slavery. Slavery was wrong, but just one of several "states rights": issues guaranteed by the constitution.

 

[vegas giants]

Like always... so narrow minded...

There was more to the civil war than just slavery. Slavery was wrong, but just one of several "states rights": issues guaranteed by the constitution.

Yeah and if they won slavery would have continued. So for the slaves I would say it was a pretty important issue

 

[chuckiechan]

Which would you prefer, below middle-class income or slavery? Is there actually any circumstance that would be worse than slavery?
That said, this is about honouring the leaders of the Confederacy with statues. Statues in a Federal government building. Does what they did earn them this honour?

Circular arguments I don't do.

 

[chuckiechan]

We should also not honor those that fought for slavery

How do you know what they were fighting for? Most were poor farmers.

 

[Moderate Right]

So by your own evaluation of who these people were, should we have statues of traitors in the Halls of Congress?

Everyone connected with the Revolutionary War were traitors.

 

[vegas giants]

How do you know what they were fighting for? Most were poor farmers.

I don't think we have to worry about statues of poor farmers

 

[chuckiechan]

I don't think we have to worry about statues of poor farmers

The privates do most of the fighting and dying.

 

[Grand Mal]

Circular arguments I don't do.

Nothing circular going on. I just asked if those Confederate leaders earned the honour of having statues in a Federal government building. That's what this is all about. Should those statues be there?
See, I think you get a statue of yourself if you've done something that deserves recognition. That sound right to you?

 

[vegas giants]

The privates do most of the fighting and dying.

Yeah. And the generals should have known better